2006 Avalon vs. LS430... (Yes, you read that right)
02-10-05, 01:12 PM
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Thread Starter
2006 Avalon vs. LS430... (Yes, you read that right)
OK Guys, Im not sure whats goin on here, but I was over on the Caddy forum which Im also on frequently, and I came across talk of the 2006 Avalon... I was somewhat impressed with the car from the Autoshow and commercials... but I didnt know just how many things Toyota had crammed into this tops out at 35k car. Theyve literally ECLIPSED the ES330, and are dangerously treading on LS territory sans the badge (and the ugly frumpy look).
Heres an Article someone posted on the Caddy Forum:
2005 Toyota Avalon
All-new sedan boasts technology and refinement.
By John Stewart
Overview
Toyota Avalon is all-new for 2005, completely redesigned and re-engineered from the ground up.
First introduced as a 1994 model, the Avalon was designed as an alternative to full-size sedans such as the Ford Crown Victoria, Chevy Caprice, and Buick Roadmaster.
Now, 10 years later, the all-new 2005 Avalon has morphed into four models, each with slightly different priorities, to broaden appeal across more diverse age groups and income levels. It has always been aimed at drivers who appreciate quality and comfort, but prefer an understated way to get it.
By far the most American of any Toyota, the 2005 Avalon was designed in Newport Beach, California, engineered by the Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and built in Georgetown Kentucky. Toyota gathered extensive consumer and owner body feedback before redesigning it.
This third-generation Avalon is more distinctive than before, with apparent grace and agility. It is significantly larger, with special attention paid to rear-seat passenger comfort. Horsepower has been increased by 33 percent by adding an all-new double overhead-cam V6, which is teamed with a state-of-the-art electronically controlled five-speed automatic transmission.
Model Lineup
All Toyota Avalon models come with a 3.5-liter V6 and five-speed automatic transmission with sequential shift.
Safety features that come standard include driver and front-passenger airbags, seat-mounted side-impact airbags for torso protection, side curtain airbags for head protection, and a driver's knee airbag. Anti-lock brakes (ABS) are standard and include Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) and Brake Assist. Optional safety features for XLS and Limited are Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and Traction Control (TRAC).
Avalon XL ($26,350), the most affordable model, comes standard with a premium-level AM/FM/cassette/CD stereo with nine speakers, dual-zone climate control with air filtration, remote keyless entry, power door locks with anti-lockout feature, power windows with driver and passenger auto up/down with pinch protection and retained power, optitron instruments with chrome accents, maintenance indicator light, steering-wheel-mounted audio and climate controls, multi-function information display with audio, climate control, temperature and trip computer. The XL also has cruise control, an engine immobilizer and a tilt and telescoping steering column. The spare tire is full sized, with a matching alloy wheel.
The Touring model ($28,600) adds leather-trimmed seats, leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift ****, and aluminum door scuff plates. Touring grade also gets 17-inch alloy wheels with P215/55R17 tires and more aggressive suspension tuning. Headlamps are high-intensity-discharge (HID) lamps.
The XLS ($30,800) builds on the XL standard features, adding a power moonroof, four-way adjustable power passenger seat, in-dash six-disc CD changer, dual heated outside mirrors with auto-dimming electrochromic driver's side, auto-dimming rearview mirror with compass and Homelink universal transceiver, aluminum door scuff plates and anti-theft system.
The Limited ($33,540) adds to the XLS features a 360-watt JBL Synthesis audio system with six-disc CD changer and 12 speakers (optional on Touring and XLS). Also with Limited are a one-touch auto-reverse power rear sunshade, power driver's seat cushion length adjuster, and Smart Key system. Limited's 17-inch alloy wheels are unique. Other features include HID headlamps, wood and leather trimmed shift **** and steering wheel, rain-sensing windshield wipers, and a driver and passenger seat heater and fan.
Optional on both XLS and Limited are a navigation system and dynamic laser cruise control.
Walkaround
The Toyota Avalon has never been known for daring styling, and at first glance the new Avalon seems to offer only subtle changes. Yet, with just a few well-defined design strokes, the new Avalon manages to project more character, more contemporary energy than ever before.
A good part of this new image comes from a wider, longer stance. The size of the car, five inches longer than the previous-generation (pre-2005) model, is emphasized from the rear, where a tall rear deck, large tail lamps and dual rear exhaust outlets suggest an expensive touring sedan. The handsome rear deck line remains undisturbed by a wing, except in the Touring grade, which mounts a rear lip spoiler consistent with its sporty wheels and brighter accents.
The front of the Avalon is dominated by a horizontal grille, with chrome-accented bars, and a wide lower intake valence calling attention to greater width. The lines created by the valence are extended by use of fog lamps on the Touring, XLS and Limited models.
The effect is to create an expansive definition of an elegant, if unassuming, sedan. And it works. Side by side with the 2004 model, the all-new 2005 Avalon appears sleek, powerful, and advanced.
The Avalon interior is remarkably clean and uncluttered. Retracting lids hide audio controls and the navigation system controls, so the dash and console design avoids a sense of undue complexity. The action of the retracting covers is slow and measured, with the look and satisfying feel of high-end audio equipment. The result is a dash and front compartment that is simple and sophisticated at the same time.
Rear legroom is particularly generous with three-across seating facilitated by elimination of the rear hump. At one point we rode in the rear seat, directly behind a six-foot driver, with legroom to spare. In fact, enough room that we could imagine the Avalon as a taxi cab.
Part of the rear-seat comfort is due to the fact that the seats offer 10 degrees of adjustment to create five sitting positions. As the backrest is reclined, headroom is increased, so people of varying heights and sizes can be comfortable in the back.
The trunk is family sized as well, with a pass-through door for long gear such as skis. Wood accents, particularly on the Limited, are attractive and judiciously placed. The chrome door scuff plates on the Touring grade, particularly, are notably attractive and distinctive.
The Optitron instruments are elegant and technically appealing displays, round as in the previous Avalon, but unmistakably advanced
We drove Toyota Avalon Limited and Touring models in and around Carmel-by-the-Sea in Northern California where roads varied from twisting mountain passes to two-lane highways and breathtaking circuits along the Big Sur section of Highway 1.
We quickly discovered the Avalon is the kind of car that will never annoy you, a car best characterized by the absence of noise, vibration or harshness.
The seats are an example. They are well cushioned, power adjusted, and have memory functions, as you would expect. Setting out on a damp morning, we quickly found the heat feature and warmed ourselves against the coastal fog. As the hours rolled on, we lengthened the lower seat cushion, which extends by a few inches to add support, and finally, when the afternoon sun burned through and the valley heated to 80 degrees, we used air-conditioned vents in the seats. (The cool air is actually driven up through channels in the foam and through perforated leather.) In short, these are seats that will not permit any form of discomfort, no matter what the conditions. They provide an apt analogy for the entire car, a vehicle possessed of small comforts that add up to a satisfying environment to calm the pickiest driver.
Another example: The Smart Key on the Limited. To use it, we just walked up to the car. At a touch, all four doors unlocked. We sat down. Foot on the brake, we touched the Start button and the car hummed, more like a computer than an automobile. There is no key, no fumbling, only a perfectly convenient entry.
Like the rest of the car, the suspension is set up primarily for comfort. On tight roads some body roll can be induced. Yet the Avalon held any reasonable line through a corner we cared to strike, protesting only at careless tossing, absorbing pavement irregularities at the apex with little apparent concern. It's a front-wheel-drive configuration, with struts controlling L-shaped lower control arms, and a multi-link/strut arrangement in the back, so the car tends to squat slightly coming out of corners, and pull through them from the front. Handling, if not highly sportive, is extremely well balanced.
The Touring grade, by contrast to the Limited, is set up for sharper handling performance, with stiffer 17-inch wheels, Michelin MXV4 tires, and stiffer shock tuning. It has quicker reflexes, at the expense of some ride comfort and noise control, but does supply a very secure, on-center feeling through the twisties. Steering, in both cases power rack-and-pinion, manages to avoid the over-assisted vagaries common to large SUVs and domestic family sedans.
The engine and transmission provide unobtrusive performance. As the car slowly transformed us from aggressive testers into relaxed tourists, we loafed along, absorbing local color and the flavor of the environment. Fifth gear is a very relaxed overdrive, allowing the engine to maintain cruise with minimal effort. As we mixed with commuters and lunch-break traffic, the car remained understressed, quietly relaxed, and undemanding.
Later in the day, we addressed a steep mountain pass with some determination and were rewarded with 280 horsepower backed by a five-speed automatic that knows when to shift. Our speeds were in the 30 to 50 mph range when we began to operate the transmission in manual mode, tap-shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear and revving up and down through the corners.
The V6 pulls strongly at higher rpm (and right up to the 6200 rpm redline), but remains remarkably quiet in the process. It's a 4-valve, double overhead-cam power plant, with aluminum block and heads. The short stroke means that it likes to rev, and it has very low reciprocating mass, with very low friction cam gear. These are the characteristics of a long-life, efficient everyday car engine with exceptional passing power. Our forays into canyon carving were not perfectly consistent with this type of design, and yet they were not frustrating, either. The horsepower is there, and the transmission will allow you to access it. Add the tighter suspension of the Touring model and the Avalon is decidedly sporty. But that's not what the Avalon is about. It's a car that makes everyday use a pleasant experience, a versatile cruiser and around-town chariot that shortens long trips, thoughtfully insulating occupants from jagged loose ends of the real world. The original Avalon was the same, and this generation is as well. Only, it's 33 percent more powerful. The new V6 is rated by the EPA to deliver 22 mpg City/30 mpg Highway.
It's a smooth powerplant, and the low vibration is no accident; an active control mount cancels low-rpm motions of the engine. Transmission upshifts are governed by third-generation electronic software with specific engine mount tuning to reduce shift shock. Part-throttle upshifts are barely noticeable.
Our Limited had the optional Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, and Brake Assist. These are dynamic systems that remain in the background until wheel slip, or skidding, is detected. VSC helps keep a skidding vehicle on the road by braking certain tires instantly. We activated the traction control by hammering the throttle from a standing start, with one side on pavement and the other on a sandy shoulder area. Sure enough: no wheelspin, just a smooth departure. We're told it works on wet surfaces and snow-covered roads, anyplace with mixed friction driving surfaces.
Brake Assist steps in when you stab the brakes, as if you were in a panic stop. Very hard, sharp application of the brake pedal automatically triggers the ABS response, slowing the vehicle quickly in anticipation of a possible impact. The idea is, if an impact can not be avoided, the system can at least make sure it happens at a lower (safer) speed.
Summary
The all-new 2005 Toyota Avalon is markedly improved, with more power, more room and an expansion of the model line to four different models. It's a car developed by Americans, built in America, that takes full advantage of the latest technologies in safety, efficiency, and performance. More than anything, the new Avalon offers a stronger individual presence, and a clear step up from the Toyota Camry.
To make it easier, since I know you wont read all of that
This car has:
-360 Watt JBL Synthesis Audio System with 12 Speakers (vs. LS's 240... I dont care whether Mark Levinson had anything to do with it or not, power is power to an extent).
-Heated and COOLED front seats (My 56k LS430 which is not an Ultra doesnt have those!)
-Optitron Gauges (Yea, Lexus ripoff right there)
-DYNAMIC LASER CRUISE CONTROL (another feature I really wanted sorely lacking in my LS)
-280HP V6 (I love V8's, but to have a 280hp Avalon on my 290hp tail is a little scary)
-Navigation System with hidden controls
-Xenon/HID Headlamps (finally in a Toyota)
-SMART ACCESS KEY SYSTEM (Yea, my Lexus... nope, another feature I like on the NEW LS, and now the cheap Avalon has it
)
-Tiptronic
And I could go on... Im not bringing down the LS mind you, its an awesome car, its just that most of the crud you can now get on this thing for under 40k, is the same reason I wanted the LS Ultra Luxury in the first place. I feel somewhat slighted by Toyota on this one... I thought alot of these features would be kept in the stratusphere for awhile, hell! Theyve even undercut the new RL by several thousand dollars, and STILL have as many features.
(Are those LED Taillights too?...)
Heres an Article someone posted on the Caddy Forum:
2005 Toyota Avalon
All-new sedan boasts technology and refinement.
By John Stewart
Overview
Toyota Avalon is all-new for 2005, completely redesigned and re-engineered from the ground up.
First introduced as a 1994 model, the Avalon was designed as an alternative to full-size sedans such as the Ford Crown Victoria, Chevy Caprice, and Buick Roadmaster.
Now, 10 years later, the all-new 2005 Avalon has morphed into four models, each with slightly different priorities, to broaden appeal across more diverse age groups and income levels. It has always been aimed at drivers who appreciate quality and comfort, but prefer an understated way to get it.
By far the most American of any Toyota, the 2005 Avalon was designed in Newport Beach, California, engineered by the Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and built in Georgetown Kentucky. Toyota gathered extensive consumer and owner body feedback before redesigning it.
This third-generation Avalon is more distinctive than before, with apparent grace and agility. It is significantly larger, with special attention paid to rear-seat passenger comfort. Horsepower has been increased by 33 percent by adding an all-new double overhead-cam V6, which is teamed with a state-of-the-art electronically controlled five-speed automatic transmission.
Model Lineup
All Toyota Avalon models come with a 3.5-liter V6 and five-speed automatic transmission with sequential shift.
Safety features that come standard include driver and front-passenger airbags, seat-mounted side-impact airbags for torso protection, side curtain airbags for head protection, and a driver's knee airbag. Anti-lock brakes (ABS) are standard and include Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) and Brake Assist. Optional safety features for XLS and Limited are Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and Traction Control (TRAC).
Avalon XL ($26,350), the most affordable model, comes standard with a premium-level AM/FM/cassette/CD stereo with nine speakers, dual-zone climate control with air filtration, remote keyless entry, power door locks with anti-lockout feature, power windows with driver and passenger auto up/down with pinch protection and retained power, optitron instruments with chrome accents, maintenance indicator light, steering-wheel-mounted audio and climate controls, multi-function information display with audio, climate control, temperature and trip computer. The XL also has cruise control, an engine immobilizer and a tilt and telescoping steering column. The spare tire is full sized, with a matching alloy wheel.
The Touring model ($28,600) adds leather-trimmed seats, leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift ****, and aluminum door scuff plates. Touring grade also gets 17-inch alloy wheels with P215/55R17 tires and more aggressive suspension tuning. Headlamps are high-intensity-discharge (HID) lamps.
The XLS ($30,800) builds on the XL standard features, adding a power moonroof, four-way adjustable power passenger seat, in-dash six-disc CD changer, dual heated outside mirrors with auto-dimming electrochromic driver's side, auto-dimming rearview mirror with compass and Homelink universal transceiver, aluminum door scuff plates and anti-theft system.
The Limited ($33,540) adds to the XLS features a 360-watt JBL Synthesis audio system with six-disc CD changer and 12 speakers (optional on Touring and XLS). Also with Limited are a one-touch auto-reverse power rear sunshade, power driver's seat cushion length adjuster, and Smart Key system. Limited's 17-inch alloy wheels are unique. Other features include HID headlamps, wood and leather trimmed shift **** and steering wheel, rain-sensing windshield wipers, and a driver and passenger seat heater and fan.
Optional on both XLS and Limited are a navigation system and dynamic laser cruise control.
Walkaround
The Toyota Avalon has never been known for daring styling, and at first glance the new Avalon seems to offer only subtle changes. Yet, with just a few well-defined design strokes, the new Avalon manages to project more character, more contemporary energy than ever before.
A good part of this new image comes from a wider, longer stance. The size of the car, five inches longer than the previous-generation (pre-2005) model, is emphasized from the rear, where a tall rear deck, large tail lamps and dual rear exhaust outlets suggest an expensive touring sedan. The handsome rear deck line remains undisturbed by a wing, except in the Touring grade, which mounts a rear lip spoiler consistent with its sporty wheels and brighter accents.
The front of the Avalon is dominated by a horizontal grille, with chrome-accented bars, and a wide lower intake valence calling attention to greater width. The lines created by the valence are extended by use of fog lamps on the Touring, XLS and Limited models.
The effect is to create an expansive definition of an elegant, if unassuming, sedan. And it works. Side by side with the 2004 model, the all-new 2005 Avalon appears sleek, powerful, and advanced.
The Avalon interior is remarkably clean and uncluttered. Retracting lids hide audio controls and the navigation system controls, so the dash and console design avoids a sense of undue complexity. The action of the retracting covers is slow and measured, with the look and satisfying feel of high-end audio equipment. The result is a dash and front compartment that is simple and sophisticated at the same time.
Rear legroom is particularly generous with three-across seating facilitated by elimination of the rear hump. At one point we rode in the rear seat, directly behind a six-foot driver, with legroom to spare. In fact, enough room that we could imagine the Avalon as a taxi cab.
Part of the rear-seat comfort is due to the fact that the seats offer 10 degrees of adjustment to create five sitting positions. As the backrest is reclined, headroom is increased, so people of varying heights and sizes can be comfortable in the back.
The trunk is family sized as well, with a pass-through door for long gear such as skis. Wood accents, particularly on the Limited, are attractive and judiciously placed. The chrome door scuff plates on the Touring grade, particularly, are notably attractive and distinctive.
The Optitron instruments are elegant and technically appealing displays, round as in the previous Avalon, but unmistakably advanced
We drove Toyota Avalon Limited and Touring models in and around Carmel-by-the-Sea in Northern California where roads varied from twisting mountain passes to two-lane highways and breathtaking circuits along the Big Sur section of Highway 1.
We quickly discovered the Avalon is the kind of car that will never annoy you, a car best characterized by the absence of noise, vibration or harshness.
The seats are an example. They are well cushioned, power adjusted, and have memory functions, as you would expect. Setting out on a damp morning, we quickly found the heat feature and warmed ourselves against the coastal fog. As the hours rolled on, we lengthened the lower seat cushion, which extends by a few inches to add support, and finally, when the afternoon sun burned through and the valley heated to 80 degrees, we used air-conditioned vents in the seats. (The cool air is actually driven up through channels in the foam and through perforated leather.) In short, these are seats that will not permit any form of discomfort, no matter what the conditions. They provide an apt analogy for the entire car, a vehicle possessed of small comforts that add up to a satisfying environment to calm the pickiest driver.
Another example: The Smart Key on the Limited. To use it, we just walked up to the car. At a touch, all four doors unlocked. We sat down. Foot on the brake, we touched the Start button and the car hummed, more like a computer than an automobile. There is no key, no fumbling, only a perfectly convenient entry.
Like the rest of the car, the suspension is set up primarily for comfort. On tight roads some body roll can be induced. Yet the Avalon held any reasonable line through a corner we cared to strike, protesting only at careless tossing, absorbing pavement irregularities at the apex with little apparent concern. It's a front-wheel-drive configuration, with struts controlling L-shaped lower control arms, and a multi-link/strut arrangement in the back, so the car tends to squat slightly coming out of corners, and pull through them from the front. Handling, if not highly sportive, is extremely well balanced.
The Touring grade, by contrast to the Limited, is set up for sharper handling performance, with stiffer 17-inch wheels, Michelin MXV4 tires, and stiffer shock tuning. It has quicker reflexes, at the expense of some ride comfort and noise control, but does supply a very secure, on-center feeling through the twisties. Steering, in both cases power rack-and-pinion, manages to avoid the over-assisted vagaries common to large SUVs and domestic family sedans.
The engine and transmission provide unobtrusive performance. As the car slowly transformed us from aggressive testers into relaxed tourists, we loafed along, absorbing local color and the flavor of the environment. Fifth gear is a very relaxed overdrive, allowing the engine to maintain cruise with minimal effort. As we mixed with commuters and lunch-break traffic, the car remained understressed, quietly relaxed, and undemanding.
Later in the day, we addressed a steep mountain pass with some determination and were rewarded with 280 horsepower backed by a five-speed automatic that knows when to shift. Our speeds were in the 30 to 50 mph range when we began to operate the transmission in manual mode, tap-shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear and revving up and down through the corners.
The V6 pulls strongly at higher rpm (and right up to the 6200 rpm redline), but remains remarkably quiet in the process. It's a 4-valve, double overhead-cam power plant, with aluminum block and heads. The short stroke means that it likes to rev, and it has very low reciprocating mass, with very low friction cam gear. These are the characteristics of a long-life, efficient everyday car engine with exceptional passing power. Our forays into canyon carving were not perfectly consistent with this type of design, and yet they were not frustrating, either. The horsepower is there, and the transmission will allow you to access it. Add the tighter suspension of the Touring model and the Avalon is decidedly sporty. But that's not what the Avalon is about. It's a car that makes everyday use a pleasant experience, a versatile cruiser and around-town chariot that shortens long trips, thoughtfully insulating occupants from jagged loose ends of the real world. The original Avalon was the same, and this generation is as well. Only, it's 33 percent more powerful. The new V6 is rated by the EPA to deliver 22 mpg City/30 mpg Highway.
It's a smooth powerplant, and the low vibration is no accident; an active control mount cancels low-rpm motions of the engine. Transmission upshifts are governed by third-generation electronic software with specific engine mount tuning to reduce shift shock. Part-throttle upshifts are barely noticeable.
Our Limited had the optional Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, and Brake Assist. These are dynamic systems that remain in the background until wheel slip, or skidding, is detected. VSC helps keep a skidding vehicle on the road by braking certain tires instantly. We activated the traction control by hammering the throttle from a standing start, with one side on pavement and the other on a sandy shoulder area. Sure enough: no wheelspin, just a smooth departure. We're told it works on wet surfaces and snow-covered roads, anyplace with mixed friction driving surfaces.
Brake Assist steps in when you stab the brakes, as if you were in a panic stop. Very hard, sharp application of the brake pedal automatically triggers the ABS response, slowing the vehicle quickly in anticipation of a possible impact. The idea is, if an impact can not be avoided, the system can at least make sure it happens at a lower (safer) speed.
Summary
The all-new 2005 Toyota Avalon is markedly improved, with more power, more room and an expansion of the model line to four different models. It's a car developed by Americans, built in America, that takes full advantage of the latest technologies in safety, efficiency, and performance. More than anything, the new Avalon offers a stronger individual presence, and a clear step up from the Toyota Camry.
To make it easier, since I know you wont read all of that
This car has:
-360 Watt JBL Synthesis Audio System with 12 Speakers (vs. LS's 240... I dont care whether Mark Levinson had anything to do with it or not, power is power to an extent).
-Heated and COOLED front seats (My 56k LS430 which is not an Ultra doesnt have those!)
-Optitron Gauges (Yea, Lexus ripoff right there)
-DYNAMIC LASER CRUISE CONTROL (another feature I really wanted sorely lacking in my LS)
-280HP V6 (I love V8's, but to have a 280hp Avalon on my 290hp tail is a little scary)
-Navigation System with hidden controls
-Xenon/HID Headlamps (finally in a Toyota)
-SMART ACCESS KEY SYSTEM (Yea, my Lexus... nope, another feature I like on the NEW LS, and now the cheap Avalon has it
)-Tiptronic
And I could go on... Im not bringing down the LS mind you, its an awesome car, its just that most of the crud you can now get on this thing for under 40k, is the same reason I wanted the LS Ultra Luxury in the first place. I feel somewhat slighted by Toyota on this one... I thought alot of these features would be kept in the stratusphere for awhile, hell! Theyve even undercut the new RL by several thousand dollars, and STILL have as many features.
(Are those LED Taillights too?...)
02-10-05, 05:07 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
Yup. I sat in the Toyota Avalon today and was equally impressed.. Very, very nice.. It's quick and very luxurious.. I'm not sure what Toyota is doing but I'm sure this Avalon is going to steal some sales away from the LS430. Think about it. An older guy who not ALL that concerned with having that big "L" might decide to save $30,000.00 and buy this Avalon. Most people don't like the looks but I have to disagree with them. I like the exterior of this new Toyota...
02-10-05, 05:25 PM
#3
Pole Position
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano
Yup. I sat in the Toyota Avalon today and was equally impressed.. Very, very nice.. It's quick and very luxurious.. I'm not sure what Toyota is doing but I'm sure this Avalon is going to steal some sales away from the LS430. Think about it. An older guy who not ALL that concerned with having that big "L" might decide to save $30,000.00 and buy this Avalon. Most people don't like the looks but I have to disagree with them. I like the exterior of this new Toyota...
That dash is looking a little like an Infiniti with the flat panel. Plus its FWD and that is a major difference for me between the two. But I have to admit my Dad (mid-70s) is considering selling his almost Avalon for this one. He's got a 2001 XLS with just 27,000 miles on it. Visited me last summer and this Christmas and he loves my LS430 - thought he might try to sneak it on the road back to San Antonio with him.
02-11-05, 11:13 AM
#4
Pole Position
Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano
Yup. I sat in the Toyota Avalon today and was equally impressed.. Very, very nice.. It's quick and very luxurious.. I'm not sure what Toyota is doing but I'm sure this Avalon is going to steal some sales away from the LS430. Think about it. An older guy who not ALL that concerned with having that big "L" might decide to save $30,000.00 and buy this Avalon. Most people don't like the looks but I have to disagree with them. I like the exterior of this new Toyota...
Now ES and Avalon, MAYBE. But LS? Highly doubtful. The ES is still a more luxo car with a better interior than the Avalon. I don't even need to get into the Lexus "experience" that comes with driving one.
02-11-05, 11:22 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by CleanSC
I seriously doubt anyone looking at the LS will ever consider this car. They are worlds apart in price, performance, and offering. $26k FWD V6 versus $56k RWD V8? It's more than double the price. I'm pretty confident no one is cross-shopping these two cars.
Now ES and Avalon, MAYBE. But LS? Highly doubtful. The ES is still a more luxo car with a better interior than the Avalon. I don't even need to get into the Lexus "experience" that comes with driving one.
Now ES and Avalon, MAYBE. But LS? Highly doubtful. The ES is still a more luxo car with a better interior than the Avalon. I don't even need to get into the Lexus "experience" that comes with driving one.
Most people looking at an LS aren't going to buy an Avalon - but some will... Then again, I suppose that's a great plan by Toyota.. If you're going to lose the sale to somebody - it might as well be yourself...
02-11-05, 11:36 AM
#6
Pole Position
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Good point, and according to so many report on Lexus moving up a few steps in Luxury, Performance AND Price, its great that Toyota is covering the near-luxury market.
And come to think of it, when a Toyota can be ordered with so many goodies that are used to be Lexus exclusive, I'm guessing it is a sign that the next generation of Lexus will have TONS of mind-blowing new technologies.
Personally I really don't mind a Toyota moving into the Lexus territory. just like Sal said
Most people looking at an LS aren't going to buy an Avalon - but some will... Then again, I suppose that's a great plan by Toyota.. If you're going to lose the sale to somebody - it might as well be yourself...
And the most expensive car made by Toyota Motor Corp is still badged as a Toyota Century, not a Lexus.
And come to think of it, when a Toyota can be ordered with so many goodies that are used to be Lexus exclusive, I'm guessing it is a sign that the next generation of Lexus will have TONS of mind-blowing new technologies.
Personally I really don't mind a Toyota moving into the Lexus territory. just like Sal said
Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano
Most people looking at an LS aren't going to buy an Avalon - but some will... Then again, I suppose that's a great plan by Toyota.. If you're going to lose the sale to somebody - it might as well be yourself...
02-11-05, 11:50 AM
#7
Pole Position
Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano
One thing that isn't so bad is - they're worlds apart in "price". That's a good thing. With the Avalon, you get a whole heck of a lot for your money. Are they really all that far-off regarding performance? The LS does 0-60 in 5.9; the Avalon in 6.6 - with a V6 that's better on gas.. Not everyone cares about RWD either..
Most people looking at an LS aren't going to buy an Avalon - but some will... Then again, I suppose that's a great plan by Toyota.. If you're going to lose the sale to somebody - it might as well be yourself...
Most people looking at an LS aren't going to buy an Avalon - but some will... Then again, I suppose that's a great plan by Toyota.. If you're going to lose the sale to somebody - it might as well be yourself...
As for RWD: it's the standard for high end luxo cars. Look at BMW and MB. Everything's RWD no matter the size.
Now for the consumer that doesn't care for RWD or even knows the difference, I'm hard-pressed to believe that if he has $60k to burn he would even GLANCE at the Toyota dealership.
I know I sure wouldn't unless I needed 4 Scions.
Either way the Avalon is indeed a sweet ride and a good deal for the price.
I also feel the same for the LS. 
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02-11-05, 12:37 PM
#8
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The Avalon comes that equipped huh... The interior does look pretty nice, and by the way it sounds, it's probably overall a better car than the es330. I drove an 04 330 last year and it is nice and all, but it really did't impress me that much. : 
Now to compare it to the LS that is another ballgame altogether. 
The LS is just in a different league period. And by the way fellas, RWD is not that cool when you're slipping and sliding all over the place 
Especially here in this wack state of MI. 
Domnican Dave.
'01 gs 300
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The Avalon comes that equipped huh...
The interior does look pretty nice, and by the way it sounds, it's probably overall a better car than the es330. I drove an 04 330 last year and it is nice and all, but it really did't impress me that much. : Now to compare it to the LS that is another ballgame altogether. The LS is just in a different league period. And by the way fellas, RWD is not that cool when you're slipping and sliding all over the place Especially here in this wack state of MI. Domnican Dave.
'01 gs 300
02-11-05, 04:47 PM
#9
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I for one am actually a little bit distraught over the new Avalon. I had thought the idea of a Lexus division was so that luxury car buyers would be able to distinguish themselves from other car buyers as well as purchase a better car with more features and better driving dynamics. By making the Avalon so well-equipped at such a low price defeats the purpose of having a Lexus division. I personally feel like the new Avalon should have just been a Lexus and then I would be fine with the car.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
02-11-05, 04:50 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by biggajigga
I for one am actually a little bit distraught over the new Avalon. I had thought the idea of a Lexus division was so that luxury car buyers would be able to distinguish themselves from other car buyers as well as purchase a better car with more features and better driving dynamics. By making the Avalon so well-equipped at such a low price defeats the purpose of having a Lexus division. I personally feel like the new Avalon should have just been a Lexus and then I would be fine with the car.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
Good post...
02-11-05, 05:15 PM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Avalon vs. Caddy, Buick and Lincoln
Originally Posted by biggajigga
I for one am actually a little bit distraught over the new Avalon. I had thought the idea of a Lexus division was so that luxury car buyers would be able to distinguish themselves from other car buyers as well as purchase a better car with more features and better driving dynamics. By making the Avalon so well-equipped at such a low price defeats the purpose of having a Lexus division. I personally feel like the new Avalon should have just been a Lexus and then I would be fine with the car.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
Ironically, I pulled up next to a new Avalon today while test driving an '06 GS300 AWD. It looked pretty big and Lux for a Toyota. I was impressed but I was trying to get my heart rate back to normal after playing with the LS. My mom might like the new Avalon a lot but she loves her old ES300 too much to change.
02-11-05, 05:45 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by biggajigga
I for one am actually a little bit distraught over the new Avalon. I had thought the idea of a Lexus division was so that luxury car buyers would be able to distinguish themselves from other car buyers as well as purchase a better car with more features and better driving dynamics. By making the Avalon so well-equipped at such a low price defeats the purpose of having a Lexus division. I personally feel like the new Avalon should have just been a Lexus and then I would be fine with the car.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
A fully loaded Avalon should be somewhere between $35-40k right? So I believe that is less expensive than just about every single Lexus except the IS (which makes no attempt at being a luxury car over a sports sedan so it doesn't even count). So, I believe that ES buyers will wonder why they purchased an underpowered ES instead of the more powerful and more luxurious Avalon, GS300 buyers will also wonder why they have purchased a "sports sedan" that costs $10k more than the Avalon with only 215hp, or GS430 buyers will wonder why they spent over $50k on their car that has a dated interior and is not as luxurious as a $35k car, and finally owners of the LS (like me) will be upset at why my "prestigious luxury sedan" has nearly the exact same features list as a Toyota.
Regardless about how it drives (it probably has a Lexus level quiet interior with an ES-like ride and handling), it has too many "prestigious features" that make LS owners feel less "prestigious". To be honest, one of the primary reasons I spent the extra $14k on an Ultra Luxury model was to have special features that other cars did not offer.
Heh... man I can see the Car Wash conversation already...
Avalon guy: "That an LS?"
Me: "Yup"
Avalon guy: "Nice car"
Me: "yup"
Avalon guy: "Yea this is my new Avalon... its got some little frills here and there... you know, ventilated seats, laser cruise control, reclining rear seat... just little stuff Im sure you know all about with that fancy LS there"
Me: "........sigh"
Last edited by Playdrv4me; 02-11-05 at 06:16 PM.
02-11-05, 07:20 PM
#13
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Posts: n/a
Here is our thread about the Avalon
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=avalon
I think at this point, the LS has established itself so much, as one of the best cars on the road today, if not the best, that no one will seriously cross shop. Besides price, the LS has RWD, V-8 and the interior is stilll on another level. Simply put the LS is one of the greatest cars ever made.
The Avalon is made here, produced here, its totally for the Ameican market. The LS is sold worldwide. The Avalon will continue to take sales from American companies, who are abondoning people who want a car like this.
Yes, sporty cars/sedans get all the attention but the fact is, they don't sell. Camrys and Accords sell. People want quality, space and a bigger ride.
If anything, I don't see why one would buy a FWD Deville over this. And yes, some ES 330 buyers will cross shop. But the ES is so established, it will still sell. Its simply the most luxurious entry level car. Even with adventerous styling, its a hot seller.
Nissan has proved with the G35/Altima/Maxima you can have different sedans at the same price. They simply appeal to different people.
As much as I like the Avalon, I know a Lexus is built to twice the tolerances of a Toyota. Add dealer service and I would still pick a ES330.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=avalon
I think at this point, the LS has established itself so much, as one of the best cars on the road today, if not the best, that no one will seriously cross shop. Besides price, the LS has RWD, V-8 and the interior is stilll on another level. Simply put the LS is one of the greatest cars ever made.
The Avalon is made here, produced here, its totally for the Ameican market. The LS is sold worldwide. The Avalon will continue to take sales from American companies, who are abondoning people who want a car like this.
Yes, sporty cars/sedans get all the attention but the fact is, they don't sell. Camrys and Accords sell. People want quality, space and a bigger ride.
If anything, I don't see why one would buy a FWD Deville over this. And yes, some ES 330 buyers will cross shop. But the ES is so established, it will still sell. Its simply the most luxurious entry level car. Even with adventerous styling, its a hot seller.
Nissan has proved with the G35/Altima/Maxima you can have different sedans at the same price. They simply appeal to different people.
As much as I like the Avalon, I know a Lexus is built to twice the tolerances of a Toyota. Add dealer service and I would still pick a ES330.
02-12-05, 08:38 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The Avalon is made here, produced here, its totally for the Ameican market. The LS is sold worldwide. The Avalon will continue to take sales from American companies, who are abondoning people who want a car like this.
If anything, I don't see why one would buy a FWD Deville over this. And yes, some ES 330 buyers will cross shop. But the ES is so established, it will still sell. Its simply the most luxurious entry level car. Even with adventerous styling, its a hot seller.
If anything, I don't see why one would buy a FWD Deville over this. And yes, some ES 330 buyers will cross shop. But the ES is so established, it will still sell. Its simply the most luxurious entry level car. Even with adventerous styling, its a hot seller.
The DeVille is also more comfortable to sit in than the Avalon - right now.. The current model.. I hope the Cadillac DTS doesn't come out like a 7-series..
Still, I don't think everybody cares about RWD as much as you think. When I had my Eldorado Touring Coupe, I used to watch the S-Class and 7-Series slide all over the place at launch, fishtailing for awhile before finally taking off. My FWD had no problem.. So I think plenty of people in the North wont be concerned with the Avalon being FWD. And, with a V6 as powerful as the Avalon's, nobody's going to care that it's missing a V8. Especially while saving money every day on gas...
