Phil

I really love the Lexus automobiles and have ordered a '02 LS 430, but I am not immune from looking at other cars in the mean time. I have read quite a bit about the Infinity Q45 and it "appears" to be pretty much on par with Lexus (not to mention $10,000 less). It is pretty quick too, 0-60 - 5.9. It seems also to have most of the amenities that Lexus has.

Does anyone have any real experience with the Q45? Its pros and cons? Would like the opinion from this knowledgeable forum.

Thanks, Phil

LOTC

Those times for the Q45 are false,the LS430 still out accelrated it,even with the Q45's 350 hp's.

although the exterior of the Q looks better.

ST430

Hmmm..here's my response to the Fresh Alloy Forums on this issue of the new Q45 vs. LS430. Remember, this is a pretty pro NIssan Forum:



posted 07-10-2001 11:20 AM
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I don't post here often, most oftenly lurk, but I thought this was too "fun" of a thread to miss.
You may classify me as a newbie, but for those who know me, I am a pretty hardcore Nissan fanatic (4 Maximas, 200SX, Sentra, owner / Maxima.org founder, etc.).

Recently I had to make a decision on this very issue of the new Q45, LS430, S Class, etc. deciding to forgoe my Honda S2000 (yes shame on me, I went to the darkside of Honduh!) for a "little" more room and luxury. So please don't insinuate or label me as a 'finiti or Nissan hater (I probably know more about the original design of the A32 Maximas and VQ30DE then most people here can swallow).

The choices were pretty evident for this class and my criteria even more so: #1 luxury, #2 class, #3 panache, #4 service, #5 sportiness. Driving all the avaiable vehicles out today (740i,540i, E430, S430, GS430, Q45, and of course the LS430 - note I dismissed most of the domestic vehicles).

For MY and I stress MY choice, it came down to 4 vehicles: the S430, Q45, GS430, and LS430. Now mind you, you may think of me as an old geezer, but I am far from it being only a modest mid 20's guy having owned my fair share of sports cars (Supra TT's, S2000's, etc.), but honestly I thought the LS was my last choice on the list! Although the GS430 was very sporty and had the L badge on its hood, it's quirky styling and small interior left it our of the race. The 540i was a fabulous machine especially with the 6-speed sport edition I drove, but the spartan Teutonic experience left me alot to be desired accomodations wise (in terms of luxury and room), so I had to dismiss it. The S-class was definitely the sexiest of the bunch and exudes style and luxury wherever it went. Unfortunately, the sticker price of $70K+ reflected this (more than $20K average than all the others), and with the options I wanted it would of ran more than $85K easily! Sorry MBZ...I'd rather save up for a CL55 AMG first

Now down to the last two final contestents: the new Q45 and the Lexus LS430. The new Q45 interior is a wonderful place to be. It definitely had a stately feel inside, albeit a little more cramped than I had licked. The controls were exactly where I wanted and all the gadgets abound! The drive was nice, nothing really flashy nor exhilarating (what did you expect from a 2 ton + vehicle), but it was comfortable and very quiet. It is definitely a very intimate place to be, and if things were based on this alone, it would have easily won. Which brings me to what disuaded my decision against it. Having driven the car, and finally stepping out to glance all around it, you'll note the beautifully conservative rear end with the Audi lights and C-pillars reminiscent of the last GS300. But by the time you go to the front, all the class and conservatism quickly disappears as the funny looking gatling gun headlights (that aren't even that bright as claimed), and the bullfrom front end with funky grill just mismatches the rest of the vehicle. Usually, Nissan has had a bad habbit of "half-assing" a cars design in the rear flank (witness the Maxims, Altimas, Sentras, etc.). This time around it looks as if the designers started back yonder and went forward to the front and in the 23rd hour concocted this beastial design. It flat out makes the car look funny! Some may like the controversy, BUT for me needing to impress my affluent constituents, colleagues, friends, and family, it was just not to be.

Now onto the final anaylsis of my LS430. Yes, the car is very sedate, conservative, and as quoted by others, very "vanilla-ish", but the best vanilla you've ever tasted (as one publication stated). The ride is very comfortable, and with the sports suspension package, can handle it's own through the corners (folks please don't raise the handling issue on me, I drove an S2000 which I easily declare one of the most exhilarating drives in the world bar none). The interior is not as intimate as the Q without a doubt, but it definitely exudes luxury, and can more than hold all adults inside very comfortable (I like it to a big rolling leather couch). Gadgets do aboung, but can be quite costly ($20k option for the air suspension, lazer cruize control, massaging back seats, etc.), but in optioned base form (DVD Nav, Mark Levinson which blows away any BOSE or HK based system, etc.) it is quite a value! Looks wise, many have pointed that it is eerily reminiscent of the last S-class and is way too conservative, but have you seen it lowered with rims and a kit!? It defintely has the stately luxurious panache that most people who buy this car want when you first look at it: big, intimidating, and classy. My decision was just about made up when I took it for a ride, and although it costs a little more than the Q, i believe the service and treatment you get (even me, a little snobby "youngin" ), more than settled the deal.

Again, all of this is MHO, and shared to you by a pretty pro-Japanese enthusiasts who actually HAD TO MAKE THIS DECISION, instead of just reading magazines and talking out of their ***** (as many people that previously posted have done). Whatever ails you, be it be it the Inifinit, Lexus, or the Mercedes, as long as YOU'RE happy with it, WHO CARES!!! Sorry for the long winded response

Stephen

I looked at the Q, its fun but I dont consider it a "real" luxury car, its a good effort. The interior/build/ride just arent up there with the Lexus yet.

DROD2045

In your opinion it isnt but according to mags, it is on par with the LS or surpasses it (Motor Trend).


About the person who says the 0-60 time is false, youre wrong. Q performs as specd (Car and Driver). Plus, as with any car, it gets faster with break in. The Qs drive by wire system adapts to your style of driving as well so if you are an aggressive driver, the gas pedal will be more punchy.


Q and LS are both great cars. Test drive them both and dont write either car off because of what people say on these boards...Or any other board for that matter.

Phil

ST 430 - Thank you for your very thorough reply. That is what I was looking for. There are a couple of knocks on the Infinity, albeit minor, but are you aware of them? 1. Wind noise and 2. The GPS was difficult to read. Are you aware of those? Also, the seating in the rear was only comfortable for two adults.

I am not looking for reasons to either not buy, or buy an Infinity or Lexus, I just want to insure I am buying the BEST overall car for the money - be it $60,000 or $70,000. I just don't want to have buyers remorse after I make the purchase. However, I do lean toward the Lexus 430 UL.

Thanks Again. Phil

bobc

Does driver school candidate mean the driver is under 21 or what?

ST430

Phil - HAppy to assist other enthusiasts in any way possible, be it Lex or 'Finiti! Concerning the two annoyances on the Q, I was aware of neither of these traits. Although I must admit, I did not drive the Q thoroughly as I did the LS. Your presumption the rear end seating does bode with what I surmised also: the Q's interior is somewhat smaller than the LS, even though the exterior is larger (strange isn't it?).

I was like you also, looking for the best value for my money, and in the end, the Lexus treatment, quality, and ASSURANCE (due to past history) persuaded me over to the big L. Well that and the fact the Q's front end is pretty fugly!

DROD2045

bobc: driver school candidate is for the number of posts you have. If you are a new member, youll have that name. When you move up to the k's, itll say club lexus paid member.



ABout the room in the Q. Im 6'4 and have sat in the back with the front seat all the way back. Fine for me to get in but could be different for others. The feeling of the LS interior is much larger than the Q. But the LS's rear leg room is larger than the Qs but only by 3 tenths of an inch. SO not much difference.


If you are looking for luxury with some sport (sport package), look at the LS a little closer.
If you are looking for luxury with some more sporting character than the LS, look at the Q a little more.
The LS has a few features not available in the Q that yu may really want like a beverage cooler or massaging seats. Q tops at just under the 60k mark with al of the LS' feartures safe for those two but you may prefer the L over the 3/4 circle with a triangle (hard to descrive that logo). Q has more style inside and out IMO , but go for what your heart desires.

Sal Collaziano

Sorry for digging up and old thread. Actually, I don't know why it's so bad. I own several forums and love to see old topics dug-up.. It means more action on the forum..

Anyways.. Wind noise? Does the new Q45 have wind noise as well? And, isn't the ride in the LS softer than in the Q? I'm wondering what made the Q45 more luxurious on the inside...

MJA1951

I just bought a 04 LS 430 after comparing it to a M45, Q45 and an E 500. My last car was a 97 Grand Marquis and after driving the M45, it did not seem much better than my Mercury. The Q45 was better, but to me it didn't compare to the LS 430, in quality, quietness, room or ride. The Infinity's just don't seem upt to the level of the Lexus.

The E-500 was nice but seems a lot smaller, especially in the rear seat room.

At the end, the LS 430 better in most categories. I've had mine since November and I is every bit of what I expected, although I have two minor concerns with my car. A slight rough cold idle at 1200-1400 rpm and the Tire Monitor which has given two false warnings, once in the snow and once when cold.

LS430inTX

Before I bought my LS430 I test drove a number of automobiles the Q45 being one of them. The Q45 is a nice car to be sure but when I test drove the LS430 the search was OVER. The LS was more quite, smoother ride, more luxurious, and prettier than the Q45 (don't like the front of the Q). The only thing I could say the Q beats the LS is in price and handling. But then handling is always a tradeoff for ride and ride was more important to me. I found the Lexus V-8 to be quiter, smoother, and seemed to have all around better driveability. (on a side note- the LS has the adaptive drive-by-wire throttle also).

There was a post in this forum about Lexus vs. Mercedes. I replied and stated a few reasons in that post which I will repeat here:
My LS430 is my first luxury car. I shopped Mecerdes but things that made Lexus the winner over Mercedes for me: 1) Price 2) Reliability history 3) resale value 4) understated design 5) Lexus owner testimonies

When I look closely at the design details of the LS430, words like "subdued", "muted", "graceful", and "understated" come to mind - words that are incompatible with "attitude", "ego", or "attention grabbing".

Even though I was comparing the Mercedes in that post, except for the price, I could easily use the same words when comparing the Q45. When I was shopping for a new car, I had no preconcieved notions. I was open to all. It wasn't easy to dismiss the Q45. It was number 1 on my list before I test drove the LS. But in the end I chose the LS for the reasons stated above. I realize this is all subjective. If you haven't already done so, I would recommend you identify all the things that are most important to you in a luxury car, prioritize them, and then do the research yourself. Just my 2 cents...

Sal Collaziano

Thank you. I'm finding exactly what I wanted to find here... The Lexus appears to be more refined than the Q45...

Brett

IMO, the LS is better than the Q in every category, not by much, but better nonetheless. Once you factor in resale, then there is no competition.

LS430inTX

Yup. That resale value was a real eye opener for me. I was floored when I saw how much value the Q lost. In fact, Infinities as a whole do not retain their value like a Lexus does. In addition to researching resale values from the likes of Kelly Blue Book, NADA, and others, I did a local comparison. I looked at one year old Q45s at the Infinity dealer and one year old LSs at the Lexus dealer. One example I remember was that a year old Q45 with the "Premium" package went for $38K vs a year old LS with UltraLuxury package going for 55K. In this particular "real world" example and using, as a baseline, the retail price when the cars were new, the Q45 lost 38% of it's value while the LS430 lost only 21% during that first year. Again, this was a "local" real-world example. This difference will vary from city to city.