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LS400 employs smooth plastic front wheel.arch liners that do an excellent job of preventing ingress of water and road grime into the interior of fender well but do not perform adequately as sound barriers/ absorbers (radiated tire noise).as do contemporary Lexus fibererous wheel well liners.
On the LS400, at 40 MPH, there is a barely discernible tire roar, which becomes more apparent at highway speeds...especially on concrete surfaces or old asphalt...never mind rain water noise at any speed.
Am assembling butyl sandwiched with vinyl barrier to addrress this on the tire. side.
Before proceeding, anyone with constructive input?
I usually turn up my fantastic Lexus Premium Sound system with factory subwoofer and enjoy the tunes. Not to mention I deleted my rear mufflers for the added growl to the V8.
But being serious, how old are your tires? if they're over 2-3 years old, you'd gain a noticeable reduction in tire noise by replacing with a new set of tires. I upgraded my 4 yr old Yokohama YK580 all seasons on my 93 Accord with some Michelin Pilot Supersports and even going from an all season to a ultra high performance summer tire, the road noise was diminished greatly. The other Yokos weren't worn either, they had 7-8 32nds tread remaining. Maybe the Michelins are that good though, they're certainly the stickiest tire I've ever had.
I usually turn up my fantastic Lexus Premium Sound system with factory subwoofer and enjoy the tunes. Not to mention I deleted my rear mufflers for the added growl to the V8.
But being serious, how old are your tires? if they're over 2-3 years old, you'd gain a noticeable reduction in tire noise by replacing with a new set of tires. I upgraded my 4 yr old Yokohama YK580 all seasons on my 93 Accord with some Michelin Pilot Supersports and even going from an all season to a ultra high performance summer tire, the road noise was diminished greatly. The other Yokos weren't worn either, they had 7-8 32nds tread remaining. Maybe the Michelins are that good though, they're certainly the stickiest tire I've ever had.
Tires are new.
Before beginning project am seeking input from anyone who has treated their plastic wheel well arches..
The challenge faced with reducing NVH in one area, it becomess more noticeable elsewhere..
So your suggestion to turn up the music makes that point, albeit in the opposite direction...and reducing NVH elsewhere allows you to lower the volume on the radio.
Am now focusing on front wheel wells...a fair amount of radiated tire-roadway noise.
Yodaone, I enjoy you're posts. You're going to have the most refined 98 LS400 in existence.
I'm wondering if over time the extra weight might overwhelm the plastic clips and the wheel liner tabs. I wonder if it might not be better to remove the liner and add the material to the inner fender sheet metal. I would think the most effective place would be on the firewall since that's where you want to block the sound but it's also the toughest to reach.
I think you were right to address the rear wheel tubs and the area under the rear seat first. The sound from the rear wheels has a much more direct path into the interior.
I've found a quick spritz of WD-40 on the knife made cutting the butyl easier. Without it the butyl started to stick to the blade.
There are high quality materials like what you are using and cheaper mass market options. The difference between the two is mostly the adhesive. For vertical panels like doors or areas where you want to be sure the material stays where you put it use the boom mat or equivalent. When it comes time to do the floors you can use the cheaper stuff because it just lays there. In my car I covered the whole floor with the cheaper stuff and added a second layer of the good stuff over the transmission tunnel and the foot wells.
You might want to find an app that measures sound levels to see if there is a measurable difference.
Yodaone, I enjoy you're posts. You're going to have the most refined 98 LS400 in existence.
I'm wondering if over time the extra weight might overwhelm the plastic clips and the wheel liner tabs. I wonder if it might not be better to remove the liner and add the material to the inner fender sheet metal. I would think the most effective place would be on the firewall since that's where you want to block the sound but it's also the toughest to reach.
I think you were right to address the rear wheel tubs and the area under the rear seat first. The sound from the rear wheels has a much more direct path into the interior.
I've found a quick spritz of WD-40 on the knife made cutting the butyl easier. Without it the butyl started to stick to the blade.
There are high quality materials like what you are using and cheaper mass market options. The difference between the two is mostly the adhesive. For vertical panels like doors or areas where you want to be sure the material stays where you put it use the boom mat or equivalent. When it comes time to do the floors you can use the cheaper stuff because it just lays there. In my car I covered the whole floor with the cheaper stuff and added a second layer of the good stuff over the transmission tunnel and the foot wells.
You might want to find an app that measures sound levels to see if there is a measurable difference.
I'm looking forward to your results.
1999 ls400
The plastic clips should not be affected by two or three pounds of damping material...(clinging snow and ice easilyweighs more)
The closer you place materials to the source of NVH, the better the results.(it is more fully contained)
The manufacturer is sending materials that are specifically designed for the wheel side of plastic fender well arch. not aluminum barrier on butyl, but vinyl on 2.5mm butyl with high tack adhesive that will durably adhere to the plastic liner.
So the barrier/damping material will be placed closest to the source...
The inner front fenders have had damping material applied:
So the information relating to the front fender treatment is buried in the post because the title suggests door panels.
So far have added about 42 - 45 pounds of material..
When finished with roof, fender well liners and package tray, anticipate adding total 60-65 pounds.
Haven't determined best treatment for the hood and trunk....increased weight is a real problem and will likely overwhelm gas struts.. have to be careful with under hood heat...not a great place for butyl or asphalt based anything.
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The manufacturer is sending materials that are specifically designed for the wheel side of plastic fender well arch. not aluminum barrier on butyl, but vinyl on 2.5mm butyl with high tack adhesive that will durably adhere to the plastic liner.
Meaning it sticks to the outside of the fender well? Interesting...
Meaning it sticks to the outside of the fender well? Interesting...
BOOM MAT FLEX DAMP 2.5mm material applied to fender well tire side.
The fender well side could also be treated....
This Flex Damp material consists of butyl with a vinyl barrier (vs aluminum barrier-which is not appropriate for tire side) and high tack pressure sensitive adhesive making it ideal for application to the plastic fender well liner.
Removing the tire and plastic fender well.liner makes the job much easier...it also allows access for adding 4mm Boom Mat to inside fender..
Thoroughly cleaning plastic surface is important for proper adhesion.
The Flex Damp adheres well to plastic fender liner contours, but be careful.to avoid air pockets...should you encounter one...use tip of your side cutter to permeate the surface to allow air to escape.
If familiar with fender well liner removal, then damping the fender with 4mm Boom Mat AND the fender liner rwith 2.5mm Flex Damp required 3 hours.
Required 4 sheets of 12" Flex Damp for liner (3 pounds) and one and a half 12.5" X 24"" of 4mm sheets for fender (5 pounds))
The results were more noticeable at highway speeds, but discernible at lower speeds.
Higher frequency reflected noise emanating fron wheel.wwll was reduced but not entirely eliminated
Fendef Panel flutter was noticeably reduced.
Overall much quieter.
Boom Mat Flex Damp Material
Flex Damp material depicting vinyl barrier.
Image depicting fender well removed
Another angle of fender well after cleaning.
Flex Damp material in process of application to fender well. Did not use paper templates as sheets applied easily, laid well and trimming on only one end.. (sunlight creates oily look on vinyl barrier)
Upon removing plastic fender well liner, found this improperly sealed through hole to fender....
A view of the area
The solution ..4mm Boom Mat.
Applied to hole...If necessaryl butyl ring can be removed
Thanks for posting this and telling us what results you're hearing. It would be fascinating to take a ride in an unmodified '99 followed by the same trip in your car to hear the cumulative affect of all your work.
Tire noise reduction with fiber exterior wheel well arch liners
Originally Posted by GoldLex99
Thanks for posting this and telling us what results you're hearing. It would be fascinating to take a ride in an unmodified '99 followed by the same trip in your car to hear the cumulative affect of all your work.
Thanks again,
John
Located this informative PDF suggesting fiber wheel well arch liners reduce tire noise.
Well I decided on buying boat bunk board carpeting to apply on the inner fender liners. I'll put cld tiles and mlv with ccf on the inner liner, rather than the tire side. Remember that you only need 25% coverage with cld tiles on a panel, 100% percent coverage is a waste of time and will not yield an improvement.
Last year I treated the right fender plastic wheel well liner with DEI Boom Mat Flex Damp material.
It has durably adhered to the tire side of the wheel well liner over extreme.temperature cycling (-20 Fahrenheit) and humidity.
It reduced tire and road noise at highway speeds. (Right side treated was quieter than left side not)
Today I treated the left side wheel well liner.
Removal of wheel.well liner allows for necessary cleaning and easiest application of Boom Mat material.
Besides removal of wheel well, the only tool required is a scissors.
Several images of the project.
Order #050227 - ten pieces, five required to cover both sides. Wheel well liner after cleaning. Removal of wax release paper.
Damping material.easily conforms to the contours of fender liner. Apply in a smoothing motion working from one side to the other to avoid air pockets. If air is trapped, simply release by using a pick to pierce material. Material works well Finished...
08-20-18 | 06:26 PM
Sound dampening front plastic wheel well arches
