Improved brake feel and performance by reducing master cylinder movement
#16
Fixtured a dial indicator to measure master cylinder movement when actuating brake pedal.
First measured up - down. No measurable movement...
Yet I could see movement..but it was in and out, forward and back, in line with the angle of the master cylinder.
Refixtured the dial indicator to register in/out movement...
Before...
After...the indicator needle sweeps clockwise
Captured video, but this server apparently does not accept MP4 (??) With harder braking, the video actually goes around past zero...
First measured up - down. No measurable movement...
Yet I could see movement..but it was in and out, forward and back, in line with the angle of the master cylinder.
Refixtured the dial indicator to register in/out movement...
Before...
After...the indicator needle sweeps clockwise
Captured video, but this server apparently does not accept MP4 (??) With harder braking, the video actually goes around past zero...
That’s half of 1mm
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BNastee (02-24-21)
#17
As long as you can trigger ABS in the dry, the braking system is more powerful than the tires, you're already getting the best stopping distance the car can do. Most cars can do this stock. You can put the biggest brakes in the world and it won't improve your stopping distance at all because the limit is in the tires. You would have to upgrade tires and\or suspension geometry to improve stopping distances.
Less compliant suspension would keep the car "flatter", resulting in less dive when you slam on the brakes. It would also reduce suspension deflection on the front wheels, which keep a better contact patch on the road, probably resulting in slightly better stopping performance. Upgrading brakes typically improves two areas: you have more tire than brake and can't trigger ABS, or more commonly, you want improved cooling performance for higher performance driving and not overheat the brakes\fluid.
As for pedal feel and immediacy, modern cars have been trending towards a firmer pedal for quite some time now. This is very much tuning within the hardware itself, rather than any mounting brackets. You won't get a firm pedal like a modern car just by making the mounting point better. I'm going to say you would have much larger impacts by changing the brake cylinder itself to a higher boost ratio, which would make for a firmer pedal and less "sponge". But that comes with it's own challenges.
I dunno if reinforcing the master would do much. I think it's one of those things where you have to test it to see if that is a weakpoint in the system. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. It's a valid hypothesis to test though.
Before buying\fabricating parts, I would imagine a test for this would be quite straightforward. Get a friend (or a camera), pop the hood, look at the master cylinder. Stand on the brakes and see if it moves.
A bracket like this concerns me slightly though, because now you're putting longitudal stress throughout the master cylinder, in a manner in which it hasn't been designed for. Would that impact any of the seals\gaskets if it were suddenly being pressed against quite heavily?
Less compliant suspension would keep the car "flatter", resulting in less dive when you slam on the brakes. It would also reduce suspension deflection on the front wheels, which keep a better contact patch on the road, probably resulting in slightly better stopping performance. Upgrading brakes typically improves two areas: you have more tire than brake and can't trigger ABS, or more commonly, you want improved cooling performance for higher performance driving and not overheat the brakes\fluid.
As for pedal feel and immediacy, modern cars have been trending towards a firmer pedal for quite some time now. This is very much tuning within the hardware itself, rather than any mounting brackets. You won't get a firm pedal like a modern car just by making the mounting point better. I'm going to say you would have much larger impacts by changing the brake cylinder itself to a higher boost ratio, which would make for a firmer pedal and less "sponge". But that comes with it's own challenges.
I dunno if reinforcing the master would do much. I think it's one of those things where you have to test it to see if that is a weakpoint in the system. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. It's a valid hypothesis to test though.
Before buying\fabricating parts, I would imagine a test for this would be quite straightforward. Get a friend (or a camera), pop the hood, look at the master cylinder. Stand on the brakes and see if it moves.
A bracket like this concerns me slightly though, because now you're putting longitudal stress throughout the master cylinder, in a manner in which it hasn't been designed for. Would that impact any of the seals\gaskets if it were suddenly being pressed against quite heavily?
The other issue is whether the mounting plate side is affixed to a stable surface. On the LS400, the closest, and most logical place is at strut tower...
To fortify the area, have installed LS430 strut tower plates.
LS430 strut tower braces added to 1999 LS400. Brake master cylinder is approximately 1/2" from chasis at strut tower..
See:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...ting-area.html
The plan is to use a bolt with swiveling plate with hard rubber base to allow for any chassis flex at strut tower.
McMaster-Carr offers a range of studs with swivel base in stainless steel and rubber insert.
This GIF, exagerates in and out, forward and back firewall flexure...my LS400 is .020" -.025". ZERO up/down.... so a properly designed master cylinder brace may offer benefits.. Not recommending anything that can mar , scratch, cut or abrade the master cylinder.
Possibly the interior firewall side could be fortified. Haven't looked closely as to whether the 4 brake vacuum reservoir bolts are long enough and there is adequate perimeter to accommodate a stiffening plate. Probably brutal to access.
The firewall flexure is (but not 100%) akin to a .020" tolerance in a mechanical linkage...until that tolerance is closed, the brake pressure is not fully applied. So brake actuation time is delayed due to flexure in linkage and hydraulic system or mounting elements.
Last edited by YODAONE; 02-25-21 at 10:00 PM.
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