Gojirra99

I think it was Toyota's plan to establish Lexus in the largest car market in the world - N.America first, before Europe, which they will put more emphasis on in the coming years. I do think they have to make their cars more sporty if they want to be as successful there as they are here in such a short period of time.
Toyota has the financial resouces to compete with anyone and succeed. The only thing that will hamper Lexus as a luxury brand is that Toyota may be more interested in making money than making cars that give them bragging rights. Lexus cars' profit per unit is much better than Mercedes, but they seem to have little interest as of now, in making low volume limited production cars like AMG's and M's and V12's because the returns are low, but those are the kind of cars that excites some rich people,and help the brand's image.

billalbert

I found this pic several days ago Which one will it be?

lexusls430

Yup yours will most likely be it just a more agressive bumper and lights dont listen to them there is not major redesign.

E55AMG

The trouble with brand-image is that it can change nearly instantaneously. Let's not forget that Cadillacs and Lincolns reigned supreme in the 60's and into much of the 70's. Gas crisis, and boom, those little Hondas that dealers couldn't move at all start to have long waiting lists. The fact of the matter is, Mercedes and BMW's lack of reliability is becoming a serious problem. I know of several families that owned only MB/BMWs and then switched in the past 5 years to Lexus, swearing up and down that they'd never buy another German car due to their lack of reliability. We, on most of the automotive boards, are a minority -- I personally don't mind having to take my car to the dealership. I get to shoot the breeze with the service guys, get the pulse of the dealership, take a look at the new models, but that's not the case with the vast majority of people. Yes, Mercedes does innovate new technology in their cars, but Lexus follows suit almost immediately. But the problem does not lie in the new technology -- the W211's have problems with their MOTOR MOUNTS, WHEEL ALIGNMENT and the RADIO. Come on -- distronic is great, but try to get the motor mount right, for crying out loud!! Look at the LS430/LS400 forum here -- unlike the W211 board, not every other post is about something breaking in their BRAND NEW car. Of course, the early 90's Lexi seem to have some issues, but hey, after 6-10 years, big surprise. Longevity of Mercedes? Hah! I had to replace my instrument cluster three times in the first year of ownership of my W210. Not very confidence inspiring.

Furthermore Lexus, for the most part, doesn't just re-badge Toyotas. I would like you to point out the Toyota LS430 or the Toyota GS430. The ES300, the LX470 and the GX470 may share a platform with a corresponding Toyota model, but for 90% of the public, they neither know nor care that they're driving a "Toyota." Nor do their corresponding Toyota platforms look exactly the same -- we're not talking "Plymouth" and "Dodge" Neon. And let's not forget the Chrysler Crossfire that's coming out. Resorting to the brand name/reputation, in my opinion, is also a lame excuse for saying one car or line is better than another. We're talking about cars -- new cars trump the old. Some may wax nostalgic over the Mercedes Gullwings, but take 'em to the track and those cars hold nothing over an SL55.

Having said all of this, my new '04 E55 is arriving in September. I don't care about the reliability, I don't care about having to go to the dealership -- I like the way it looks and its sheer speed.

brian3268

Abcedefghij

S55inPA

hey everyone,

this is really a good discussion.
when the Lexus brand was announced years ago i was thrilled. being in my 20's and a japanese auto fanatic i was anxious to see a japanese brand thump the snotty germans. i owned a bunch of honda's, toyota's, mitusu's, and acura's(15 new auto's in all). then as i got older..mid 30's the japanese brands were missing something. either they didn't have attractive sheet metal of if they did they then lacked the horsepower i was looking for??? (i really loved the mid generation ls's). so i took a look at the german manufacturers. MB had everything i was looking for. granted the MB"s were a little more expensive but....i wanted attractive sheet metal, good handling, strong power, and great safety. acura, infiniti, and lexus just were not up to this task. so with me...that is were the japanese brands ran out of gas. they just couldn't take it to the next level. and still to this day 5 years later i don't see anything that lexus is doing that makes me think that they are going to reach that level of distinction. strangely though infiniti is taking the shot that lexus should be.

on the reliability front. lets face it guys all auto's today from my GMC pickup to MB's are built well. i have had 4 MB's so far and not had anything major go wrong with them or for that fact many minor things. when you go to MB world and Club Lexus both have posts referring to service problems. the one thing i notice most is that the posters who own MB'S get more angry when they do have a problem. it seems they hold MB to an almost impossible standard.

keep this in mind also. right now lexus only has 3 of it's own distinct vehicles in the US....the gs and ls and the is.
compare that to all of the models MB manufactures and you've got one hell of a difference in your product lines. lexus should be able to support that small amount of product and support it well.

remember....i was hoping for more in the next ls much like many of you. lexus has the resources to make any kind of car they want. i just don't understand why they seem to miss the target with buyers like me?

2jzgte

I think Cadillac needs to go in the market and beat the snot out of everyone, history repeats itself.
I've driven all of my dad's Ls's and I understand why they are liked.
I drive his 750il, a lot but even that car has problems.
The a8 isn't all you think it's cracked up to be either.
But I drove the neighbor's turbo CTS, and now I'm ready to sell that old LS400. My Supra may have found a worthy garage mate. Lexus sells so many LS units compared to Sclasses and 7's because they are downmarket. This is a good thing, the last scenario I want is everyone having my Sclass etc. But Lexus better watch out, look at sales of the Eclass. It was heralded as a near perfect car for it's time by many critics and MB sold a lot, both internationally and in the US. Then for the redesign they went mild, now new Eclasses are sitting on dealers lots with crazy incentives. Sometimes it pays to go bolder, but like the BMW 3series redesign, sometimes it does not.

S55inPA

i've been trying to dig up some sales statistics.
so far the only one i have been able to find is on wardsauto.com.
at this site they list the S class as selling 29700 units through may of this year.
also they list the S class as having 43% of the world market for high end luxury autos.
if anyone knows where else to get some reliable data that would be great.

Manaray

If all things were equal except for the exterior design of the cars, I would take the new "facelifted" S-Class over a LS430. However, I don't like the new S-Class's looks so much more that I'd pay more money and have to deal with MB's unreliablity and dealer attitude.

E55AMG was right on when he said that MB needs to get the motor mounts correct...

S55inPA - I browse some of the other brand boards and I'd have to disagree with you on the reliablity front. I see a lot more "problem" posts (with newer cars no less) on the MB and BMW boards then on here. Most of the problems on here tend to be with older Lexus cars...and GMC trucks...hehehe, don't even get me started...my buddy bought a brand new 2002 GMC and the first day, the trim around the doorlocks fell off...turns out it's a OVERLY common problem and there is no fix nor does GMC care (they haven't responded to him at all and the dealer has nothing to offer).

However, I do agree that Lexus needs to spice it up (but not the way BMW did with Chris Bangle....somebody kill that guy already...he screwed up the new 5 series real good!). The LS430 is rather boring and if that is the "facelift", it's a very sad facelift. Lexus is at a point where they can take a little risk in terms of design and I think they should...but Toyota is a VERY conservative brand...

They need to make the next GS just BAD ***...the next LS should be something every age range wants, not just 53 year old white guys....