New-to-me 98, driveline vibration
07-24-19, 04:34 PM
#31
Racer
It’d be a fourth opinion by now 😅 the Lexus specialist I originally had it at couldn’t find anything, I called another drive train shop and they just said they couldn’t help me with it lol. Hard to find good quality shops around here but I know of a few other good import shops in town.
07-25-19, 01:39 PM
#33
Racer
07-26-19, 09:23 AM
#34
Well, I took it to a drive train specialist shop today and they didn’t want to do anything with it because they didn’t think it was bad enough yet. I guess I could throw more parts at it in the relentless pursuit back to perfection or just keep driving it 😅
Thanks for sharing your experience. Did you use an OEM or aftermarket center support?
Thanks for sharing your experience. Did you use an OEM or aftermarket center support?
09-02-19, 04:54 PM
#35
Rookie
Thread Starter
I used an aftermarket because I could not find an OEM one anywhere, but now I finally got OEM and will be replacing it soon. The aftermarket produced a whine as soon as it was installed - the same wine that my OEM made about a year before it started vibrating. So, my guess is that aftermarket is not meant to last a long time (although it had not produced any vibration yet, and it's been two years since, so...). It is made in the USA, and it's main part is: a bearing. When it comes to bearings, there are less than five companies in the entire world that I would trust to buy bearings from: SKF, Koyo, and maybe NSK. I am pretty sure this one has bearings of inferior quality, while Lexus OEM probably uses Koyo or similar.
05-21-20, 06:09 PM
#36
Rookie
Thread Starter
Update
Well, I finally found a shop willing to look into this vibration problem. There was cracking in the flex discs and a little play in the center support so it's getting new OEM flex discs and center support. They also found that the U-joint was suspect so they sent the drive shaft off to a drive line shop to be inspected, repaired and balanced as necessary. Can't wait to get the car back.
05-21-20, 08:03 PM
#37
Racer
Well, I finally found a shop willing to look into this vibration problem. There was cracking in the flex discs and a little play in the center support so it's getting new OEM flex discs and center support. They also found that the U-joint was suspect so they sent the drive shaft off to a drive line shop to be inspected, repaired and balanced as necessary. Can't wait to get the car back.
06-13-20, 03:36 PM
#38
Rookie
Thread Starter
The Saga Continues...
Finally got the car back, shop had to track down a good used drive shaft as the old one was deemed not serviceable. After the new drive shaft, flex discs and center support, the vibration has reduced, which I am happy about, but it is still present. I called the shop back and they recommended getting the tires road force balanced first, then moving to the rear axles next.
06-13-20, 06:54 PM
#39
Lexus Champion
Finally got the car back, shop had to track down a good used drive shaft as the old one was deemed not serviceable. After the new drive shaft, flex discs and center support, the vibration has reduced, which I am happy about, but it is still present. I called the shop back and they recommended getting the tires road force balanced first, then moving to the rear axles next.
06-13-20, 07:42 PM
#40
Rookie
Thread Starter
The u-joint was shot and the shop said it wasn’t repairable. There’s still a low pitched vibration that’s loudest between 50-60 mph under acceleration. I can’t think of anything else at this point other than the axles or the transmission. I’ve tried coasting in neutral and it persists so that seems unlikely. It’s driving me nuts, it either needs to get fixed or I’m getting rid of the car.
Last edited by relentLS; 06-13-20 at 07:59 PM.
06-21-20, 02:14 PM
#41
The u-joint was shot and the shop said it wasn’t repairable. There’s still a low pitched vibration that’s loudest between 50-60 mph under acceleration. I can’t think of anything else at this point other than the axles or the transmission. I’ve tried coasting in neutral and it persists so that seems unlikely. It’s driving me nuts, it either needs to get fixed or I’m getting rid of the car.
a) the driveshaft angle has to be dead nuts "0" between the front and rear shaft. This annoys the experts who mostly believe the American car axiom that a little deviation reduces wear in the u-joints. No, Toyota wants 0.
b) the factory installation uses different weight guibo disc bolts to finish the balancing. Who the frick indexes the bolts before they remove them?
c) the shafts are indexed to each other. If you have removed the shafts from each other, un-indexed, well, sorry.
d) the manual threatens you with all hell if you allow the driveshaft to articulate too much when it is off the car.
e) I balanced my own driveshaft with large hose clamps, four color dots and about 256 different variations of positions amongst the clamps. Ran the car on jack stands with no wheels or discs/calipers, exhaust system lowered onto a 2X4 on a floor jack. 40 mph was the primary imbalance period, 85-90 mph was the secondary imbalance period. Hot-*** exhaust system nearby made adjusting the clamps a tricky ordeal. The good news is that you CAN balance your own driveshaft to "un-noticeable vibrations" but keep your adjustment strategy documented!
It took me 30 miles of endless cruise control 40 and 80 on the jack stands, to balance it acceptably ...
Colin
Last edited by Amskeptic; 06-21-20 at 02:18 PM.
06-21-20, 03:15 PM
#42
Rookie
Thread Starter
That is the problem with a nice quiet car, the smallest deviations ...
a) the driveshaft angle has to be dead nuts "0" between the front and rear shaft. This annoys the experts who mostly believe the American car axiom that a little deviation reduces wear in the u-joints. No, Toyota wants 0.
b) the factory installation uses different weight guibo disc bolts to finish the balancing. Who the frick indexes the bolts before they remove them?
c) the shafts are indexed to each other. If you have removed the shafts from each other, un-indexed, well, sorry.
d) the manual threatens you with all hell if you allow the driveshaft to articulate too much when it is off the car.
e) I balanced my own driveshaft with large hose clamps, four color dots and about 256 different variations of positions amongst the clamps. Ran the car on jack stands with no wheels or discs/calipers, exhaust system lowered onto a 2X4 on a floor jack. 40 mph was the primary imbalance period, 85-90 mph was the secondary imbalance period. Hot-*** exhaust system nearby made adjusting the clamps a tricky ordeal. The good news is that you CAN balance your own driveshaft to "un-noticeable vibrations" but keep your adjustment strategy documented!
It took me 30 miles of endless cruise control 40 and 80 on the jack stands, to balance it acceptably ...
Colin
a) the driveshaft angle has to be dead nuts "0" between the front and rear shaft. This annoys the experts who mostly believe the American car axiom that a little deviation reduces wear in the u-joints. No, Toyota wants 0.
b) the factory installation uses different weight guibo disc bolts to finish the balancing. Who the frick indexes the bolts before they remove them?
c) the shafts are indexed to each other. If you have removed the shafts from each other, un-indexed, well, sorry.
d) the manual threatens you with all hell if you allow the driveshaft to articulate too much when it is off the car.
e) I balanced my own driveshaft with large hose clamps, four color dots and about 256 different variations of positions amongst the clamps. Ran the car on jack stands with no wheels or discs/calipers, exhaust system lowered onto a 2X4 on a floor jack. 40 mph was the primary imbalance period, 85-90 mph was the secondary imbalance period. Hot-*** exhaust system nearby made adjusting the clamps a tricky ordeal. The good news is that you CAN balance your own driveshaft to "un-noticeable vibrations" but keep your adjustment strategy documented!
It took me 30 miles of endless cruise control 40 and 80 on the jack stands, to balance it acceptably ...
Colin
.Here is my reasoning for thinking that it could be caused by the rear axles:
I had a Subaru on which the drive shaft u-joint failed, and similarly to yours, it was vibrating significantly by 35-45 mph. Since the drive shaft spins 3.27 times faster than the wheels on these cars, wouldn't a drive shaft vibration show up around 35-45 mph rather than between 50-60 mph? I have done some research and have found that many experts find this to be the case, that drive shaft vibrations, across a wide range of vehicles, generally occur around 35-45 mph while CV axle vibrations show up at higher speeds.
I'd be interested to know yours or anyone else who's a drive train expert's thoughts on this.
Last edited by relentLS; 06-22-20 at 09:52 AM.
06-26-20, 06:52 PM
#43
Thanks for sharing your experience, you definitely understand this problem. At this point I am questioning whether it is a drive shaft issue and not the rear axles. While not impossible, I think it is highly unlikely that an inspected, known good replacement used drive shaft would be off balance or defective and cause the same vibration condition as the old one. It also seems unlikely that it was assembled incorrectly. Normally, I think it would be safe to assume that the drive shaft has been ruled out as the cause of the vibration. However as you have pointed out, these are not normal cars .
Here is my reasoning for thinking that it could be caused by the rear axles:
I had a Subaru on which the drive shaft u-joint failed, and similarly to yours, it was vibrating significantly by 35-45 mph. Since the drive shaft spins 3.27 times faster than the wheels on these cars, wouldn't a drive shaft vibration show up around 35-45 mph rather than between 50-60 mph? I have done some research and have found that many experts find this to be the case, that drive shaft vibrations, across a wide range of vehicles, generally occur around 35-45 mph while CV axle vibrations show up at higher speeds.
I'd be interested to know yours or anyone else who's a drive train expert's thoughts on this.
.Here is my reasoning for thinking that it could be caused by the rear axles:
I had a Subaru on which the drive shaft u-joint failed, and similarly to yours, it was vibrating significantly by 35-45 mph. Since the drive shaft spins 3.27 times faster than the wheels on these cars, wouldn't a drive shaft vibration show up around 35-45 mph rather than between 50-60 mph? I have done some research and have found that many experts find this to be the case, that drive shaft vibrations, across a wide range of vehicles, generally occur around 35-45 mph while CV axle vibrations show up at higher speeds.
I'd be interested to know yours or anyone else who's a drive train expert's thoughts on this.
You can see half shafts that might vibrate by looking for axial movement as you rotate the wheel. If there is a kick in the shaft, it may vibrate at-speed.
You can easily get driveshaft vibration at 55-60, but you can tell it is a higher frequency than a half shaft (so long as both rear wheels are free to spin!
The "0" angle through the driveshaft is best met by adhering to the factory manual's plumb bob test. You can shim the center mount or the front differential carrier to meet the perfect perpendicularity with the transmission's driveshaft flange .... which fricken requires perfect engine mounts and transmission mounts!
Colin
Colin
06-27-20, 09:51 AM
#44
Rookie
Thread Starter
Think I’ve made some progress...
You can see half shafts that might vibrate by looking for axial movement as you rotate the wheel. If there is a kick in the shaft, it may vibrate at-speed.
You can easily get driveshaft vibration at 55-60, but you can tell it is a higher frequency than a half shaft (so long as both rear wheels are free to spin!
The "0" angle through the driveshaft is best met by adhering to the factory manual's plumb bob test. You can shim the center mount or the front differential carrier to meet the perfect perpendicularity with the transmission's driveshaft flange .... which fricken requires perfect engine mounts and transmission mounts!
Colin
Colin
You can easily get driveshaft vibration at 55-60, but you can tell it is a higher frequency than a half shaft (so long as both rear wheels are free to spin!
The "0" angle through the driveshaft is best met by adhering to the factory manual's plumb bob test. You can shim the center mount or the front differential carrier to meet the perfect perpendicularity with the transmission's driveshaft flange .... which fricken requires perfect engine mounts and transmission mounts!
Colin
Colin
I think I made a discovery that’s pointing me in the right direction. Downloaded a free vibration analysis app and have been using it. It’s been picking up a consistent 24-26 hz vibration right around 55 mph. Considering that my wheels and axles are rotating at 12-13 hz at around 60 mph, this vibration is exactly in line with a 2nd order wheel/CV axle vibration. Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel?
07-02-20, 02:36 PM
#45
Very insightful stuff, thanks Colin. Not sure about the drive shaft angle, but my motor and transmission mounts are brand new, so that should help.
I think I made a discovery that’s pointing me in the right direction. Downloaded a free vibration analysis app and have been using it. It’s been picking up a consistent 24-26 hz vibration right around 55 mph. Considering that my wheels and axles are rotating at 12-13 hz at around 60 mph, this vibration is exactly in line with a 2nd order wheel/CV axle vibration. Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel?
I think I made a discovery that’s pointing me in the right direction. Downloaded a free vibration analysis app and have been using it. It’s been picking up a consistent 24-26 hz vibration right around 55 mph. Considering that my wheels and axles are rotating at 12-13 hz at around 60 mph, this vibration is exactly in line with a 2nd order wheel/CV axle vibration. Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel?
Colin