ls 430 vs acura?
07-22-09, 08:04 PM
#46
Now that would be a much better discussion/comparison.
The RL is suppose to be a little higher level then the ES, but the ES had been pushed upmarket so much in recent years, a fully loaded ultra luxury ES350 is almost equal in content to a brand new RL. Similar power, and the 4WD in the RL is FWD base, that car got a FWD feel to it. The only feature the ES doesn't have is the rear side shades. Similar price too, a fully loaded ES is only like $3k~$4k less then a fully loaded RL. Lexus just kept pushing higher and higher while Acura kept standing still. It took Acura forever to realized the TSX REALLY needed a V6. Honda just don't like to push, or change, they are very conservative.
Personally, I rather have a ES350 ultra luxury package over a new RL. Lexus just got that ultra quietness and silkiness that no Acura has.
The RL is suppose to be a little higher level then the ES, but the ES had been pushed upmarket so much in recent years, a fully loaded ultra luxury ES350 is almost equal in content to a brand new RL. Similar power, and the 4WD in the RL is FWD base, that car got a FWD feel to it. The only feature the ES doesn't have is the rear side shades. Similar price too, a fully loaded ES is only like $3k~$4k less then a fully loaded RL. Lexus just kept pushing higher and higher while Acura kept standing still. It took Acura forever to realized the TSX REALLY needed a V6. Honda just don't like to push, or change, they are very conservative.
Personally, I rather have a ES350 ultra luxury package over a new RL. Lexus just got that ultra quietness and silkiness that no Acura has.
Like what you guys said above about the LS vs. RL, the RL is Acura's top dog with excellent build quality. You can't compare Acura's top dog to Lexus entry level luxury sedan...just as you can't compare the LS to the RL. No comparison IMHO...the RL will win over ES anyday of the week. BTW, some are able to get a RL with TECH for around $42-45k, which is where the ES350 UL resides.
07-23-09, 02:35 PM
#49
Look, the Toyota Sienna van's JBL system sounds better than the LS430 and my SC430's ML sound system. I also own a 2004 Sienna XLE Limited. The Acura Bose system has a better range of sound and the bass doesn't vibrate the back dash or seat like Lexus. ML needs to be put to the curb and Lexus needs a new partner.
07-23-09, 05:03 PM
#50
Look, the Toyota Sienna van's JBL system sounds better than the LS430 and my SC430's ML sound system. I also own a 2004 Sienna XLE Limited. The Acura Bose system has a better range of sound and the bass doesn't vibrate the back dash or seat like Lexus. ML needs to be put to the curb and Lexus needs a new partner.
Bass = +1
Mid = 0
Treble = 0
ASL ON
Surround OFF
I am really shock at how good the Sienna's JBL system is!
Anyway, sorry for going off-topic.
07-24-09, 09:02 PM
#51
Lexus Champion
Now that would be a much better discussion/comparison.
The RL is suppose to be a little higher level then the ES, but the ES had been pushed upmarket so much in recent years, a fully loaded ultra luxury ES350 is almost equal in content to a brand new RL.
Personally, I rather have a ES350 ultra luxury package over a new RL. Lexus just got that ultra quietness and silkiness that no Acura has.
The RL is suppose to be a little higher level then the ES, but the ES had been pushed upmarket so much in recent years, a fully loaded ultra luxury ES350 is almost equal in content to a brand new RL.
Personally, I rather have a ES350 ultra luxury package over a new RL. Lexus just got that ultra quietness and silkiness that no Acura has.
07-24-09, 09:23 PM
#52
ES350 vs. 05' RL with the 3.5L V6, similar power/torque, size, features, price and feel. I do agree the RL's interior is much nicer, the exterior is also a hair more upscale, not by much though.
I mean people are saying the RL is similar to the LS430, come on, that is ridiculous. The ES350 is A LOT more similar to the RL then the LS430.
Sure the ES350 have a lot in common to the Camry, but the RL also have quite a bit in common with the Accord.
The RL is simply very conservative and outdated, making lower end model like the ES350 caught up to it.
Last edited by BNR34; 07-24-09 at 09:29 PM.
07-24-09, 10:27 PM
#53
Lexus Champion
Yes I am for real, I could be a hair biasd, but let me explain:
ES350 vs. 05' RL with the 3.5L V6, similar power/torque, size, features, price and feel. I do agree the RL's interior is much nicer, the exterior is also a hair more upscale, not by much though.
I mean people are saying the RL is similar to the LS430, come on, that is ridiculous. The ES350 is A LOT more similar to the RL then the LS430.
Sure the ES350 have a lot in common to the Camry, but the RL also have quite a bit in common with the Accord.
The RL is simply very conservative and outdated, making lower end model like the ES350 caught up to it.
ES350 vs. 05' RL with the 3.5L V6, similar power/torque, size, features, price and feel. I do agree the RL's interior is much nicer, the exterior is also a hair more upscale, not by much though.
I mean people are saying the RL is similar to the LS430, come on, that is ridiculous. The ES350 is A LOT more similar to the RL then the LS430.
Sure the ES350 have a lot in common to the Camry, but the RL also have quite a bit in common with the Accord.
The RL is simply very conservative and outdated, making lower end model like the ES350 caught up to it.
GS350 awd is direct competitor for RL... WE ALL KNOW THAT... no reason to disgrace the RL with ES comparison... only in CL u see this crazy talk, no where else...
I remember when I was working for Infiniti back in the day, customer comparing Q45 V8 to ES300 V6(sure the Q45 looked like crap back then, but com'on), I was like WTF... get out of my face...
Last edited by KILLERGS4; 07-24-09 at 10:54 PM.
07-24-09, 10:31 PM
#54
Lexus Champion
you probably don't care, but the RL beat the GS in many comparison test.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta.../pageNumber=11
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/2005/050801-4.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/pr...9/article.html
and GS won some also...
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta.../pageNumber=11
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/2005/050801-4.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/pr...9/article.html
and GS won some also...
Last edited by KILLERGS4; 07-24-09 at 10:55 PM.
07-25-09, 01:33 AM
#56
I guess cars, or most things in life, are just personal preferences.
07-25-09, 10:41 AM
#57
RL to GS
As for subjective, the automobile magazines are ALL SUBJECTIVE. Back in the days when BMW beat competitors on performance numbers, it was always "the BMW was better on the track..." Now that BMW is not ahead of the competitors, they still win because of "German handling" and "it felt better..." FELT BETTER !!!!
Just take the recent, or maybe last month, Car & Driver where there was the G37x, BMW3??x, the Audi A4 2.0T, and TL-SHAWD. Anyway, TL comes in last, and the G37x wins almost all peformance numbers, and magazine even complimented it on how good it was. Then comes the results... BMW #1, "but very close" as the magazine says. They noted several problems, including the "leatherette" interior... NOT LEATHER !!! But again, noted that it won due to "German handling" and how it "felt better." Ugh...
No wonder I stopped reading those turb auto magazines so long ago. I can do my own research online so much easier than reading these guys OPINIONS... which is purely what they are.
07-26-09, 10:59 AM
#58
And to top it off, they are MUCH more irrelevent nowadays than they were say, 10-20 years ago. Back then they weren't perfect and you couldn't rely on the comparisons completely, but at least I could read a review by an editor that I had followed for years (Brock Yates, for example, but there were also many others) and while I probably wouldn't agree with everything he'd written when I actually test drove the car for myself, I was able to get a reasonable idea of what I would think about the car(s) from the magazine reviews. NOW, the magazines all seem to be staffed by metrosexual mini-van driving non-car people and I can't find any rhyme or reason to their opinions. I might generally agree once I drive the car for myself, or I might think WTF were they thinking when they reached some of their conclusions?
07-26-09, 11:11 AM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
You cannot be upset that people do compare the ES to the RL. Even in the ES and RL forums, they are compared. Sounds like Acura has a BIG PROBLEM is their supposed "Flagship" is compared to the ES.
While the RL is in the GS class, the ES does offer most items and some items the RL doesn't have when its loaded. Both cars are based on lesser cars (Camry for ES/RL for Accord). Here is a thread where a few people do recommend looking at a used LS (RL vs ES comparo)
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...e-opinons.html
If this forum is that bad, why post on it?
Last edited by LexFather; 07-26-09 at 11:35 AM.
07-26-09, 11:22 AM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
The bottom line is the current gen RL is a good car but good doesn't cut it in this class and never has. AWD only, V-6 only, dismal MPG, Accord looks, no prestige, slow acceleration cannot overcome a nice interior, some nice features/NAV that it offers. Its not a bad car at all though this generation is ten times better than the last generation RL (though I prefer the last RL styling).
Tee are correct. THe RL is based on the Honda midsize platform shared with the Accord. The proprotions of the RL are 100% Honda and Accord there is nothing luxurious about it. The front end is nice but not they botched it with the new beak. I mean this is a car that has had 6-8k REBATES off MSRP for hte last 4 years. That should tell people something.
Except you are wrong. The LS debuted as a LS worldwide in 1989. It had over 1 billion invested in it to make it a seperate car. Only in Japan was it rebadged a Celsior. Its not like they made the Celsior and started rebadging it and calling it a LS.
The RL is a Honda Legend in Japan/Europe rebadged here as a RL.
The RL has been a complete and dismal FAILURE for Honda since 1996. Its missed every sales target and done nothing to elevate the brand. You should read the Euro reviews like I do.
Clarkson has said he wasn't even aware it existed.
CAR mag has said its a Legend only during its own lunchtime
This thread reminds me of a
There is no vs between the two cars end of story. My sister in law has an 07 and when she let me take it for a ride I had a severe case of claustrophobic creep up on me, the cabin is too small for someone over 6ft. It ride was stiffer and I could hear the engine more than I would liked. However the layout of the controls and nav were nice but looked like a Honda. Overseas the Acura RL is a Honda Legend, Acura to me has not separated itself from Honda in their designs, when I see a Acura I see a Honda. When you look at Lexus or Infiniti they do not look like Toyota and Nissan (IMO) they have separated the looks enough that say it is a step up.
There is no vs between the two cars end of story. My sister in law has an 07 and when she let me take it for a ride I had a severe case of claustrophobic creep up on me, the cabin is too small for someone over 6ft. It ride was stiffer and I could hear the engine more than I would liked. However the layout of the controls and nav were nice but looked like a Honda. Overseas the Acura RL is a Honda Legend, Acura to me has not separated itself from Honda in their designs, when I see a Acura I see a Honda. When you look at Lexus or Infiniti they do not look like Toyota and Nissan (IMO) they have separated the looks enough that say it is a step up.
What is the point of the two pictures? You already said oversees the RL is the Legend (Acura should have kept the Legend name here), so of course the two will look the same.
Same can be said about the LS430 and Celsior (before Toyota release Lexus domestically), they're the same car.
I do agree with you that Lexus and Infiniti do a better job of differentiating themselves from their parent company vehicles. Of these two, Infiniti does a better job I think.
Same can be said about the LS430 and Celsior (before Toyota release Lexus domestically), they're the same car.
I do agree with you that Lexus and Infiniti do a better job of differentiating themselves from their parent company vehicles. Of these two, Infiniti does a better job I think.
The RL is a Honda Legend in Japan/Europe rebadged here as a RL.
Wow. Are you nuts? I am slightly offended with that one! Let's not forget what we're talking about with the 2000-2004 generation of the RL's! If you think the styling is bland, it just doesn't automatically make it a bad car, does it?
I still have my 02 RL, and yes, it doesn't compare to the CURRENT LS, but to criticize it for "super bland and interior of crub"? That isn't fair. And to think--all of the car mags and critics DID compare the 02 RL to the 02 LS!!! It's either an insult to those Lexus owners, because the Acura is so "cheap", or a total compliment to Acura to be compared to a Lexus which cost $15k MORE. http://www.automotive.com/2002/09/acura/rl/index.html
We could debate whether or not the styling is attractive or not..(don't forget that bodystyle was redesigned 1999, but talk about bang for the buck, and talk about reliability, and talk about having all the bells and whistles as STANDARD options for the $ and it was/is a GREAT car. We're all a little spoiled being owners of LS's, but let's not bash the RL because of it's styling. I could post links to dozens of rave reviews from all the auto magazines, etc.
For it's time, the RL was an INCREDIBLE car. The car came LOADED, as the only options were color and nav!! The sticker was slightly over $40k while the LS was almost $60k???? Hmm...
If we want to compare the current RL to a Lexus, you can find a comparison done in 2005 here. And hold on to your britches, but the RL finished AHEAD of the GS430. LOLOL!!!! They reviewers said the ONLY thing preventing the RL from taking 1st place was it's smaller size, lack of v8, and lack of rwd. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
btw...did i tell you i can operate the nav on my RL while it's in motion?
I still have my 02 RL, and yes, it doesn't compare to the CURRENT LS, but to criticize it for "super bland and interior of crub"? That isn't fair. And to think--all of the car mags and critics DID compare the 02 RL to the 02 LS!!! It's either an insult to those Lexus owners, because the Acura is so "cheap", or a total compliment to Acura to be compared to a Lexus which cost $15k MORE. http://www.automotive.com/2002/09/acura/rl/index.html
We could debate whether or not the styling is attractive or not..(don't forget that bodystyle was redesigned 1999, but talk about bang for the buck, and talk about reliability, and talk about having all the bells and whistles as STANDARD options for the $ and it was/is a GREAT car. We're all a little spoiled being owners of LS's, but let's not bash the RL because of it's styling. I could post links to dozens of rave reviews from all the auto magazines, etc.
For it's time, the RL was an INCREDIBLE car. The car came LOADED, as the only options were color and nav!! The sticker was slightly over $40k while the LS was almost $60k???? Hmm...
If we want to compare the current RL to a Lexus, you can find a comparison done in 2005 here. And hold on to your britches, but the RL finished AHEAD of the GS430. LOLOL!!!! They reviewers said the ONLY thing preventing the RL from taking 1st place was it's smaller size, lack of v8, and lack of rwd. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
btw...did i tell you i can operate the nav on my RL while it's in motion?
Clarkson has said he wasn't even aware it existed.
CAR mag has said its a Legend only during its own lunchtime
Last edited by LexFather; 07-26-09 at 11:43 AM.