Looking to buy a LS 430. Opinions and advice appreciated : )
#16
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even though they're in the same "class" they really don't compare... they serve very different purposes. as far as straight-line speed and mid-range clout is concerned, the 745Li is slightly faster, but not by any noticeable margin. Going around corners on the other hand... the BMW does that better then ANY vehicle in it's class (A8, S500, Q45, LS430) and yes, it's a noticeable difference. Now lets talk about COMFORT and interior QUALITY... items that should be top of the list on any luxury land yacht... The BMW's interior is really down right crappy. The leather they use (unless you find a BMW:Individual package, which is like a 12k option) is coarse and not pleasing, the seats are ridiculously complex to operate and are too heavily "sporty" making them significantly less comfortable then the Lexus, the wood they use isn't very good looking, and well, the headliner isn't suede- NUFF SAID. The steering wheel on the 745Li I tested felt as if it were made of foam and wasn't satisfying at all, and the overall ascetics aside (let's not crucify Bangle) the car doesn't seem very well thought out. I don't particularly like the way to BMW shifts, it feel too coarse to me, and I don't know if this matters but the Lexus is lighter and much more aerodynamic and as a result does get better gas milage.
Brace yourself people... we're going to talk about iDrive now...
I'm sure you're probably familiar with iDrive but let me just give you a few key points. To change your Radio station, you can't simply press the "FM" button and then scroll through your pre-sets... you have to scroll through about three sub-menus to find what you're looking for. Entering a destination is even worse. With the Lexus, it's a simple tap away, with the BMW, you have to scroll through no less then about 4-5 sub-menus to input your destination. Although I do have to say that the display screen is very large and satisfying.
All this aside, the BMW is a very nice status symbol, it's kind of like a Rolex watch: most people think they're much nicer then they are (Rolex's are notorious for not keeping time well.) BMW almost always (with the exception of the Z8) seems to get the handling thing right and the 745 is no exception, however the question is, can you live with it everyday?
The Lexus is more comfortable, better looking (opinion), has better build quality, is more technologically advanced (yes, it does have more technology features- it's very hard to find keyless entry, dynamic cruise etc on a 7) and is far more reliable- don't take this lightly, the 745 is INCREDIBLY unreliable- look at consumer reports, AND to top it all of, you get to deal with the wonderful folks at Lexus- and not the horrid ones at BMW.
So in the end, if you want a sub-par status symbol, go with the BMW. If you want a car that you will actually enjoy (not enjoy the badge- enjoy the CAR) then go with the Lexus.
Lexus: The Passionate Pursuit of Perfection. Beacuse in the end, everyone needs a little suede.
Good luck! Keep us posted!
-LSorBS
#17
Does the LS430 CL and UL come with a "blue suede" interior? Nicely written and agree on almost all points. I've had the pleasure of beating up on m colleague's leased 745i and yes... it's handling is the REAL DEAL, but it's just not ergonomically correct enough to be an everyday driver. I'll take the cush cush LS430 for the long haul.
I'm considering flying to west coast to buy the right LS430 and drive it back... I would never consider that with a BMW or MB.
I'm considering flying to west coast to buy the right LS430 and drive it back... I would never consider that with a BMW or MB.
#18
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Does the LS430 CL and UL come with a "blue suede" interior? Nicely written and agree on almost all points. I've had the pleasure of beating up on m colleague's leased 745i and yes... it's handling is the REAL DEAL, but it's just not ergonomically correct enough to be an everyday driver. I'll take the cush cush LS430 for the long haul.
I'm considering flying to west coast to buy the right LS430 and drive it back... I would never consider that with a BMW or MB.
I'm considering flying to west coast to buy the right LS430 and drive it back... I would never consider that with a BMW or MB.
What you said is spot on, the BMW isn't ergonomically correct enough- that describes it perfectly. Personally I'd rather have a 550i- it's more focused and my gosh is it fast. In the end though, you've got to go with the big body LS– Go Big or Go Home
Have you decided on a package/color-combo? You mentioned MB... you don't want to get me started on a rant about the S-Class! So don't go there
-LSorBS
#19
Personally I'd rather have a 550i- it's more focused and my gosh is it fast. In the end though, you've got to go with the big body LS– Go Big or Go Home
Have you decided on a package/color-combo? You mentioned MB... you don't want to get me started on a rant about the S-Class! So don't go there
-LSorBS
Have you decided on a package/color-combo? You mentioned MB... you don't want to get me started on a rant about the S-Class! So don't go there
-LSorBS
Back to real life... I'm pretty much fixed on an '05 LS430 CL black/beige or white/beige. UL in same combo, if price is right, but I'm leaning toward CL only because don't want to eventually replace the air suspension and the rear seat package is "nill" for me because I have three kids.
#20
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A colleague here has a 2008 550i in a dark blue... that's one nice ride. Too bad it's wasted on a 60 year old dude who does't even bring the thing past 30 on local and 60 oh highway. I was thinking of getting it for cheap when he's done with it because I know it would have not been driven hard.
Back to real life... I'm pretty much fixed on an '05 LS430 CL black/beige or white/beige. UL in same combo, if price is right, but I'm leaning toward CL only because don't want to eventually replace the air suspension and the rear seat package is "nill" for me because I have three kids.
Back to real life... I'm pretty much fixed on an '05 LS430 CL black/beige or white/beige. UL in same combo, if price is right, but I'm leaning toward CL only because don't want to eventually replace the air suspension and the rear seat package is "nill" for me because I have three kids.
I don't know how old you are, but based on your comments I feel like you're at least under 60. As a result, I wouldn't go with the white LS- I believe (esp. with pearl white) what you must belong to AARP to drive one- white LS's look a little old. I'd go with black... but's that just my 2 cents... which considering they're american cents... isn't worth very much at all.
#21
I don't know how old you are, but based on your comments I feel like you're at least under 60. As a result, I wouldn't go with the white LS- I believe (esp. with pearl white) what you must belong to AARP to drive one- white LS's look a little old. I'd go with black... but's that just my 2 cents... which considering they're american cents... isn't worth very much at all.
After being very unhappy with my first LS, when I bought my second LS430, I demanded an 04 because it looks SO much better with the more agressive headlights, etc... Also, I demanded the Ultra Luxury. In particular, I prefer the air suspension over the regular suspension. especially the ability to change how firm the car rides at the flip of a switch. Oh, and the refrigerator comes in handy on long trips.
#22
Aarp
...I don't know how old you are, but based on your comments I feel like you're at least under 60. As a result, I wouldn't go with the white LS- I believe (esp. with pearl white) what you must belong to AARP to drive one- white LS's look a little old. I'd go with black... but's that just my 2 cents... which considering they're american cents... isn't worth very much at all.
White is 2nd color as in if we can't find black AT ALL !!!! Black is the best color for a luxury vehicle, give's it attitude and that "look." White just makes the LS430 look a giant marshmellow cruiser. But hey, we like marshmellows...
#23
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I disagree strongly. From a reliability standpoint, they are poorly made junk by today's standards. Frankly, I don't really care too much for how they feel on the road, as luxury cars go. Barges like that are NOT performance cars, so why sacrafice the comfort? I could have bought any of the big luxury cars but the LS was the hands-down winner in my driving comparisons, and I went into it expecting not to like the LS. It won me over.
#24
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I disagree strongly. From a reliability standpoint, they are poorly made junk by today's standards. Frankly, I don't really care too much for how they feel on the road, as luxury cars go. Barges like that are NOT performance cars, so why sacrafice the comfort? I could have bought any of the big luxury cars but the LS was the hands-down winner in my driving comparisons, and I went into it expecting not to like the LS. It won me over.
That's only my 2 cents, so don't take offense to any of my views. Also take into consideration that the value of the American dollar is so horrible a present time, that 2 cents isn't worth much at all...
-LSrBS
#25
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I agree that the 5-series is a benchmark for 'sports sedans' if you are generous enough to consider a 550i or its competitors deserving of the implication of 'sports' cars (I'm not -- they are barges compared to sporting cars). If you are talking about the M5 and it's competitors, you're getting closer to sporting, but I'm not sure if the BMW is still the BEST one, as the E63 seems to have made HUGE strides for MB and some of the magazines (for what they're worth) give it the nod in pretty much all categories including raw performance AND on-the-road sporting feel, this latter a major blow for BMW if true. I still can't believe that the CTS-V is actually a serious all-around competitor in terms of overall quality and refinement and something that you'd appreciate day-in day-out, but it too has been posting up some impressive comparison results relative to the current M5. Relative to the 550i? Forgetaboutit if the term "sport" is involved.
#26
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My bad. I was reading all the "LS vs. 7-series" and absent-mindedly posted thinking "7-series" so what I wrote is my view on 7-series vs. LS.
I agree that the 5-series is a benchmark for 'sports sedans' if you are generous enough to consider a 550i or its competitors deserving of the implication of 'sports' cars (I'm not -- they are barges compared to sporting cars). If you are talking about the M5 and it's competitors, you're getting closer to sporting, but I'm not sure if the BMW is still the BEST one, as the E63 seems to have made HUGE strides for MB and some of the magazines (for what they're worth) give it the nod in pretty much all categories including raw performance AND on-the-road sporting feel, this latter a major blow for BMW if true. I still can't believe that the CTS-V is actually a serious all-around competitor in terms of overall quality and refinement and something that you'd appreciate day-in day-out, but it too has been posting up some impressive comparison results relative to the current M5. Relative to the 550i? Forgetaboutit if the term "sport" is involved.
I agree that the 5-series is a benchmark for 'sports sedans' if you are generous enough to consider a 550i or its competitors deserving of the implication of 'sports' cars (I'm not -- they are barges compared to sporting cars). If you are talking about the M5 and it's competitors, you're getting closer to sporting, but I'm not sure if the BMW is still the BEST one, as the E63 seems to have made HUGE strides for MB and some of the magazines (for what they're worth) give it the nod in pretty much all categories including raw performance AND on-the-road sporting feel, this latter a major blow for BMW if true. I still can't believe that the CTS-V is actually a serious all-around competitor in terms of overall quality and refinement and something that you'd appreciate day-in day-out, but it too has been posting up some impressive comparison results relative to the current M5. Relative to the 550i? Forgetaboutit if the term "sport" is involved.
Speaking of INTERIOR build quality only here (No more bangle debates on the CL forum ):
1. Lexus
2. Audi (High end, A8's, RS cars, etc.)- Some of Audi's super high end stuff probably exceeds Lexus, like the A8L W12- impeccable.
3. Mercedes (Again, high end, S-Class, CL etc.)
4. Jaguar- still outdated, but nice materials
5. BMW
Cheers!
-LSorBS
#27
Lexus Test Driver
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Yes. I sat in a 2009 model last March (and of course have been in earlier models). Have you SAT in a 2009? Assuming that was a production version as claimed (it looked to be), they are very nice, albeit in an American car kind of way. A few pictures here in post #36:
http://supraforums.com/forum/showthr...=494679&page=2
I still wouldn't have an interest in owning a car built by a company which I hold contempt for management (GM and Ford) but the new CTS-V interior makes a standard 550i seem very spartan and austere. I like BMW's and have owned a few, but their interiors are very basic and not remotely impressive like some other high-end vehicles, IMO.
http://supraforums.com/forum/showthr...=494679&page=2
I still wouldn't have an interest in owning a car built by a company which I hold contempt for management (GM and Ford) but the new CTS-V interior makes a standard 550i seem very spartan and austere. I like BMW's and have owned a few, but their interiors are very basic and not remotely impressive like some other high-end vehicles, IMO.
#28
Lexus Test Driver
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Speaking of INTERIOR build quality only here (No more bangle debates on the CL forum ):
1. Lexus
2. Audi (High end, A8's, RS cars, etc.)- Some of Audi's super high end stuff probably exceeds Lexus, like the A8L W12- impeccable.
3. Mercedes (Again, high end, S-Class, CL etc.)
4. Jaguar- still outdated, but nice materials
5. BMW
1. Lexus
2. Audi (High end, A8's, RS cars, etc.)- Some of Audi's super high end stuff probably exceeds Lexus, like the A8L W12- impeccable.
3. Mercedes (Again, high end, S-Class, CL etc.)
4. Jaguar- still outdated, but nice materials
5. BMW