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Re-booting the CV joint - mother of all discussions
Hi all,
I could write a research paper on CV joints, that's how much I've been studying about them... yet, I still don't know all that I want to know.
But, in case anyone is reading this and doesn't know which way to go when they discover their front or rear CV boots are shot (or worse - joints making noises or vibrations), the question comes up: do I replace only the boot(s) if the joint is good otherwise, or should I replace the whole axle, when it's quite cheap to buy one these days.
Here is my reasoning:
- When one needs new CV joint/axle, there are three options:
1. If the boot just started leaking recently (sometimes it can leak through microscopic holes, it does not even have to have a big tear in it!), but the joint is good and there is no dirt inside, the most sensible thing to do would be to remove the old boots, remove the old grease (I know of at least one case where the grease became liquid and old and was not doing its job any more!), pack it with new grease, put on the new boots and clamp them properly. Install, and you should be good to go for at least another 10-20 yrs on our cars (LS)
2. If the axle is vibrating, the joint is gonners. Repacking it won't help, not that I know. In that case, you really need a new axle. But you can go with a used OEM one, which is in a good condition, and all you would have to do, is to repack it and reboot it. From that point on, just reinstall and you're good to go for a long time. Used axle is around $100, OEM, new aftermarket is about the same. I'd go for good OEM over aftermarket any time of the week.
3. Buy a new axle and be done with it quickly. Every mechanic (at least in San Francisco Bay area) will tell you to do this. "Buy an aftermarket axle!" like it's the holy grail of axles. What they don't tell you is that there is NO WAY IN HELL those aftermarket axles are anywhere near the OEM quality. Prove me wrong, and I will gladly apologize to whoever makes them as well as Lexus does (who makes theirs btw? Koyo? Someone else?) If you look up forums where they discuss axles, you will see plentyl of people complaining that after they put in an aftermarket or even reman CV joint, the thing started vibrating after few months and they were back in the shop, to their mechanic's delight. To me aftermarket is a no-go from the get-go. I cannot believe how many people recommend this, when it is obviious it is a short term solution and an introduction of a long term problem. If you install a bad axle (and many have complained that their new aftermarket axle started vibrating right away!), and are on a trip, you will be rattling your wheel hub and the bearings will get destroyed. I know, it happened to me- I ignored my vibrating CV joint for too long while I researched my options and now I can hear the bearing making slight noises.
4. Buy a new OEM axle and sell your kidney so you can afford it. This would be the best solution if only it was not so expensive.
- Most mechanics, virtually ALL in my area, will tell you to just get a new, aftermarket axle. (San Francisco Bay area, where everything is overpriced to the point of madness, and people love wasting money to car mechanics delight. It is a matter of regional pride to overpay for things, I kid you not) I tried calling around "axle specialists" and "CV joint doctors" and NONE of them will take a good, used axle and just repack it and re-install fresh, new, boots. They say "We don't do that any more" and hang up. If I read anywhere that a dealer may be able to do it, charges are ridiculous, like $400 per axle (to repack it and install new boots). I mean, I know the job is messy, but it is not exactly brain surgery and it certainly does not last four or five hours (besides, that's almost the price of an OEM axle)!
So far, this is what I have found:
- For our car, new boots are available. Two options: get them from Lexus, or discounted from lexuspartsnow, or from a place that makes really high quality boots: http://www.rockfordcv.com/Bootkit_li...s.htm#BK550-22 (550-22 is for 1st gen Lex, rear axle boots - both seem to be the same). I ordered mine OEM. I figure, if they can last 10 yrs, I'll be happy. Side note: on the boots themselves, on OEM ones that I have on the used axle, as well as on the new OEM, there is actually a part number, but you cannot find them by that part number, probably because they are sold as a package - including Toyota special grease, and clamps. Problems is, I have no idea how to install these clamps! It takes a special tool, but it is not the type that us normally used - the one that pinches them together and presses in the middle - one end is loose, and the tool needs to pull on it, bend it and cut it at the same time. I found something that seems to fit the purpose and is used by Toyota guys, but I'd like some pointers if anyone knows!
- There is more to study in the world of clamps than if you study the bible/kuran/whatever religion of your choice (can you tell I have been in the SF too long?). I mean - they can rot, if bad, they can be tightetened too much and cut the boot, they can go loose if weak, they can have edges that are filed round, so they don't cut into the rubber, they have millions of diffferent types each one requiring a different tool... The simple little clamp gave me a headache today. I am thinking of using the OEM one, but I need to know for sure: which tool goes with it, and how to install it properly without too little or too much pressure. No luck. If anyone knows, let me know!
- Packing the CV joint (and cleaning it). Ok, we all know this is a messy job. But, I believe it is nothing that a few sheets of paper towels and a can or two of break cleaner cannot do. Clean it up to sparkling clean, then squeeze in the new grease and you're good to go, I would hope. I would not mix new and old grease - they may be different types, and who knows what kind of reaction you can get that way. I was worried about compatibility of CV joint grease and CV boot rubber - that's why I ordered OEM, but they say that the special plastic they use at RockfordCV can take on most any grease. Don't know, just what I heard.
- So, in the end, the biggest challenge is - how do you put on the new clamps that will hold things properly!
BTW, front joints (that our cars don't have) typically wear faster than rear ones, since they do more while allowing for steering.
Rear left one is in a bad condition and vibrating, so I decided to try my luck and bought a used one from e-bay and that one came in great condition. Its boots are good, OEM, no leaking, no loose feeling anywhere (you can rotate mine probably 20-30 deg back and forth, that's how loose it is), so I could probably install it as-is, and be good for a while. Problem is, it is from on old LS, and it will go bad sooner rather than later. So I ordered a set of new OEM boots which comes with stainless steel clamps and two packs of grease. Now, all that's left is to remove the old boots, remove one or the other end from the shaft, and then clean old grease, re-pack it, put on the new boots and I will have a practically new axle.
I've never done this, so naturally, I am a little nervous. I figured out all the steps, but until I open it up, I won't really know for sure. I ordered those snap ring pliers or whatever they are called, and extra clamps also just in case... so we'll see.
BTW, the used axle did have oily residue on the axle itself, and the inner boot was greasy. So I am thinking it was leaking through old rubber, even if it was sealed and there were no tears.
1999 LS w/266K miles
My right outer boot is torn, I got a used axle and a boot w/ grease from Rockauto. Have yet to do it.
Is the inner axle cap supposed to be loose and secured only when you bolt it to the diff.?
If you're willing to ship your cores to this place, Phoenix Rack and Axle. I swear by them after I got my first set of CV halfshafts done on a 96' Honda Odyssey. They took my OEM 320+ mile Honda Odyssey driveshafts and gave me back OEM Honda Odyssey driveshafts. It even included a damper on the driver side that pretty much all aftermarket ones neglected to install onto their units, so just seeing that along put a smile on my face. They were only $150 too if I recall with core exchange.
I also used them for my 89' Accord SEi that I listed on Bring a Trailer that had 43k original miles. They rebooted both driveshafts for $100 and left the OEM paint markings as this is a collectors car, when you have that low mileage and rare trim package on a coupe, so I didn't want anything to be disturbed.
They ONLY do OEM remans, they don't accept any aftermarket junk or anything as cores. They also do really nice jobs on rack and pinions, as my 89' SEi needed one as well.
1999 LS w/266K miles
My right outer boot is torn, I got a used axle and a boot w/ grease from Rockauto. Have yet to do it.
Is the inner axle cap supposed to be loose and secured only when you bolt it to the diff.?
If I understood you well, the cap on the end is supposed to be taken off before you push the axle back into the differential. I think it's there only to protect those gears/bearings while the axle is out.
If you're willing to ship your cores to this place, Phoenix Rack and Axle. I swear by them after I got my first set of CV halfshafts done on a 96' Honda Odyssey. They took my OEM 320+ mile Honda Odyssey driveshafts and gave me back OEM Honda Odyssey driveshafts. It even included a damper on the driver side that pretty much all aftermarket ones neglected to install onto their units, so just seeing that along put a smile on my face. They were only $150 too if I recall with core exchange.
I also used them for my 89' Accord SEi that I listed on Bring a Trailer that had 43k original miles. They rebooted both driveshafts for $100 and left the OEM paint markings as this is a collectors car, when you have that low mileage and rare trim package on a coupe, so I didn't want anything to be disturbed.
They ONLY do OEM remans, they don't accept any aftermarket junk or anything as cores. They also do really nice jobs on rack and pinions, as my 89' SEi needed one as well.
Thank you Losiracer2 for the recommendation! I am already set up to tackle this myself, but if things go south, I may have to send it in. It will still be an OEM axle, jjust missing boots
I am the new owner of a 1998 ES300 with much to be done to the front end suspension and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Phoenix Rack & Axle had rebuilt OEM front axles for my car for only $59 and $69 each! AND they offer free shipping for the item and the core! I know this thread is about 10 years old but if you are a 2nd gen ES owner like myself this is a great alternative to the crappy aftermarket axles.
Truvoice1
98 Lexus ES300 155k
93 Saab 900T convertible 235k
82 Volvo 242DL 120k (needs a lot)
I am the new owner of a 1998 ES300 with much to be done to the front end suspension and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Phoenix Rack & Axle had rebuilt OEM front axles for my car for only $59 and $69 each! AND they offer free shipping for the item and the core! I know this thread is about 10 years old but if you are a 2nd gen ES owner like myself this is a great alternative to the crappy aftermarket axles.
Truvoice1
98 Lexus ES300 155k
93 Saab 900T convertible 235k
82 Volvo 242DL 120k (needs a lot)
Yep! they're great and still in business. I had some 01' Sienna OEM Toyota Axles w/ 249k rebuilt by them, turn around was same morning since I'm local, so I dropped off, had lunch and they were ready to go. The van is super smooth on the highway.
Still recommend them to this day to everyone that has a ripped, clicking or greasy mess with their halfshafts. They also overhaul Rack and Pinion systems as well and driveshafts if needed.
Bumping this thread - Both of my original rear CV axles are leaking from the boots and inboard joints, and I'm currently in the process of preparing to fully rebuild them (gaskets and all) since they haven't started showing signs of permanent wear or damage to the bearings.
The Rockford 550-22 boot kits are discontinued and can no longer be acquired for this car. A representative told me this morning that they threw away the mold due to no demand
RockAuto also shows Beck Arnley 103-2661 as the solution, but that was originally designed for the 1988-1993 Camry and the Lexus ES 250 (0443820040, 0443832060, 0443833012). I believe they are recommending it because it's a "close enough" fit, and Beck Arnley 103-2705 is no longer available.
EDIT: I am looking into other possible alternatives for boots
This is one of the biggest problems with this car as we continue to go on in years. Weird parts are going to continue going NLA. We're just now entering the phase where it isn't weird esoteric things like navigation electronics which are unique to the LS400... and we're moving into rubber and suspension components.
Some random parts are exempt because they are parts shared with a ****in Camry or whatever, but the LS400 has a lot of unique stuff.
When faced with component parts that are NLA, sometimes replacing the whole unit is the only viable alternative. But this opens up an entire different "can of worms", most times it just makes matters worse.
This won't work? I know the RA catalog is sometimes grossly incorrect.
06-08-19, 12:15 PM
Re-booting the CV joint - mother of all discussions
Phoenix Rack & Axle
