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Radiator was drained and refilled, at the regular 5W-30 engine oil change appointment. Probably not flushed. Toyota (pink) long-life coolant. New Toyota radiator cap. Last time radiator was serviced was 8yrs/34K miles ago at the timing belt change (with new Aisin water pump and Toyota thermostat).
Probably original radiator from 2005.
Kid drove 1 way, about 2 miles: usual drive. Not a major street. Not more than 40 mph.
Claims the check engine and VSC lights came on after the car was started after parking a short while. Decided to drive back home, when engine started smoking about 1 mile from there, so pulled into a school parking lot. Said the engine temp meter was at zero! (That's usually only for a short while when the engine is cold).
I imagine the LS430 engine would shut off if temperature was dangerously high enough to blow a head gasket.
There is a possibility (and I'm guessing) that my kid may have accidentally put the car in S (1 or 2) instead of D(rive) and tried to go at maybe 40 mph.
That might have revved the engine up.
But kid says no. And insists there were no warning thermostat temperature signs.
Has even driven on major freeways under my supervision, and is a pretty conservative driver. The previous day my kid day was driving on the freeway alone under very heavy traffic, but returned home with no incident to report. Maybe the cooling system got compromised then. I drove the car the day before that, and nothing odd to report.
Could a slow coolant/water leak have reduced the radiator fluid levels? I did not check water levels after the radiator service 4 months/1K miles ago. Nothing was leaking on my driveway floor. But pink coolant was splashed at the top parts of the radiator and surrounding sides when I saw the disabled car in the school parking lot.
Sounds to me like it was driven while at extremely hot over heated temp till the head gasket went and or head warped or other catastrophic events occurred.
I would consider another used engine before just replacing the top end. I did a junkyard (car-part.com) search in the LA area (not sure where in CA you are) and found engines around $1,500.
For around $3,000 (using an independent shop) you'd likely have your car back to running in top shape!
Sounds to me like it was driven while at extremely hot over heated temp till the head gasket went and or head warped or other catastrophic events occurred.
I hear that the 17-year-old radiator failed (cracked), and that caused the blown head gasket. For that morning's 2-mile [one-way] drive, I can't imagine what would have caused that high a temperature.
When does one replace an old radiator proactively anyway.. 17 years is apparently too long.
Here's the professional repair estimate (around $5K).
1 year / 12K mile warranty.
Go/No Go? LS430 repair estimate
I know you're at the mercy of a repair facility, but the $250 MISC charge is insulting. I understand a repair shop needs to make money, but the prices they quote for parts are EASILY DOUBLE, even TRIPLE what the actual parts are if you purchased them yourself. Do we know if they are OEM/Toyota or could they be generic Chinese crap? I realize they show legit part #'s, but they could pick the cheap crap "equivalent" to each part listed. I wonder how that shop would react if you said you'll purchase all the parts yourself, plus request they take off the MISC charge? I personally have the luxury of owning a second vehicle, so if the Lex goes hard down, I have the backup. Not sure if you're in a jam now or if you have transportation while you 'shop around' for the right repair shop? Why aren't you considering the Lex dealer where you had the prior work done, give you an estimate? Not to go backwards, but it's hard to picture the blown head gasket occurring by driving 2 miles and less than 40mph. We are talking about the engine running for THREE minutes for that short drive. I'm sorry that I'm more full of questions than answers.
I'm in San Diego.That local repair facility comes highly recommended by people on Nextdoor for Toyotas, Hondas, etc. I'll be sure to check with them if they will be using original Toyota parts. If it were just a set of plugs or something simple, I'd buy it from an out of state Lexus dealer (in AZ) that has good prices.I got my timing belt kit, Aisin water pump, etc from Amazon 8 years ago.This job has more parts that I'm not familiar with. My car was almost exclusively serviced at a local Toyota dealership over the 10 years I owned it.When I contacted them about what just happened, they weren't too eager to speak to me. I contacted the Service Manager I dealt with in 4/2023 (when I had my oil changed and radiator serviced), and have requested a quote for a blown head gasket job on this car. * Let me just say this Toyota dealership service dept had wanted $1400 to fix per door lock actuator, for 2 doors, a few years ago. Beat that! Can't wait to hear what a blown head gasket job will cost there.. I rented a 2023 Tesla Model 3 AWD (see pic) for about $27/day, + taxes, for a week, from Hertz.What a nice car and features! And all those cameras!My first electric car experience.But bumpy ride, not too easy to climb out of if parked on an uphill incline.I always thought it was kinda like a small sedan, but it feels more like a 4 door sports coupe.And I'm not a sports coupe person. 2023 Tesla Model 3
Here's the professional repair estimate (around $5K).
1 year / 12K mile warranty.
Go/No Go? LS430 repair estimate
Here is something you should think about, is why I never do the service Head gasket you got a estimate for.
So the motor overheated enough to cause major problems. There is a bottom end, crank, pistons rings, rods, bearings. There have been events like this where there was piston cylinder wall damage, and/or a Rod bearing was spun or damaged also. Then as you advised, the car was still driven hot for quite a while. I would not chance the maybe head gasket fix, if keeping the car. Used engine would be my choice. Also coolant in oil goes places that should have oil only lubrications, not oil + water/coolant mix. What happens with the $5k estimate quote if it does not fix it when its done and tested?
If the radiator cracked/failed that would prevent the cooling system from pressurising which would lower the boiling point of the coolant and could lead to overheating, especially if it is very hot where you are.
However, it should have shown a high temperature on the dash and other indications and would still take quite a few miles for it to overheat.
Personally, I suspect that the chain of events was
1- The head gasket failed which led to over-pressurisation of the cooling system.
2- The over-pressure caused the radiator to crack/fail and steam came out from under the hood.
If this is the case and he only drove a little way like that, then the damage will be minimal.
You will need new head gaskets (do BOTH sides) and radiator at a minimum but it's not $5k-7K of work to replace the head gaskets and the radiator.
I suspect you may need to find an alternate mechanic and get a second opinion.
If the radiator cracked/failed that would prevent the cooling system from pressurising which would lower the boiling point of the coolant and could lead to overheating, especially if it is very hot where you are.
However, it should have shown a high temperature on the dash and other indications and would still take quite a few miles for it to overheat.
Personally, I suspect that the chain of events was
1- The head gasket failed which led to over-pressurisation of the cooling system.
2- The over-pressure caused the radiator to crack/fail and steam came out from under the hood.
If this is the case and he only drove a little way like that, then the damage will be minimal.
You will need new head gaskets (do BOTH sides) and radiator at a minimum but it's not $5k-7K of work to replace the head gaskets and the radiator.
I suspect you may need to find an alternate mechanic and get a second opinion.
And then.... after doing the above and putting it back together and paying. At 1st test start up, you get to see if it has piston, rings, cylinder wall, rod, crank or bearing further internal damaged that occurred. damaged that happened as a result. And/or a crack in the radiator along with a crack in the Cylinder heads?
If you told the shop to do what you said above and you end up with possible damage unbeknownst that I said above, then it's on you and you are screwed, when you could have just got a good deal on a low cost known good motor and put it in.
I think if you really want to keep the car, you should just swap the engine. Like others have said above, a new engine + labor cost would still likely be less than the head gasket repair quote, and you won't have to worry about the head gasket repair not actually fixing the issue. Another LS in good condition in SoCal is going to cost twice that, at least. You may be able to find some higher milage examples for less than $10k, but from what I've seen, they all look pretty beat. And in my opinion, there aren't very many newer cars that compare to the LS in quality and general reliability, but I guess that just depends on your budget.
So I got it fixed.
They do replace engines, but this low mileage (135K) one could be repaired; they said the radiator (top part) cracked, and that's what caused the coolant loss and overheating and subsequent head gasket blowing (since engine was not turned off early enough; any later and it would have been much worse damage they said).
* Maybe none of this would have happened if I had not done the "radiator service" for $170 at the Toyota Dealership 4 months/1K miles ago.. but the coolant in there was 8 years/34K miles old before that service, so I thought it was time.
Total cost: $5.5K ($2600 labor, $500 sublet for cylinder head surfacing/compression testing, $2000 OEM/Toyota parts, the rest in taxes and surcharge for credit card use). See image for details. They replaced the timing belt, water pump, and thermostat among other things.
* Not easy to tow a disabled car around shopping for lower prices in San Diego.
Most places here don't look for new engines; that's like a different ballgame to them, i.e. "can't fix the current engine, buy another car."
Toyota Dealer quoted $1K more with the caveat that bill might be higher if engine interior necessitated that. So you definitely know it is gonna be higher. And that was without a new timing belt and water pump too.
Drove it on the the freeway for 25 miles, and got Check Engine Light on the way back!
(They said they had tested it on the freeway after the major engine work, and all looked OK)
No high temperature reading on temperature gauge this time: it was at 50%.
Coolant in hot reservoir looked 80% full.
No visible leaks. They said if warning light was not flashing under those circumstances, it was OK to drive it the 20 miles back to their repair shop. So I did, at no more than 60 mph with AC off.
Turned out to be a CEL/OBD code ?? (bank 1 sensor 2 IIRC); oxygen sensor thing they said.
They said the O2 sensors were reporting correctly when they tested it in the shop now. So they reset the CEL to see if it's gonna happen again.
The gas was very low after the repair, and I I did fill it up with Costco 91 octane before the freeway trip. Maybe it picked up some gunk from the tank at that low level.
I also cleaned the MAF sensor over a year ago to fix a stalling/acceleration issue; not sure if that needs to be cleaned/replaced, but I'll not mess with that while this is under their 1 yr / 12K mile warranty.
* Interesting, I don't have that warranty in writing on their paperwork..
I'm glad I rented that 2023 Tesla Model 3 for 2 weeks. Initially, I was so sure that would be my next car if the LS430 was not gonna get fixed. Nice little electric car, but not a long term replacement for a LS430. Did I already mention the terrible suspension? I could feel every imperfection on the road. And noticeable exterior noise too.
Maybe the Model Y or Model S are better. A lot of money to fix the blown head gasket.
08-13-23, 08:18 PM
