tigmd99

Well, if the RL is an overpriced glorified Accord, then what do you think of the ES350?? Lets see...an ES350 can cost close to $15k more than a comparable Camry!! And what do you get with an ES350? Same exact freaking powertrain as Camry! Same engine, same transmission, same FWD platform. I wonder if the brakes and suspension components are all the same??!! It would not surprise me. All you really get is the luxury little tidbits, longer warranty period, and better customer service (BUT at a price since Lexus charges an enormous amount of cash for their service!). Oh yeah, the Camry JBL system kicks the crap out of the ES350 base sound system by a million mile...and is not that far behind the ES ML system either! (BTW, that JBL system is actually quite nice for just 6 speakers!) Both have the same exact performance figures because both are identical underneath the skin. (Note: Acura RL BOSE system is STANDARD.)

Hell, with the RL, at least, i am getting a heavily modified platform with exclusive powertrain and a true AWD system that enchances traction and handling! As noted above, the level of luxury and infotainment system are clearly a step or two ABOVE that of the Accord. A RL will run circles (literally!) around an Accord anyday of the week, on any traction surface. Can you say the same about the ES/Camry??

So, 1SICKLEX, if you have beef with the RL, then shouldn't you be in the ES350 forum complaining???? Let me point the way: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es350-180/

BTW, you say that i don't have a strong argument, then what makes your statement anymore "legit"?? What you stated so far is wrong...and other members are seeing that.

AlexusAnja

Has this become a BASH and DEFEND the RL thread? I feel like I'm on Acurazone.

For me, I'm neither a fanboy of Lexus nor Acura. I've gravitated towards Lexus because I feel they offer a more luxurious vehicle. If Acura came out with a Lexus LS fighter and priced to go... I'm in. Until that day, I'll look into the RL if I'm looking to downgrade in size. And with that said, I would probably take the RL over the GS just based on interior. I think the RL has a more luxurious interior of the two.

LexFather

So your first antics were to make personal attacks. Since you cannot disprove my points you now decide to bring up the ES 350, which we are not talking about. Its odd Acura owners try to make the ES some sort of whipping boy for being based on the Camry when every sedan they make is;
1. Either a rebadged Accord (TSX)
2. Like the ES 350, based on a lesser platform, in their case the USDM Accord
3. Down to a rebadged Civic in the Canadian CSX

If you make the same accusations about the ES 350, well then the TL is no different. The TSX is nothing but a Honda Euro Accord with Acura badges and a beak. The Rl is a Honda Legend.

The problem here is you don't like the fact(s) the RL;
1. looks like an Accord
2. shares the Accord platform
3. is slower or no faster than an accord
4. no larger than an Accord
5. is always mentioned with Accord

Again I did not say the RL, (Rather Honda Legend) is not better than the USDM Accord. It has a few additional features and clearly its built better. My thoughts are it isn't worth the asking price. Clearly I'm not alone on this as its had 6-8k rebates for 4 years, sells like swine flu orange juice and has the resale value of Nuclear Waste at the supermarket.

I understand you are passionate about Accords and want to bring the ES 350 up. However this thread is about the LS 430 vs the RL.

Now all of a sudden you bring up the Camry and the JBL system is better than the stock ES system. (ooh, your so cool) and now you make up things like "ML is barely better" when ML is regarded as one of the best systems around.

You then say a RL will run circles around the Accord but its a moot point. Has one owner taken it to the track in near 5 years?

Getting back to the topic, I would easily recommend the LS 430 over the RL 10 times out of 10 unless AWD is a main requirement and well the RWD LS bows out.

The LS 430 is regarded as one of the finest luxury cars every built. We all would be so lucky to own one each!

rominl

iTrader: (4)

to me the decision is simple coz' of the class. the rl is nice for an acura, but unfortunately it's not the same class as the ls430. it can go against the gs but that's pretty much where it stays

the rl probably has some of the better bose systems out there, however i really don't think it can touch the ml on the ls430 at all. before the ls460 and lx570 ml reference systems, the ml on the ls430 was probably one of the most solid oem systems out there. i heard both in person before, pretty significant difference

after all, car choices are of course personal, but comparing a v8 ls430 with the v6 rl, two cars of different classes? to me that's too easy to choose the ls430. i already omit the part about exterior styling, i don't want to get too subjective (though it's pretty one sided as well about the new acura)

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well the ES is basically a souped up Camry, but it is Lexus entry level model. Their flagship (LS), mid level (GS) and even the entry level (IS) are built from scratch.

The RL however is Acura's flagship, and its still based on the Accord.

Have you ever heard people saying "I'd rather buy a used LS than a new ES, because I dont wanna spend 40k on a souped up Camry?". I'm sure you have. So if even the entry level model is suffering from such perception, what happens when this perception is associated with the flagship model? Yep, just look at RL's sales numbers.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

All this discussion makes me want to go drive an RL to see if they've changed their basic nature since the Legend days. I drove a late '90's Legend [EDIT: It was in fact an early RL -- ~'98 or '99 model -- didn't even realize they'd changed the name by then DOH] for a couple of days back a few years ago, and I swear that car not only had no "soul," but it seemed to suck the life out of me while driving it. It may sound strange, but that's the best way I can describe it. I do not understand how such nice car on paper could feel so completely dead and unspiring on the road. I was actually shocked and couldn't wait to give the car back to its owner. At the time I had a 328is as a daily driver, and it was like waking up from a bad dream and realizing with great relief that it wasn't real when I got back in the BMW. LOL Another friend had a Maxima and while the Maxima felt completely souless compared to the BMW (driving them back to back), the Maxima practically felt like a orgasm on wheels compared to the Legend. WTF was the deal with the Legend?

I can't find any interest in an ES either, but at least it's just simply boring, and that's about all.

And while I'm at it -- I'd have just about ZERO interest in a Honda Accord these days. I've driven the current model and IMO it's a low point for Accords in the 'enjoyable to drive' category, and the ergonomic design is very poor IMO. I actually think I'd take a loaded Malibu LTZ over an Accord if it weren't for my utter comtempt for Government Motors and the bailout.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't call the LS an invigorating drive either, but that's not what it's about. It's about quality, comfort, refinement, and somehow, satisfaction and peace of mind, so to speak. For me, that comes through every mile that I put on the LS. There is rarely if ever a time that I don't feel that the LS is doing it's job extremely well and is the best balance of the above attributes. To me, all large sedans are *****-slow and handle like trucks compared to something fast and good-handling, so I'm not looking for that kind of thing from a luxury sedan. I think some people may look for the LS to be something it wasn't intended to be, and they may be disappointed.

All that said, my Legend experience wan't a matter of 'not as invigorating' as I'd expected. It was far worse than that -- it was practically creepy. LOL I simply would not drive a car like that -- I'd trade it for a Honda Civic or a Ford Focus if I had to, but I would not drive that soul-sucking thing. LOL

DDLexus

I was reading on another forum and learned that the 2005 RL sold for $42k (new). That same 2005 is going for $23-25k today (Summer 2009). Not bad for holding the original value. The LS on the other hand went for at least $50k in that same year and now sells for $25-27k. So, the rate of depreciation for the Lexus is higher. I think these cars will eventually (within a year or two) cost the exact same.

Also, on the AcuraZine forums, they're definitely respectful with the LS430. They understand that the car are indeed in a different class and is appealing to a different population. My impression was that people there like the LS and would like to have one, but appreciate that the RL engages the driver more than the LS. It's worth taking a look from the Acura forum point of view.

http://rl.acurazine.com/forums/showt...ighlight=ls430

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Several off-topic posts removed... I'll repeat myself one more time before this thread is closed.

DDLexus

Either you listened to a system that was not stock or you need to see your doctor about problems with your hearing. Just kidding!

I've actually owned and subsequently had to fix my LS430's ML sound system. Do a search on CL and you'll read all about the problems, poor sound quality, and need for additional bass.

On the contrary, I saw a post on AcuraZine that polled owners of the Acura Bose system in the RL and it got rave reviews. A similar poll here would likely result in alot of negative comments.
http://rl.acurazine.com/forums/showt...ighlight=ls430

As a previous LS owner, I know 1st hand. Now I'm a SC430 owner and think that system sucks too. Speakers are not able to stand up to the test of a few years, bass is punchy and limited in range, and it doesn't have an equalizer that let the listener set his/her preferred dynamic range. Pretty sad for automotive sound. BTW, owned a GS400 and RX300, even worse in those cars.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i agree about the base, the previous ML system is on the weak side. but in terms of balance, clarity, etc... i still think ML is one of the better ones. i have listened to bose on acura and logic 7 on bmw and they are all even more disappointing if anything (none of them come close to the ML on lexus)

every system will have their pros and cons, but overall reviews would be the norm imho. and of what i have seen over the yrs, the ML is pretty good. and a poll about bose systems from acura forum, to certain extend it's like a poll here on ML systems

tigmd99

Well, considering that the RL was significantly cheaper than the LS by a large margin of cash, they were never in the same class except that each was the flagship of their respective brand. It is like comparing a Kia Sorento to a Toyota Land Cruiser...yeah, each is the flagship SUV of the brand, but they were never meant to be direct competitors.

Disclaimer: i don't know if the Sorento is still the flagship SUV anymore for Kia, but you get my point.

And i agree with you...the RL was more of a GS/ES competitor...and as such, it was/is a very good car when compared to the GS/ES and may be even superior to those cars in some ways depending on one's needs.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well the base price of the RL was 50k, but it sold with massive discounts.

Now for holding the original value, there were barely any RL's sold, so there are very few of them on the used car market, while the LS is abundant. And when you consider how great of a deal you can get right now on a used 2005+ LS430, it just makes even more sense.

Also, the LS430 will hold its value very well after the initial drop. If you purchase one now, lets say a 2005 for $25k, five years later you'll be able to sell it for 15k. And 2k depreciation per year is great, you cant even lease a civic for that.

Salil022

iTrader: (1)

Guys
I've driven both cars and i am not trying to be a lexus fanboi or acura fan...Between any year LS430 and 04 & Up RL there is no comparison...LS feels much more solid and refined and i don't think RL's Bose system is as clear as people make it out to be. You really have to drive LS430 & RL back to back and you sure will appreciate LS430 much more

ML on the LS430 is very good considering that First gen ML came out in 2001 LS430...It is very clear but it is lacking somewhat bass compared to previous LS Nakamichi's

AlexusAnja

I think everyone can agree that if we compare apples to apples (RL to GS), then it will be a good comparison. Just like the Genesis for example, if you compare it to a GS as well, then it's a good comparison, but if you compare that to a LS, then no comparison.

Someone mentioned the whole "rebadging" thing about Acura not having a single vehicle not rebadged. I really don't find anything wrong with what I call "reengineering" because EVERY manufacturer does it to some extent and it's just business. It's when you truly rebadge (i.e. Chrysler Town & Country vs. Dodge Grand Voyager) with no changes whatsoever interior or exterior that I find it a raw deal.

Someone mentioned the Legend being boring... are you kidding? Not that this necessarily means much, but the Legend (2nd gen) was probably the best Acura produced thus far besides the NSX. Keep in mind, the 2nd gen. Legend was a late 80's early '90s vehicle and if you drove it say in the late '90's, then perception wise, it was dated and probably drove "not so good."