LSorBS

I'll chime in, my brother went out of the country for 2 months last year and I got to know the 745Li pretty well:

even though they're in the same "class" they really don't compare... they serve very different purposes. as far as straight-line speed and mid-range clout is concerned, the 745Li is slightly faster, but not by any noticeable margin. Going around corners on the other hand... the BMW does that better then ANY vehicle in it's class (A8, S500, Q45, LS430) and yes, it's a noticeable difference. Now lets talk about COMFORT and interior QUALITY... items that should be top of the list on any luxury land yacht... The BMW's interior is really down right crappy. The leather they use (unless you find a BMW:Individual package, which is like a 12k option) is coarse and not pleasing, the seats are ridiculously complex to operate and are too heavily "sporty" making them significantly less comfortable then the Lexus, the wood they use isn't very good looking, and well, the headliner isn't suede- NUFF SAID. The steering wheel on the 745Li I tested felt as if it were made of foam and wasn't satisfying at all, and the overall ascetics aside (let's not crucify Bangle) the car doesn't seem very well thought out. I don't particularly like the way to BMW shifts, it feel too coarse to me, and I don't know if this matters but the Lexus is lighter and much more aerodynamic and as a result does get better gas milage.

Brace yourself people... we're going to talk about iDrive now...

I'm sure you're probably familiar with iDrive but let me just give you a few key points. To change your Radio station, you can't simply press the "FM" button and then scroll through your pre-sets... you have to scroll through about three sub-menus to find what you're looking for. Entering a destination is even worse. With the Lexus, it's a simple tap away, with the BMW, you have to scroll through no less then about 4-5 sub-menus to input your destination. Although I do have to say that the display screen is very large and satisfying.

All this aside, the BMW is a very nice status symbol, it's kind of like a Rolex watch: most people think they're much nicer then they are (Rolex's are notorious for not keeping time well.) BMW almost always (with the exception of the Z8) seems to get the handling thing right and the 745 is no exception, however the question is, can you live with it everyday?

The Lexus is more comfortable, better looking (opinion), has better build quality, is more technologically advanced (yes, it does have more technology features- it's very hard to find keyless entry, dynamic cruise etc on a 7) and is far more reliable- don't take this lightly, the 745 is INCREDIBLY unreliable- look at consumer reports, AND to top it all of, you get to deal with the wonderful folks at Lexus- and not the horrid ones at BMW.

So in the end, if you want a sub-par status symbol, go with the BMW. If you want a car that you will actually enjoy (not enjoy the badge- enjoy the CAR) then go with the Lexus.

Lexus: The Passionate Pursuit of Perfection. Beacuse in the end, everyone needs a little suede.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

-LSorBS

AlexusAnja

Does the LS430 CL and UL come with a "blue suede" interior? Nicely written and agree on almost all points. I've had the pleasure of beating up on m colleague's leased 745i and yes... it's handling is the REAL DEAL, but it's just not ergonomically correct enough to be an everyday driver. I'll take the cush cush LS430 for the long haul.

I'm considering flying to west coast to buy the right LS430 and drive it back... I would never consider that with a BMW or MB.

LSorBS

Unfortunately, Maroon Suede interior was the only color offered on the LS430
What you said is spot on, the BMW isn't ergonomically correct enough- that describes it perfectly. Personally I'd rather have a 550i- it's more focused and my gosh is it fast. In the end though, you've got to go with the big body LS– Go Big or Go Home

Have you decided on a package/color-combo? You mentioned MB... you don't want to get me started on a rant about the S-Class! So don't go there

-LSorBS

AlexusAnja

A colleague here has a 2008 550i in a dark blue... that's one nice ride. Too bad it's wasted on a 60 year old dude who does't even bring the thing past 30 on local and 60 oh highway. I was thinking of getting it for cheap when he's done with it because I know it would have not been driven hard.

Back to real life... I'm pretty much fixed on an '05 LS430 CL black/beige or white/beige. UL in same combo, if price is right, but I'm leaning toward CL only because don't want to eventually replace the air suspension and the rear seat package is "nill" for me because I have three kids.

LSorBS

BMW's 550i is 100% the best car in class however, back to reality is right. The LS is almost as practical as a mini-van because it's so large and so comfortable. Since I was planning on keepin my LS for at least 5 years (I plan on buying somethin new before then, but the LS is a great 2nd car) I knew I didn't want the air suspension. I basically got every option but air suspension avail. on my LS w/ the CL package. That being said, what I said before is really true- if you're not buying from a Lexus Dealer, there is a VERY good change they're not going to know what package it has- and thus that wont factor into the price. I did buy from a Lexus dealer so... It did factor in.
I don't know how old you are, but based on your comments I feel like you're at least under 60. As a result, I wouldn't go with the white LS- I believe (esp. with pearl white) what you must belong to AARP to drive one- white LS's look a little old. I'd go with black... but's that just my 2 cents... which considering they're american cents... isn't worth very much at all.

drink300

I dunno. I was 22 driving a brand new 03 White Pearl LS430. Back then, it was never the color that made me feel old. It was the shape of the headlights.

After being very unhappy with my first LS, when I bought my second LS430, I demanded an 04 because it looks SO much better with the more agressive headlights, etc... Also, I demanded the Ultra Luxury. In particular, I prefer the air suspension over the regular suspension. especially the ability to change how firm the car rides at the flip of a switch. Oh, and the refrigerator comes in handy on long trips.

AlexusAnja

Actually I'm 62 and almost near retirement... ha ha, j/k. I'm under 40 actually and kids range from 1 to 5 and all in some sort of child seat, so that center console in back is "NO GOOD" for next few years.

White is 2nd color as in if we can't find black AT ALL !!!! Black is the best color for a luxury vehicle, give's it attitude and that "look." White just makes the LS430 look a giant marshmellow cruiser. But hey, we like marshmellows...

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

I disagree strongly. From a reliability standpoint, they are poorly made junk by today's standards. Frankly, I don't really care too much for how they feel on the road, as luxury cars go. Barges like that are NOT performance cars, so why sacrafice the comfort? I could have bought any of the big luxury cars but the LS was the hands-down winner in my driving comparisons, and I went into it expecting not to like the LS. It won me over.

LSorBS

Oh no doubt that ANY color 04+ LS looks much more youthful then the previous gen. It's funny how much a few things can do for a car (headlights, fog-lights, exposed exhaust tips, etc.)

Never settle! People will tell you, "Oh its used, you wont find exactly what you're looking for... Bull Crap! It took me some time (3 months) to find a Flint/Black CL 430 w/ low miles/fully optioned (except the air suspension). But in the end it was worth it. On the subject of marshmallows... anybody I've met that doesn't like them isn't completely human.

I wouldn't consider the 550i a "barge" by any stretch of the imagination... The 550's class is mid-sized luxury SPORTS sedans. And in this particular segment, putting luxury first is a FAILING bet. The GS is an under-performer for Lexus because it's fairly disconnected from the road- which is okay with an ES or LS but completely unacceptable for a mid-sized lux. sports car. It also must be stated that the 550i has been a fairly reliable vehicle thus far and is by no means a 7-series or S-Class in the reliability department. Also, the 550i is not a performance car?!? 0-60 is UNDER five seconds, it handles superbly and has 50/50 weight distribution– most sports coupes only dream about having all of those things. So what I said stands, if you're in the market for a mid-sized SPORTS sedan, the 550i is hand's down the best choice. If you prefer luxury, then either go for the ES or LS... for me the GS isn't a compromise- it's pointless, you sacrifice the luxury of the LS, the low-cost of the ES... and don't gain very much viable performance. Honestly, the LS is 100% best in class, but the IS and GS need serious help... Hence my user-name

That's only my 2 cents, so don't take offense to any of my views. Also take into consideration that the value of the American dollar is so horrible a present time, that 2 cents isn't worth much at all...

-LSrBS

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

My bad. I was reading all the "LS vs. 7-series" and absent-mindedly posted thinking "7-series" so what I wrote is my view on 7-series vs. LS.

I agree that the 5-series is a benchmark for 'sports sedans' if you are generous enough to consider a 550i or its competitors deserving of the implication of 'sports' cars (I'm not -- they are barges compared to sporting cars). If you are talking about the M5 and it's competitors, you're getting closer to sporting, but I'm not sure if the BMW is still the BEST one, as the E63 seems to have made HUGE strides for MB and some of the magazines (for what they're worth) give it the nod in pretty much all categories including raw performance AND on-the-road sporting feel, this latter a major blow for BMW if true. I still can't believe that the CTS-V is actually a serious all-around competitor in terms of overall quality and refinement and something that you'd appreciate day-in day-out, but it too has been posting up some impressive comparison results relative to the current M5. Relative to the 550i? Forgetaboutit if the term "sport" is involved.

LSorBS

Sports "sedans" and sports "cars" are two totally different things. I'm not suggesting that the 550i is a 911 by any stretch, all I'm saying is that it's good at what it does. period. For somebody who cut down BMW's quality... have you ever SAT in a CTS-V? I've never seen cheaper plastics, or poorer ergonomics. Sure, they gave it one of the General's 'vette engines that they seem to do so well, but with the exception of the Z06 (which is godly- drive one and see) even the Corvette is pretty poorly made... General Motors doesn't make a car with acceptable build quality at present time- even the 80k ESV's have all sorts of fake metal trim. It's horrible. Sorry for the rant, I just had to point out they have the WORST build quality in the business.

Speaking of INTERIOR build quality only here (No more bangle debates on the CL forum ):

1. Lexus
2. Audi (High end, A8's, RS cars, etc.)- Some of Audi's super high end stuff probably exceeds Lexus, like the A8L W12- impeccable.
3. Mercedes (Again, high end, S-Class, CL etc.)
4. Jaguar- still outdated, but nice materials
5. BMW

Cheers!
-LSorBS

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Yes. I sat in a 2009 model last March (and of course have been in earlier models). Have you SAT in a 2009? Assuming that was a production version as claimed (it looked to be), they are very nice, albeit in an American car kind of way. A few pictures here in post #36:
http://supraforums.com/forum/showthr...=494679&page=2
I still wouldn't have an interest in owning a car built by a company which I hold contempt for management (GM and Ford) but the new CTS-V interior makes a standard 550i seem very spartan and austere. I like BMW's and have owned a few, but their interiors are very basic and not remotely impressive like some other high-end vehicles, IMO.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

I think one would have to qualify the above list as purely a matter of taste between Lexus, Audi, and MB. To imply that Audi and MB are categorically not up to the build quality of Lexus interiors is not defensible, IMO. Those are VERY high quality interiors, and in some ways have a higher "quality" look and feel, and give less of a "mass produced" impression than the Lexus, IMO.

CocDiezel

Back on the topic of the LS430...... can the Sport Package be had with the CL or UL packages? Or only with the Modern Lux package?

CocDiezel

Also, what are the differences from the 05 LS to the 06 LS?