TrendyTodd

iTrader: (6)

OK, I've seen the car and wiped it down before checking out the car. Samson asked me to look at it before he told me what he saw. Here's what I found:

1) Deep enough to not be able to buff out


2 Deep also, and very noticeable


3 not too bad


4 Down to the base coat


5 Was covered up with dirt


6


7 Very noticeable


8 Not too bad, but still noticeable


9 Ding


10 Bad chips

TrendyTodd

iTrader: (6)

11 Very noticeable rock chip with smaller surrounding ones


12 More minor chips


13 Another large chip


14 ?


15 Deep scratches


16 Gouges


17 Navi scuffs


18 Another angle


Now my opinions are that yes, alot of these are not unusual for a used car. But, as Samson mentioned, they were not disclosed and a few of them were more noticeable than the flaws that were represented in the original set of pics that were sent. That said, they should have been listed as "flaws" and I can understand how Samson could have gotten disappointed when he was told that the car was "flawless". These pictures only represent the upper panels. There were alot more, of the lower panes, that were taken by a friend of mine. Will post more pics when they become available.

On the positive side, the interior, except for the Navi console, was near "flawless". It even still had a new car smell.

I think if the car was washed prior to sale, alot of these flaws could have been captured by a point & shoot. Many of these scratches and gouges were camoflauged by dirt and tar.

weesped

iTrader: (8)

heres some i found

weesped

iTrader: (8)

weesped

iTrader: (8)

and the last one

llamaboiz

hmm... reading this thread i thought, well samson is just being samson and is being his normal 'too picky' self, its a used car right? what can you expect?... but... after seeing these pics of what is being described as 'flawless' well ... and the search continues...

PHML

iTrader: (33)

To be fair to Omied, he deals with cars daily....and in his mind...this car maybe considered "flawless" compared to the other cars he buys/sells.

Obviously, "flawless" to Samson ....who does showcars.... is not the same as the above.

Well, what has everyone learned from this?

If it was me...I'd fly up there to see what Im paying for? Maybe ask a buddy who lives there to check it out....another would ask for better high resolution pics of the entire car.....Or.... hire someone to do an inspection....with particular attention to the dings, scratches, scuffs, blemishes, etc...

lexuscrazy

X2

bigcory

I still think these blemishes are with in reason for a used car. Right off the bat, I would have been iffy on the deal when Omied sent the pictures of the license plate frame dent. That alone would have been enough for me to question the shape of the rest of the car and how the previous owner maintained.

Consider it a lesson learned. Being a "picky buyer" (not a slam by any means but it is obvious that you are looking for an above average car) I would have for sure had the car inspected.

AlexusAnja

I can see both sides of the deal here. The seller is not going to show EVERY single chip of body because you have to expect some minor chips here and there, but the door edge chips seem pretty big. From the buyers side, if the seller is saying "flawless" and provides flaws and those provided were the only ones given and this came, I'd probably be pretty disappointed too.

So, again it comes down to, if you can live with minor chips then try for a sight-unseen deal, but if you're super picky and need to know EVERY little detail, then either you have to go and check for yourself, or you have to get a trust independent inspector and Omeid had provide a link on this thread for one.

Omied

Yeah, I didn't realize everyone's got their own definition of cherry, or flawless. A lot of car enthusiasts don't realize that when they see a car that's front-line ready at a dealership, and what it looks like before it's offered for sale, are totally different things.

Like somebody else mentioned, I look at a ton of cars each week, and this one is honestly one of the nicest LS's I've had. If I went the extra extra mile and had my rock chip touch-up guy come out and go over it, it'd be much more appealing, but if this was seen in person, 99.9% of buyers would agree it's a nice car. I wish I did do that to minimize samson's level of disappointment, but at this point, it's something that's beyond my control and can only appologize, I wasn't trying to misrepresent anything or defraud anyone which is why I always do offer people to have a 3rd party inspect the car.

On a slightly brighter note, the paint on the Navi screen is a common item, that can be fixed under Lexus warranty. I've had them done before.

TrendyTodd

iTrader: (6)

Really? Thats the first I've heard of this. Might have to check with our dealership here.

Do you know where this paint can be found? I've seen it done before, but can't remember where.

gtfour43

WOW Samson I also thought you were exaggerating but this would clearly bother me as well for a "flawless" car. This looks like my 92 almost. I am really sorry/disappointed this happened to a guy like Samson. He is a honest and hardworking guy that I fully trust my cars with.

Samson I hope everything works out for you in the end. I'm pretty sure I wont be goin into the used LS market unless I can find a nice one here but who knows. GL bro!

DanozLS430

iTrader: (1)

Definition of FLAWLESS = Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.

This is definitely not a perfect specimen or without any defect or blemishes. The correct wording would be more like, looks okay compared to most that I seen or in perfect condition without my glasses and a few beers. I would rate this car as below average by looking at the pics. Most LS430's I see here in Hawaii looks ways better than this on the outside. An honest seller should take responsibility and reimburse Samson for misrepresentation. After 6 beers it is still not looking FLAWLESS to me. I may have to adjust my computer monitor to soften the scratches and photoshop out the dings, nicks and scrapes.


DanozLS430...

REV-01

iTrader: (13)

Pete, sorry to respond to this thread again but I really have something to say.

a friend of mine who used to own the junction produce GS in hawaii that i build for him and featured in jp blog/site/japan vip magazine etc. he wants to get a ls430. he found a car from kandf auto. so he talk to me about it and i decide to buying off his current car that i don't really need so that he could buy the ls430.

after he went thru the transaction with omied. he is happy with the car and of course after i sat in a ultra lux navi model with is not offer in hawaii. i am happy too and decide to turn down 3 ls430 locally. one 04 18k miles non ultra, one 04 24k non ultra, own by my friends dad which i test drove the car 2 years ago with only 13k. and of course teamplayer's 04 59k non ultra. 2 of them are in better shape than the one I got from omied. I wish I could buy one locally, this way I can see them but it is not possible since the navi option is not offer here.

I told him I am willing to buy the right car and spend additional 4k on shipping and taxes to Hawaii, and I told him the price I paid for my friends junction produce GS so he could get his ls430 and plus this ls430 I could buy myself a brand new ls460. but I tried my very best to let him know I want a flawless ls430.

i told omied my story, who i am, what i do, what are my expectations many times. i even told him i am looking forward to deal with him because of the past transaction with my friend. i visit his site every 3 days or so just to see what he has to offer until this one came up.

i even show him another 04 ls430 ultra with 13k and the very same features and color that i am willing to fly out to east coast to check it out but too bad that someone got it before me.

basically i got it all covered. from letting him know on a average day i got 3 lexus park outside of the shop waiting to be work on and some more lexus park at home too. i told him i am busy that i don't really need a car because i have to drive customer's car home which all of them have no problem with, to let him know the fact that I could install air suspension and aftermarket navigation myself on the non ultra models to save $. I told him my customer would always come to me for advice too, and I could promote his business more when someone is looking for car. I already refer 2 of my friends to him before I even see my own car.

I would do everything you said Pete about flying up to see it. Do an inspection by a third party etc. But Omied is so confident with me on the phone that i will be happy with the car so I took his word for it. I am not sure why he didn’t tell me about the other flaws that me, my friends and customers found. May be he look at a lot of cars each week where they gotta sell them in volume too. May be he didn’t take what I said seriously, may be I am so far away so it is okay, or may be he thinks I am just a small potato with a shop name that he never heard of. I treat my customers very well, because that is how I would like to be treated. But this case honestly it is a let down for me.