PhilipMidd

Hello Guys.
My 1989 Celsior just dropped its main water pump drive shaft nut. It just come off driving along allowing the pully to come adrift. This munched the serpentine belt.
This model seems to have some differences to the Lexus LS400 it has a hydraulically driven fan, not electric or driven directly off of the water pump pully.
Its the nut and shaft out of the water pump that's the problem. I dont know if this is normal, but the nut that come off is a left handed fine thread nut. I have been unable to find one. Does anybody know what it is? Or point me to some place I can get the info?
I've had this car about 3 or 4 years and after sorting a few initial things out (electrics and minor stuff) Its run like a dream with only oils and water maintenance, plus just replaced the tires.
I was willing to simply buy a new water pump but what I've found looks different to what I have
Oh yeah. One of the initial things I had replaced was the Serpentine belt only to discover its longer than the standard one. I think the standard one is 2250mm and the one I had to get to make it work was 2275mm (6PK2275RB).
Can anyone tell me about the nut (thats all I really need to get this up and running again).
The shaft out of the water pump has a keyway and key to fix the pully plate and pully. That same shaft ends in a left handed thread (and nut) to secure it from drifting off the shaft. Without the Nut (and probably washer) it can (and did) drift off the water pump shaft.
I need to know about that nut (and possible washer), what size pitch etc and if possible if anyone knows

I tried to upload some pic from my Google Drive, but its erroring in Link, InLine Attachments and upload - if I can work it out I will post another post and give pics.
OK, got it sorted. Be warned, its 11 largish files.

General Overview of front of motor


Pic of pully but slid off of keyway


Showing shaft, keyway and key, left handed thread.


pully removed


size of shaft whole (about 17mm)

size of threaded bit (about 10mm)


size of shaft hole (17mm?)


Depth of pully (about 60mm)

Width of pully where the belt sits.

Inside of pully (with attaching disc in place)

inside of pully with attaching plate beside it (you can clearly see the kryway on the plate).

Yamae

Does this help you any? This drawing is about the Celsior UCF10 water pump.

PhilipMidd

Thanks mate.
To be honest, I am having problems relating that diagram to what I can see on my car. However, maybe in the light of day things will make more sense.
Its currently 12:30am here, so I'm going by memory and by photos I took (that are now in my first post in this new thread).

LeX2K

Can you post your VIN? Or sent it to me via PM? The hydraulic motor has a nut holding the pulley on but I don't see this on the water pump.

Yamae

Below are the detailed drawing of the water pump and the parts list in Japanese.

PhilipMidd

Ah. Thank you Yamae.

Its 16938B (The Nut) 90029-07002
and 16938A (spring Washer) 90029-11400
My car is 1989 JDM

That should make it easier for the dealer, and if not, I should be able to get a description to get one made up if necessary.
Thanks.

PhilipMidd

​​​​​​​Thanks for responding.
Yamae's second post shows my water pump.spot on. see the nut on the end of the water pump?
VIN 6U900UCF100012884

PhilipMidd

Hello Guys.
The part that nut is attached to is NOT the water pump as I thought. I took the "Water Pump" (Just the pump) out today to have a nut manufactured for it. But I discovered its the hydraulic pump for the radiator fan.
I guess I'm I'm learning as I go here and should expect surprises

It changes nothing for me, I still need to get or manufacture the a left handed nut. In putting out the Hydraulic pump I discovered something that's going to be an issue when I come to put this all back together.
There is a little spring that I can see is going to be the devil to get back in and stay in place while I put the pump back in.
Come to that, is there something I can use (like grease) to secure that string in the center while I put the hydronic pump in, that's not going to gum up the hydraulics as it dissolves?
I'm looking for an easy way instead of disassembling the entire front of the engine and car (radiator etc) to remove the housing to then be able to mount the pump vertically back into the housing and finally put it all back together again.
Plus, who knows what other issues I will discover while doing that.. I thick grease seems like I good idea but I dont want to screw up the hydraulics later on.
The spring in question is 16933A in about the middle of the second page of Yamae's diagram.
Maybe I could just just about any grease to hold the spring and just flush the hydraulic fluid several times to clear out the grease contaminant. Or, don't I need to worry about a little grease in the oil?
I know nothing about hydraulics other than the physics of it.
As I intend to keep this car on the road for a few more years before storing it, I'm starting to look for a full service manual for this car (in English). May help me from making incorrect assumptions.
Any help appreciated..

PhilipMidd

My 89 Celsior (LS400 Gen1).
Anyone know what fluid I should use in the hydraulic radiator fan pump?
Been looking around other places and they basically say use Dexron II or III.
I know its not recommended to use that in the Power steering pump but dont know about the hydraulic radiator fan pump.

Is Dexron II or III OK for this use, or is something else recommended?
Plus, when I pulled the pump off, I noticed there was no seal o-rung of casket. Just aluminium to aluminium. Put it back the same way? Its been my experience that things like that work great from the factory, but leak when you put an old engine back together without sealant. Comments?
There is a spring at the back of the pump, mounted centrally and horizontally, so it is clearly meant to be mounted with the housing out and placed facing up instead of forward as it is on the engine. I dont want to take it out the housing, can I use a small blob of grease to hold it in place while I put the pump back in? What grease would be safe to use?

PS. The nut I was chasing that holds the pully on the hydraulic radiator fan pump is a left handed 14mm 1.5 pitch in case anyone else looses theirs. Toyota no longer stock them. Toyota want almost $3500 AUD (about $2400 USD) for a new pump complete, and they only have 2 left in Japan. That's almost double what I paid for the Vehicle!

Thanks in advance. All help appreciated.

Yamae

The Celsior's manual says to use this which is also for the power steering.

PhilipMidd

Thanks mate.
I forgot to mention, Celsior is all up and running again. I ended up using Loctite to secure the nut. Will keep checking on it for now. I have a spare nut (and a spare Serpentine belt) incase it goes south again.
Friend I didnt realize worked at a Toyota dealership even recommended I just use Dexron III in the hydraulic pump. Once the air bled itself out it seems to be running fine. No leaks and no noise ... yet.
I ended up using a small blob of Petrolium Jelly to hold the spring in place. Guessing its all desolved in now. I figured using something base with the least amount of additives in it should be OK.

PhilipMidd

I didn't realise it at the time of your post, but you were right. It was the Hydraulic pump for the radiator fan. I was looking at. (Water pump... lol).
I was completely barking up the wrong tree with thinking it was the water pump.
Never had a car with a hydraulic pump and motor for the radiator fan before. Never even seen one before. Didn't know they existed. It was a new one on me. I'm assuming they are more reliable than Viscous friction fans?
I dont really know how they operate - I presume there is a valve that is ECU controlled or hooked to the engine temperature sensor somehow?
With the normal friction Viscous clutch fans, my understanding is the silicon oil used in the center of the fan is released into what looks like a kind of mini torque converter via a valve that is by-metal strip (affectively hot air from the radiator activated).