IBRalph

When I was in the market for a luxury car a month ago, I narrowed it down to either an 2005/6 ES vs an older LS 430 (I wanted to keep it at or below $25k). I found a 2002 LS 430 at the local CarMax here in San Diego and it only had 42k mi. They were asking $22.950. I talked to a Lexus service manager and asked him if the new features of a 2002 LS 430 would be found in a newer 2005 ES. He said no, the two could not be compared. The LS 430 would be the better car because the quality is so much superior.

I worked at Microsoft from 1987 to 1999. Bill Gates was into cars. He drove a Jaguar and had several other cars, including a rare, limited edition Porsche that sold for $250k. Porsche made so few that they refused to make one available for crash tests so they could be approved for operating in the U.S. I guess he would take it out on a private track to have fun and put it through its paces. Anyway, when the LS 400 came out in 1990, he dropped the Jag and went for the LS. He was still driving LS's when I left in 1999 and I assume that is what he drives today. That told me the LS was probably the highest quality luxury car available.

I bought the 2002 LS 3 weeks ago and we are very happy with it. I am not looking for a status symbol, just a comfortable, reliable car that I will probably drive for 5 years or more.

usermel

Great info Ralph, you made a good choice going with the LS430. The 2002 LS should have less issues than the 2001 LS. I(I own a 2001 LS430) had some TSB's all took care of buy the dealer. 1st year models typically have some issues so 2nd-3rd year models tend to have less issues because there cleared up from the issues of the intro model.

I guess Lexus quality isnt overlooked by the super wealthy in the world. HAHAHAHAHA! Mr.Gates in a Lexus says alot about the cars we own. He can have any car he wants and him buying a Lexus shows that Lexus is seen more and more as a top of the line luxury car. Thanks for that info very surprising!!!!

(L.G.N.M)

GRAND_LS 4

iTrader: (2)

His burgundy LS was sold on ebay a few years back, maybe 2. New CEO of ford drives an LS430. Which does not necessarily mean anything, just an interesting fact.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Certainly there are people who aren't up to a $25K LS430 for various reasons. But there are TONS of people who don't fall into the scenario that you described above -- they aren't worried about looking like they're trying to be a baller to other uninformed people (people who don't understand that it's a very sensible car to own), or on a tight enough budget that they can't spend an extra $700 per year for insurance and fuel. Many of the people who opt for the new Impala or Passat or whatever instead of an LS430 of equivalent cost may end up spending MORE on that car in the long run than they would on the LS -- depreciation, repairs, insurance, etc. I'm not saying that I don't understand why EVERYONE doesn't just buy an LS -- I'm saying I don't understand why a lot more people aren't aware enough to be buying them.
And BTW, there's no reason that an LS needs special, overly expensive maintenance. It can live on the same procedures that a Camry does. Sure, it'll cost a few bucks more, but it's not as if it's $1000 every time you turn around.

rjm

I couldn't agree more. I have had an '08 ES350 for a loaner and I have had an RX350 for a loaner when I was having my '05 LS430 serviced. I couldn't wait to get back into my own car. The ES350 suffered from throttle lag, a decent suspension, and horsepower and torque....it was B-O-R-I-N-G to drive. The RX350 was like driving a truck. Keep the LS. You will be SORRY if you trade it.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I couldn't have said it any better

What I like to add is for people who follow all dealer suggested unnecessary routine checks and inspections, the maintance on a LS would be a lot more then a Camry. Example would be my Ultra Luxury LS have 8 interior air filters! I am sure those cost a grip to replace if done by the dealer! But obviously those people are not smart enough to buy a used LS over a new Camry.

airtime

I'm too lazy to look it up but I only know of the one behind the glove box and the one in the trunk. Where are the others Thanks.

PS: On Bill Gates driving... I'm in Seattle and remember years back seeing him driving his Jag. A super rich Billionair driving himself, that's a sight to see. Also, his Porsche was a 959.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

To clarify, I said interior air filters, not specifically AC filter.

1 for the front AC in the glove box.
1 for the rear AC in the trunk.
Each front and rear seat got 1 air filter for their cooling feature, they are all under each seat.
2 air filter are on the side interior trim piece right next to each rear seat, I am not sure what they are filtering, the owner's manual calls it the garnish filter, my feeling is they filter the air coming out of the rear AC vents on the roof.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

The public is VERY aware of the used LS430 market, otherwise it cannot claim its high resale value. The scenario I described earlier in my post is why they rather buy a new Honda accord or Toyota Camry, rather than an LS430. Little things add up and most people rather put their money towards something else than their car. It's easier for us car enthusiast to understand why a used LS430 is a better deal, but some people want the piece of mind warranty and the feeling of buying a new car rather than someone else's old toy.

These little maintenance jobs add up. Those who buy LS430s aren't going to get down dirty and do their own fluid change. A typical oil change at Lexus will range, with $50 usually being the normal. For a typical Honda/Toyota dealer, their price will be $30. Price will differentiate even further when you get to the higher mileage intervals. Spark plugs for the LS430 is about $9/plug and you have 8 of them. A V6 Camry will only require regular $2 plugs.

I understand that you can get more for your money with the LS430, but the statement still holds true...the initial cost to buy the car is cheap, but the long term will make or break the bank. Many people rather not waste money on insurance, gas, maintenance if it can be spent elsewhere, like their homes or their own personal hobby. I know that If I wasn't such a car guy, I would have opt to save money by buying an accord, just so I can use that money towards my home audio setup (which runs thousands btw; hence why a couple change here and there counts )

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Uhhhh..... the LS has a LOW resale value

Spoken just like one of the people we're referring to who doesn't get it.

Again, you don't get it, do you? You've accounted for almost $100 per year. WOW! That LS is WAAAY more expensive to own, isnt' it?
And yet again..... you still don't get it. You're making the usual uninformed arguments that keep most people paying retail for a new turd instead of buying an insane car value. We acknowledged that there are people who NEED to save that $700 per year, but we're not talking about those people, yet you're acting like EVERYONE is in that boat. Thanks for providing a 1st hand example of what we're talking about when we say we can't understand how more people don't get it.

mstrange

I had the same decision about 6 months ago and went with the LS. I drove a new ES350 and it was nice, but not close to the LS. Then I took my LS430 in for service and got a brand new ES350 for a loaner and again it was nice, but when I got back into my LS it was a hugh difference!

Buy the LS - larger, quieter, great engine etc.

Mike

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Hey buddy, you don't get it, if you drive a Camry instead of the LS, you save enough money to buy a few cups of starbucks each year!!

Some people rather have some coffees then a world class top of the line luxury car

BTW, let's not talk about this anymore please, we want less people wanting a used LS, so used LS's value stay low for us to buy!

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

LOL I agree. I'm thinking of selling my '03 to my brother and getting an '04+ just for the minor updates (not at all sure it's really worth doing), so I'm hoping that the masses don't discover them and driving the prices up. Seriously, it seems that there's been a rash of new interest from people who are discovering these cars lately. I seem to see (on the internet forums) waaay more younger people buying them now...

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Price differences between 03' and 04' is pretty small, worth it or not is totally subjective.

That is why we have to stop telling people how cheap they are to own, we need to start spreading rumors of these cars are very unreliable, and services and repairs cost at the dealer are absolutely ridiculous, figure about a few thousands dollars every 5k miles to keep it running

I want the used market for the LSs dead so I can buy a low mileage 06' UL next year for $15k

That is due to the new VIP modding scene, don't worry, there are not that many of them. The general public still have no clue. Everyone I know that saw me got a 05' LS all think it is crazy expensive to drive one!

I change my own oil, every oil change cost me $15....LOL...

I am submerged in total luxury and I am spending less then guys who buy their Hyundai Sonata new and maintain it at the dealer.....LMAO!!

OBI_agent

What???? Really??? I thought LS430 had the highest resale value At least over here in the harsh climate of UAE, it has a great resale value.

BTW,, you were not being sarcastic right?