bigcory

So I took my car to the dealer today for the 50k service. By by warranty!

While there they called and told me the brakes needed to be changed. They were charging almost 500 so I told them not to do it. I was curious though, why they would recommend that if the sensors hadn't gone off yet?

Any thoughts?

AlexusAnja

I'm not sure, but I don't think there are sensors for all four wheels, just one on the back and one on the front. It's possible that one side is lower than the other, so you won't necessarily get a trigger.

Also, the sensor is detecting to the level where there is almost no material left and stealerships are there to make money, so they'll want you to replace anything that's close to being done, or "should" be replaced rather than seeing if it needs to be replaced. If it's under warranty, "everything looks good" but anything related to maintenance "oh, it's bad, we should replace all four."

If you don't feel the braking performance deteriorating, then I would say no need to change it just yet. You'll feel the brakes going, once they're low enough, it's not like one day there good, next the pad falls off.

CarguyinGa

You will NOT feel the brakes "going", disc brakes do not lose adjustment at any point so the pedal travel will always be consistent regardless of pad life remaining. Maybe they are trying to notify him that they are close to the sensors contacting, that would actually save him money if so, it could also avoid a return trip to the dealer in the near future too. If they have it in and they do not inform them, when the pad warning comes on in a month all we're gonna hear is "why didn't they tell me when I had it in a month ago?!?!". If the pads get low enough to make metal to metal contact on the rotors, add some more $$.

I guess the "stealerships" have no real function. It shows true web forum mentality to use that term, analyze each dealer independently and even then remember that there are many individuals in a dealership. I'm sure you work with less than satisfactory people in your line of work, does that mean that all people are that way in that line of work? Drop the blanket mentality regarding dealers, some are out there to serve customers honestly and with integrity.

froboy272

this was a very well put statement. as a salesman for a nissan dealership i see people come in with an attitude like this VVVVVV and then i see people that come in talking trash and yelling and making a stink about things ranging from nonsense to empty promises to damaged vehicles. the old tale of catching more flies with honey is very true at a dealership. many have come in with bad attitudes that no longer are entitled to the free maintenance that we offer EVERY new car customer. all we ask is to bring us in an excellent survey and we pay for all of the oil changes and tire rotations for the term of the lease or for as long as the car stays titled to the same person. when you speak to one of our employees like we emptied out your 401k plan and left with the money to nigeria then you are going to immediatly get treated the way you are speaking to us.....like an a$$ hole....and good luck paying for your services on your own. point being....someone is always sold in every visit to a dealership.....its either you selling them on why they should do what you ask...or you getting sold that your out of luck. which guy do you want to be?

AlexusAnja

Not true, I was not talking about travel, but the actual brake performance. Once the pads run low, there will always be tendency for fade and more noise and vibrational feedback from the pads. Even old style squeel sensors, it gave you an audible when it was low, but usually the performance was still okay until you went another say 1K miles and then you would start feeling "grinding" although the pads may not necessarily have been grinding the rotors.

Okay, I was a little harsh on the term "stealership" but all I know from my twenty plus years of visiting dealerships infrequently is that I can't go in there without something "needing to be changed" and it usually was way BEFORE the required time frame for replacing the part (i.e. spark plugs and timing belt at 60K) and air filters which were dirty, when I had changed it myself less than 5K miles ago.

Rule of thumb, trust your own feelings and whether you want to or don't want to do the service is up to how "safe" you want to be with your vehicle in terms of maintenance. Timing belt at 60K, not necessary because it's rated to 90K and have not heard of anyone on forum having their belts snap prematurely, but what if you get that one bum belt that snaps at 80K? Hey, thus is life...

Forums are for people's opinions from their own experiences. My opinion, as I said before, are that dealerships are out to make money... if they don't pull in money, it doesn't matter how much they care for the customer, they won't be around for long.

With all this said, I've got two Lexus' now and it's all because of the good service experiences that I've had with the dealers during my few visits. I am not a "dealer basher" just not a "dealer truster"

Carmelstev

Cory-Do you have the tools to do it yourself? I did front pads in literally 35 minutes myself for about $70. I've changed pads on lots of cars, and this was by far the easiest I've seen. There's a great tutorial on this site.

Steve

vcheng

The pads themselves last quite long. However, the placement of the sensors is such that they will go off with about 40% of pad life remaining. The sensors are only on the right side of the car, one in the front and one in the back. It is a loop of wire embedded in a resin block attached to the pad with a small steel clip.

You can definitely wait until the warning light comes on, and perhaps even drive for a fair bit after that without fear of metallic contact between the rotors and the pad backing plate.

However, if that happens, you will need another set of sensors at about $160 in addition to the pads themselves if you want the light to go off.

Your choice. Replace pre-emptively now, or later at a greater cost.

AlexusAnja

35 min. for all 4? that's pretty good.

I read though a tutorial here and it had pictures explaining to removing pins and then sliding the pads out without turning the caliper up. I assume there are two or four pins that hold the caliper. On typical brake jobs, you remove the lower pin, and then tilt the caliper up, compress the piston(s), remove/replace the pads, then slide the caliper back down and install the pin. Does the LS430 not have this, or just doesn't need to be removed this way? From the tutorial, the compressing of the pistons look like it might be tough to leave the calipers in.

Anyway, thanks for info.

Kansas

The front pads on my 2000 LS400 were replaced for the first time in 2006 at just under 72,000 miles when a wear sensor triggered the brake pad warning message. The front pads were worn way down -- looked like less than 10% was left. The cost, including turning the rotors and new OEM pads, was less than $220. A new wear sensor was an additional $55.

The work was done at an indie shop by a former Lexus dealer mechanic at a shop owned by a former Lexus dealer service writer.

I doubt if the cost of a front brake job would be different for an LS430.

Rear brake pads last a lot longer. The original rear pads on my 00 LS are still doing fine at 104,000 miles and should last at least to 120,000 miles -- about the same pad life as on my previous 90 LS that I owned for almost 14 years.

krIStina

If in the end you do decide to change your brakes..
I'm able to get a good deal on brake pads and rotors.
So if you're interested, just let me know! =)

wilkie1020

I changed my brakes on my 05 LS430 at about 45K miles. They were worn very even on all four wheels. It looked like the the sensors on the right side of the car were near rubbing, which will ruin them & they cost some where near $100. I bought the new OEM pads for about $110. They are the easist brakes I've ever changed. It takes almost as long to remove & replace the wheels as it does to change the brakes. So if you wait until the sensors rub, it will almost double the cost & it is really a easy DIY job to do.

bigcory

Chaning the pads sounds very simple, but what about turning the rotors. The car does seem very smooth and braking is good, so they probably don't need it, but how do I even know?

Called an Independant shop and cost to do front's with rotors turned and OEM parts is about 200.

I'm handy and have changed disc brakes before. Just don't want to sacrafice on getting the rotors done. Any tips....

Carmelstev

Alexisanja-Yes, literally 35 minutes! First one took about 25 minutes, just seeing how it worked, next one about ten minutes. The pads just slide into slots, like drawers. By far the easiest brakes I've done.

Regarding rotors, I did the "feel" test and they were as smooth as glass. If I would have felt any ridges, I would have pulled them and had them surfaced.

Steve

CarguyinGa

I would advise against resurfacing the rotors if you don't have a pulsation condition or a scarred surface from metal/metal contact.

Brake pulsation can actually be the end result if they are not absolutely spot on after machining. It may not be apparent right after, but it can cause it to occur in the future if it has a slight runout after the resurface! The brake pads actually wear the rotor material away at a very slight rate, that is how the machining marks in a new rotor dissipate, if the rotor has a slight warp in it after machining, the pad will have a stronger contact at the higher point on each side of the rotor and cause a higher wear rate on the rotor at that spot, that wil result in what is known as RTV (rotor thickness variation). When you apply the brakes against a rotor of uneven thickness, it will cause a hydraulic pumping action back through the lines when the thicker zones line up with the pads and a drop when the thinner zones do, this interacts with the master cylinder pistons and hence you feel the brake pedal pulsate! Uneven wheel torque is a concern there also on some vehicles, Lexus manufactures good quality hubs that are stable, so it's not a real worry on the torque. Follow the tutorial on the replacement and leave the rotors alone is my advice, the pads will seat to them without any drama.

bigcory

I ended up taking it to a shop in San Jose. My sister took her Xterra there a year or so ago and I was happy with the service they provided. It was also average price. 180, plus 45 or so for one sensor. The sensor was actually rubbing down, but it never set a warning light in the car. Interesting....