AlexusAnja

I was just talking about the photo in question about the current RL... not back in time to the genesis of how both cars came to be. If we talk about the RL as a "new model" and not a renaming of the Legend, then you can look at the RL as a separate vehicle that was rebadged outside of the U.S.

No matter what... Honda dropped the ball with the RL and has continued to dribble the ball, with no end in sight. Sure, it's nice to be the environmentally conscious manufacturer, but do that with Honda. Acura is to fight with the big boy luxo makers... so you have to come to a gun fight with your biggest gun, not a pee shooter.

LexFather

With the new Honda CEO saying V-8s and RWD is not coming, the RL will forever be stuck where it is. NOWHERE. My advice if you want a RL and want a Honda product, save the money buy a new Accord. It looks better, is faster, is just as big and you only lose a little bit of build quality, HIDs and AWD.

Funny but I said this what over 7 years ago

LS430inDE.

Concluding a product is better, solely on sales doesn't indicate much. We can verify this phenomonon observing how many VHS movies/videos/tapes/units were sold, in comparison to BETA.

AlexusAnja

??? I don't get your point. I presume you're meaning that Beta was a better format in quality, but VHS won because more people embraced that format than Beta. If so, then that's how life is. The "better" in terms of quality doesn't always win out, it's some other factor that makes it "better" for the general public.

In the case of Beta, is was just purely the length of how much "video" you could record onto the tape. Sure, Beta was smaller, quailty of video was better, but it held less video in terms of volume. If I have to carry two to three small tapes to equate to one slightly larger tape, then why would I want to carry that many tapes?

Before Blu-ray, Sony's track record or creating the "it gadget" was not very good, starting with Beta, then it was the MD disc, and they dropped the ball on missing the "I-pod" craze too.

Much like Beta, the RL is like Beta. Sure, the quality is probably better or exceed most in it's class, but it's pushed into the wrong class when compared with other vehicles (it's sized to beat a GS, but because it's a flagship, is pushed to be with the LS, S, 7, Q (or M), and the such) where it can't compete.

Money for money, I would probably buy the RL over the GS350AWD because I think the RL offers more for the money, but up against the LS... not so much of a choice.

Also, back to definition of better. Quality does not always equate to embracement by the consumer. Some times it's a necessity or a certain feature that grabs the consumer. Here in US where roads are big, gas is cheap (relatively), and we're sized bigger.. we love our big sedans with big engines. Over in Asia, I'm sure an RL sized vehicle would sell better than a super large LS or S series because the infrastructure is not as good, fuel is much more expensive, and they just don't need the extra leg and head room.

LS430inDE.

You DID get my point! Beta was the better technology!!

btw...Sony DID have their IPOD craze. It was called the Walkman!...and we should give their TRANSISTOR RADIO at least an honorable mention!?

AlexusAnja

ha ha... you got me. The "original" IPOD, just in tape format. I had one (via inheritence from my dad) the Walkman that recorded. Use to record all the junk off the radio and then "remix" to another tape. It was good for it's time, oh wait, still is good !!! The LS430 still has a tape player.

I think this thread is pretty much dead... we've diversed and are now talking the good ole '80's...

KILLERGS4

to express my opinions and views like everyone else, and to gain more in-depth info on Lexus cars.
1SICKLEX is only moderator who wants to give me hard time

LexFather

Interesting Beta/VHS discussion. Look I am not here to crap on the last gen RL as its so average there is no reason to crap on it. Did you know that Honda was so drained with the last gen RL team 1/2 way through the new RL redesign, they were all reassigned elsewhere? Seems the new team didn't do much better.

The facts are the old Legend GS is the better vehicle. The RL offered NAV and HIDs over it, that is all. The Legend GS had a 6 speed auto and 230hp. THe RL debuts with a 4 speed and 210hp. It was no faster or more luxurious than an ES 300. It got creamed in intial reviews and then wasn't even included anymore. The last gen RL shared over 40% of its parts with the outgoing Legend. That 2004 RL was using 1991 Car parts. While the LEgend was and is a "Legend" the RL became the 10 grand bargain on Don's Used Car Lot.

No one is basing their entire argument on sales.

The reason why Lexus is 10 steps above Acura is b/c they learn from mistakes, their management team is top notch and Toyota is 150% committed to the brand. The first gen GS 300 here was similar to the 1st/2nd gen RL in that it offered most of what the Germans did in a larger package at a smaller/same price. It was at least RWD though but only an I-6 was offered. The 93-97 GS never sold well outside the first year of sales (20,000). Well Lexus came with the new GS 300/400 in 98 and hasn't looked back since. Acura continues to pawn off the RL with the same mistakes over and over.

LexFather

Well if thats the case that is fine. However you said this


If you seriously think CL disrespects car brands that bad and CL is the only place with "crazy talk" you must only post at www.jesusaves.com and nowhere else. As one on multiple forums you will not get a fairer and more unbiased response anywhere else (car forums). Will people prefer Lexus? Of course! This is a Lexus forum. The same goes for the Acura, Benz, BMW, etc forums. Except the usual responses are full or unintelligent flames about the competition and its A HELL OF A LOT WORSE.

maying856

iTrader: (31)

Owned Hondas and Acuras in the past, now own a Lexus. Only thing I like about Honda/Acura is that they are more fun to drive, IMO Honda makes some of the worlds best NA motors. But overall Lexus is on a different league. Moreover the new generation Honda and Acuras look like total ***, especially the TSX, TL, and RL.

Och

iTrader: (3)

My five cents.

Right now great deals can be had on a used LS430. Used LS430s go for pretty much the same money as used Acura RL's - maybe 2-3k more expensive. I would hands down take the LS over RL, its just a better car. It is also a much more expensive car when new, about 15K more than the RL. Dont get me wrong, both are great cars, both are well built and have top quality materials, but the LS is just more prestigious, spacious, more powerful, smoother, and carries more status. The only reason to consider the RL over LS430 is if you absolutely need AWD.

However if you're going to compare the RL to ES350 or GS350awd, I'd take the Acura in a heartbeat. The new ES is just god awful, and the new GS isn't built anywhere near as well as the RL (or LS430 for that matter). The GS is faster, but RL has a much better AWD system, much better build quality, materials and attention to details.

I8ABMR

I think te RL interior looks nice, but you will have to service the car at the acura dealership and that means you have to wait around for an hour or so to get you oil changed. I dont have time for **** like that. I will stick with Lexus or Infiniti if I want something a bit sportier Acura service sucks. I have had the sales team at a local dealership calling me every 2 seconds because I sent in to look at a TL and decided to not go for the deal they offered because didnt feel like waiting for service or repairs.

AlexusAnja

TL and RL I'll grant you a pass... but the TSX? Come on, the current TSX is heads and shoulders better over the previous TSX both interior and exterior.

Long story, but one of my friends got a 2007 TSX loner for a week and I had driven it for about three days, what a POS that 'drive by wire' system was. Acceleration lag made that thing drive about as fast and fun as a minivan (without a soccer mom inside of course). The current TSX has resolved the acceleration lag, interior looks more modern, and the exterior (subjective) is much better, aggressive, looking in my opinion. With a V6 coming in MY2010, it should be a very nice addition/option for the TSX. Wish it came with the V6 and SH-AWD instead. Then I think the TSX would give the IS-AWD a good run for it's money.

tigmd99

1SICKLEX, for someone who claims to know a lot about cars, your statements above are far from being accurate nor fair.

Really, all that separate an Accord from an RL are: HIDs, AWD, and a little build quality??? Wow, such an enlightened statement...unfortunately, that just proves how misinformed you are! Just a few things off my head: much more sound insulation, BIGGER ENGINE, better NAVI/stereo, a lot more advance audio system, much better leather, advance HIDS (with swivel feature), better materials all around, available radar cruise and "pre-collision" stuff, longer warranty, better service, etc....

Or simply, go up to an RL and open & close the doors...then do the same to an Accord (or Lexus ES for that matter)...big difference!

LexFather

Claims? I do know about cars. I am not saying the RL is not the better vehicle. It better be. What I am saying is the new Accord is so good and the latest Acuras are so ho-hum, they are redundant. The new Accord matches or beats ALL Acura sedans in key areas;
-Acceleration/Power
-Size
-Looks
-Feaures
More sound insulation. Wow. Shouldn't it have that?
Bigger engine? Yeah that is slower than an Accord and gets 16 city 22 highway.
Better Nav/Stereo-I said better Nav already. Stereo is okay at best
Better leather-it should have better leather
Advance HIDs-Advanced for Acura, but old tech for everyone else.

Yes the RL is a better car than an Accord. However an Accord looks better, is just as large and loses on small points, not large ones. The only thing you can't add is AWD.

Now a used RL for 30k over a new 30k Accord, well yes, go for the RL. A 50k RL over a 30k Accord? Not worth it.

The new Accord is a very very good car. It actually positioned ABOVE the Euro Accord/TSX in Japan as the Honda Inspire. Acura simply hasn't done enough to separate itself from an Accord.





The problem is not with me. I said in 2004 the new RL was going to fail miserably and it did. I didn't build the RL, I didn't market it, I didn't sell it, I just watched as it fail again. If some of you feel that strongly, maybe write Honda a letter or something. However we all know it will fall on deaf ears.