ah gotcha. the cls55 is still a v8. the cls65, it's from brabus, not from amg. they do all kind of cutting and hacking to fit the engine in. nothing different from say putting the 430 engine on the is to make it is430, or the z4 where they stuffed in the m5 engine.

so the cls is still based on the e class. cls500 i still think gs400 or gs430 can probably hang a bit. but of course, the cls55 is another story that's why we need performance division from lexus

 

Rominl - The CL65 is a real AMG - been out now about 6 months. They build the SL65 as well.
CL65 AMG
AMG-built twin-turbocharged 6.0L 36-valve V-12 engine
604 hp @ 4,800 - 5,100 rpm
738 lb-ft @ 2,000 - 4,000 rpm
0-60 mph in 4.2 seconds

MSRP: $180,375*

Clipped out of the website. At $180K you won't see many! Now put that type of engine in my LS430 and we're talking!!

Bruce

 

Rominl was talking about the CLS not the CL65. As of yet, there is no CLS65 by AMG that I know of for public sale.

The 65 series is still reserved for S, SL, and CL models only.

 

thecls500 looks soooo much better than the e500

 

I looked at the E350 and E500 along with the LS430.

However with all of the reliability problems, I just couldn't seriously consider them.

I think the LS handles as well as the non-sport E350. The sport suspension probably makes the E class more tossable, but I'm more and more impressed with the ride/handling compromise that Lexus engineered into the LS.

 

not to mention that the cl is so big, i think it's based on the s class? probably that's why they have cl600 to begin with @_@

 

Yes the CL is the S class coupe. Remember the previous generation S ? They call both the coupe & sedan versions S500/S600, they only added the new CL designation for the coupe version starting this current generation.

 

This has been an enjoyable thread as any I've read. The LS430 is a apple and the E500 an orange. In the past Mercedes would sell their short wheelbase and long wheelbase versions of the "S" Class. ( Saunder) They would put everything from a six cylinder, diesel and two sizes of V8's in the two versions. Now the US version is the longer wheelbase. Consider the LS430 more in character with the shorter wheelbase "S" Class. Mercedes has always had a mystique with their three point star. Prestige was purchased when you bought an "S" Class no matter if it was new or not. I thought it was tragic and shocking that Princess Diana was killed in one, as safe as they are designed. The "S" Class is a gas guzzler. The LS is not. The LS is pretty quick for what it is at 5.9 sec. 0-60. The E Class is the middle of the Mercedes lineup and the LS is the top of the Lexus lineup. The fact that they cost about the same shows the amount of value the LS provides. It seems now that Lexus is ready to go toe to toe in the Faderland or Bavaria. Since cars have about 30 computers or more arrayed in a Controller Area Network nowdays there are many more electronic features that can be added. Unfortunately this is where Mercedes is having great difficulty. What good is a $90,000 Luxury Sedan that refuses to budge and cannot even be resuscitated at the dealership?

It would be difficult for me to recommend an LS430 when the next generation is only a year away. The new "S" Class will arrive next month. It looks foreign to my eye right now but that is likely the Avant garde effect of the three point star. When the next LS is produced in a long wheelbase the Kings and Princesses may have a choice to make.....

Rock

 

POLL TIME!!!

 

Sigh...
I am going to jump in b/c I understand cars. What I understand is some Mercedes Benz and the owners and previous owners etc are holding on to an image that is now tarnished. On top of that they fail to understand this company is no longer head and shoulders above the rest and is now just competition. What is uncultured, is your post and attack on the members here, which is surprising, since, being a previous or even current Benz owner and a LS 430 owner, I would expect a high-class, well thought out response.

Instead, what we got was a keyboard lashing that wasn't even that serious.


Let us understand, I have a great respect for Mercedes, arguably, they invented the automobie. They were head strong with racing at the companies orgins and have brought countless innovations to the automobile. We are ALL better for it.

Now onto the E-class. It is not LS competiton, period. The GS is E-class competiton. Funny but the E-class has NEVER come close to beating the GS in ANY magazine in any publication in the states since 1998. And guess what, nor has the S-class beaten the LS 400 NOR 430. Of course in Europe, where they value sport b/c on the way to work, they think they drive the "ring" , so Lexus fares worse.

Personally, I would ALMOST get the E before the LS, b/c I think the E is one of the most beautiful sedans created. Even 4 years old, it looks gorgous to me. And many publications complain about the cheap materials in the E, but it seems fine to me. As for the "German" ride, of whatever. The steering is tight, the brakes are nutty and teh suspension is no better than a Lexus. So yeah, it has a tight steering wheel.

The LS is much larger, has 12 less hp and .7 less displacement and is just as fast. The LS handles bigger, well, it is a bigger car. Feature for feature, you can get a loaded LS 430 for the price of a E500 and its almost a no brainer.

On to ownership, its not even close. The E with the ML are so problematic, it is not even funny. Do I need to scan the materials about this? There is nothing fine or presidential about owning a car that is serviced by mechanics all day, all year. Sorry.


So, sorry to burst your bubble but all is not well in stuttgart.

 

actually for a very short while i did see the old gen s class size coupe with the cl500/cl600 badge in the back. so what, owners did it themselves?

 

damn 1sick i just dont have the patience to type out long responses b/c i cant type worth of ******* but if i could i might have said the same thing

 

Been there....done that! Had an E-Class for 5 years. Spent many weeks in the shop for numerous repairs. Transmission finally failed at 24,000 miles (failure of Transmission Control Module) resulting in repair bill of $3000. Sold the Mercedes and bought an LS-430. Absolutely no comparison. I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever with the Lexus...it has been perfect right out of the box. Not to mention, that everything that is OPTIONAL on the Mercedes is STANDARD on the Lexus. Lexus has been rated #1 In Reliability and Dependibility for the past 11 years straight by J.D. Powers. Mercedes has rated 28th out of 38 cars tested. Unless quality drastically improves at Mercedes, I wil never go back. Just take a look at some of the Mercedes Forums and you'll see the myriad of problems those cars are having, right out of the showroom.
My vote goes to the Lexus LS-430.

 

I would say the LS, but not by much.

I like how the E drives, more of a sporty feel to it. And on a modding stand point, I think there are a LOT of more options for the E rather then the LS.

 

With all thats been said about the unreliability of Mercedes, I have to say that most of these studies are all samples and statistics. (I'm just recalling my statistics class and how little is the sample size compared to the universal population)

If you are lucky, like my family and friends who own MBs, you will also have no problems and minimal trips to the dealer.

Same thing too with the LS430. There's been one or two threads complaining about problems in the LS430 recently.

So, it is not saying that once you buy a MB, you will definitely experience problems with it. Have to remember one thing : if a bad experience happens to you, you tell and spread the complaint to 10 people.
However, if nothing goes wrong with the car, you dont tell anybody about it. Or at most, if you receive an excellent experience, you only tell 1-2 people about it.
You will always hear more of the bad things, and less of the good things.

So, take everything with a grain of salt, especially in car forums. Buy whatever car makes you happy.