Advice for Prospective Buyer
07-12-09, 12:50 PM
#31
Avalon isn't in the league with an LS. Period. Anyone who can't feel the difference must be blessed with nerves and a$$ made of wood. 
. But the upside is that you can be content with a car that you can get for much less money. 
I had a loaded 2009 ES350 as a loaner a few weeks ago. I mention this because I would not expect an Avalon to feel like a "better" car than a loaded ES. That car felt like a Honda Accord compared to my LS430 which I of course drove back-to-back with the ES. I was frankly shocked that there was so much difference.
Re: the Genesis, ironically enough, my wife and I drove the ES350 loaner over to the Hyundai dealership where she ran into an old highschool friend who is a salesperson there. We test-drove a just-off-the-truck Genesis 4.6 with every option that they offer -- their top-of-the-line Genesis sedan. It was very impressive, and ESPECIALLY so when you consider the acquisition price. The finish level on the inside was more impressive than the outside, but the outside is very nice. The under-hood, door and trunk jambs, etc. still looks a little bit lower grade but granted this is pretty minor stuff -- it's just that these areas, and a few items on the exterior, are the only things from an appearance standpoint that keeps the car from FULLY being in the top luxury class. But overall it was a pretty amazing car FOR THE PRICE. IMO it'd give a GS350 a pretty good battle in a comparison. I'd take the Lexus if price weren't a consideration (and if the GS were a 430 or 460, the choice for Lexus would be a no-brainer), but price considered, the Genesis is a hell of a contender, and probably the winner. The one thing that I noticed that surprised me on an otherwise impressive car was a somewhat high level of road noise. The other thing was that the super-duper-mega-watt stereo system didn't seem to sound that great (not as good as the Lexus systems, IMO), and seemed to have a minor rattle in the passenger side door, but that might be due to the fact that this car hadn't had a pre-delivery inspection, so I'll cut them some slack on that.
. But the upside is that you can be content with a car that you can get for much less money. I had a loaded 2009 ES350 as a loaner a few weeks ago. I mention this because I would not expect an Avalon to feel like a "better" car than a loaded ES. That car felt like a Honda Accord compared to my LS430 which I of course drove back-to-back with the ES. I was frankly shocked that there was so much difference.
Re: the Genesis, ironically enough, my wife and I drove the ES350 loaner over to the Hyundai dealership where she ran into an old highschool friend who is a salesperson there. We test-drove a just-off-the-truck Genesis 4.6 with every option that they offer -- their top-of-the-line Genesis sedan. It was very impressive, and ESPECIALLY so when you consider the acquisition price. The finish level on the inside was more impressive than the outside, but the outside is very nice. The under-hood, door and trunk jambs, etc. still looks a little bit lower grade but granted this is pretty minor stuff -- it's just that these areas, and a few items on the exterior, are the only things from an appearance standpoint that keeps the car from FULLY being in the top luxury class. But overall it was a pretty amazing car FOR THE PRICE. IMO it'd give a GS350 a pretty good battle in a comparison. I'd take the Lexus if price weren't a consideration (and if the GS were a 430 or 460, the choice for Lexus would be a no-brainer), but price considered, the Genesis is a hell of a contender, and probably the winner. The one thing that I noticed that surprised me on an otherwise impressive car was a somewhat high level of road noise. The other thing was that the super-duper-mega-watt stereo system didn't seem to sound that great (not as good as the Lexus systems, IMO), and seemed to have a minor rattle in the passenger side door, but that might be due to the fact that this car hadn't had a pre-delivery inspection, so I'll cut them some slack on that.
07-14-09, 12:46 PM
#33
UPDATE..... re: my comments on the ES350 loaner portion of my message below. Just today I had a 2010 ES350 loaner and it was NIGHT and DAY difference from the '09 that I had a couple of weeks ago. I was as shocked at the difference between these two cars as I was at the "lowgrade" feel of the '09 in the first place. As far as I know there are no significant changes between these model years, so the only way that I can explain is is that the '10 had Michelin MXV4's and the '09 had some type of Bridgestones (IIRC they were Bridgestones, but that might be wrong -- I just recall that they weren't Michelins). Even my wife commented by the time we'd driven about 1/10 of a mile on how different the cars felt (without me bringing up the subject), and she was in the passenger seat both times.
I know from 30+ years of experience that tires can make a HUGE difference in how a vehicle feels on the road, but this was pretty shocking if in fact tires were the only difference. The only other time I've seen this much difference from similar class tires was about 10 years ago when I test-drove a couple of twin turbo Supras back-to-back at a dealership in Roswell, GA and the only difference being the tires -- Michelins vs. Dunlops. I don't recall which brand was smoother and quieter on the Supra, but I recall being shocked at how dramatically different the cars felt and sounded on the road.
Anyway, I take back some of what I said about the ES350 and maybe some spill-over comment on the Avalon because this ES today was actually a fairly impressive car for what it is. No LS430, but it made a much better impression than the '09 a couple of weeks ago.
I know from 30+ years of experience that tires can make a HUGE difference in how a vehicle feels on the road, but this was pretty shocking if in fact tires were the only difference. The only other time I've seen this much difference from similar class tires was about 10 years ago when I test-drove a couple of twin turbo Supras back-to-back at a dealership in Roswell, GA and the only difference being the tires -- Michelins vs. Dunlops. I don't recall which brand was smoother and quieter on the Supra, but I recall being shocked at how dramatically different the cars felt and sounded on the road.
Anyway, I take back some of what I said about the ES350 and maybe some spill-over comment on the Avalon because this ES today was actually a fairly impressive car for what it is. No LS430, but it made a much better impression than the '09 a couple of weeks ago.
Avalon isn't in the league with an LS. Period. Anyone who can't feel the difference must be blessed with nerves and a$$ made of wood. . But the upside is that you can be content with a car that you can get for much less money.
I had a loaded 2009 ES350 as a loaner a few weeks ago. I mention this because I would not expect an Avalon to feel like a "better" car than a loaded ES. That car felt like a Honda Accord compared to my LS430 which I of course drove back-to-back with the ES. I was frankly shocked that there was so much difference.
Re: the Genesis, ironically enough, my wife and I drove the ES350 loaner over to the Hyundai dealership where she ran into an old highschool friend who is a salesperson there. We test-drove a just-off-the-truck Genesis 4.6 with every option that they offer -- their top-of-the-line Genesis sedan. It was very impressive, and ESPECIALLY so when you consider the acquisition price. The finish level on the inside was more impressive than the outside, but the outside is very nice. The under-hood, door and trunk jambs, etc. still looks a little bit lower grade but granted this is pretty minor stuff -- it's just that these areas, and a few items on the exterior, are the only things from an appearance standpoint that keeps the car from FULLY being in the top luxury class. But overall it was a pretty amazing car FOR THE PRICE. IMO it'd give a GS350 a pretty good battle in a comparison. I'd take the Lexus if price weren't a consideration (and if the GS were a 430 or 460, the choice for Lexus would be a no-brainer), but price considered, the Genesis is a hell of a contender, and probably the winner. The one thing that I noticed that surprised me on an otherwise impressive car was a somewhat high level of road noise. The other thing was that the super-duper-mega-watt stereo system didn't seem to sound that great (not as good as the Lexus systems, IMO), and seemed to have a minor rattle in the passenger side door, but that might be due to the fact that this car hadn't had a pre-delivery inspection, so I'll cut them some slack on that.
. But the upside is that you can be content with a car that you can get for much less money. I had a loaded 2009 ES350 as a loaner a few weeks ago. I mention this because I would not expect an Avalon to feel like a "better" car than a loaded ES. That car felt like a Honda Accord compared to my LS430 which I of course drove back-to-back with the ES. I was frankly shocked that there was so much difference.
Re: the Genesis, ironically enough, my wife and I drove the ES350 loaner over to the Hyundai dealership where she ran into an old highschool friend who is a salesperson there. We test-drove a just-off-the-truck Genesis 4.6 with every option that they offer -- their top-of-the-line Genesis sedan. It was very impressive, and ESPECIALLY so when you consider the acquisition price. The finish level on the inside was more impressive than the outside, but the outside is very nice. The under-hood, door and trunk jambs, etc. still looks a little bit lower grade but granted this is pretty minor stuff -- it's just that these areas, and a few items on the exterior, are the only things from an appearance standpoint that keeps the car from FULLY being in the top luxury class. But overall it was a pretty amazing car FOR THE PRICE. IMO it'd give a GS350 a pretty good battle in a comparison. I'd take the Lexus if price weren't a consideration (and if the GS were a 430 or 460, the choice for Lexus would be a no-brainer), but price considered, the Genesis is a hell of a contender, and probably the winner. The one thing that I noticed that surprised me on an otherwise impressive car was a somewhat high level of road noise. The other thing was that the super-duper-mega-watt stereo system didn't seem to sound that great (not as good as the Lexus systems, IMO), and seemed to have a minor rattle in the passenger side door, but that might be due to the fact that this car hadn't had a pre-delivery inspection, so I'll cut them some slack on that.
07-14-09, 02:47 PM
#34
Could it be that the '09 ES has been abused during its loaner life while the '10 ES is still relatively brand new???
Honestly, after hearing the ML system in two 2006 LS430s (modern lux and custom lux), i am not impress at all!
Trust me, i really want to like it a lot...as you can tell from my previous posts. I don't listen to rap or hard metal...i listen to pop, country, and easy listening. The staging is fine, but the imaging is far from perfect (despite what lexus says). Sound itself is fine, but from the driver's seat, the sound is mostly coming from the left, not centered in front of the driver nor in the middle of the dash. The rear seat sound is not particularly good either...very average at best. I really wanted to like the ML after hearing so much rave about it from the press...one of the main reason why i looked into the LS in the first place as a future car.
I can tell you that the Avalon's JBL system easily rivals the ML in the LS, but it may not sound as clear on the highway due to the road noise.
Honestly, after hearing the ML system in two 2006 LS430s (modern lux and custom lux), i am not impress at all!
Trust me, i really want to like it a lot...as you can tell from my previous posts. I don't listen to rap or hard metal...i listen to pop, country, and easy listening. The staging is fine, but the imaging is far from perfect (despite what lexus says). Sound itself is fine, but from the driver's seat, the sound is mostly coming from the left, not centered in front of the driver nor in the middle of the dash. The rear seat sound is not particularly good either...very average at best. I really wanted to like the ML after hearing so much rave about it from the press...one of the main reason why i looked into the LS in the first place as a future car.I can tell you that the Avalon's JBL system easily rivals the ML in the LS, but it may not sound as clear on the highway due to the road noise.
Last edited by tigmd99; 07-14-09 at 02:53 PM.
07-14-09, 07:25 PM
#35
Tires
Just like the suspension, there is always a "give-n-take" between tires. If you want one that handles and doesn't give as much, you get a harsh ride. If you want a tire that's more forgiving on rough pavement, then it's going to lean on turns. It's just physics...
07-15-09, 05:24 PM
#36
Adjust the dsp!
Honestly, after hearing the ML system in two 2006 LS430s (modern lux and custom lux), i am not impress at all! The staging is fine, but the imaging is far from perfect (despite what lexus says). Sound itself is fine, but from the driver's seat, the sound is mostly coming from the left, not centered in front of the driver nor in the middle of the dash. The rear seat sound is not particularly good either...very average at best.
I can tell you that the Avalon's JBL system easily rivals the ML in the LS, but it may not sound as clear on the highway due to the road noise.
I can tell you that the Avalon's JBL system easily rivals the ML in the LS, but it may not sound as clear on the highway due to the road noise.
Select the AUDIO button, then press the DSP option. You can then change the DSP setup. There are 4 different choices..DRIVER SEAT...DRIVER & PASSENGER SEATS...REAR SEAT OCCUPANTS...and FRONT & BACK SEATS.
My setup was on DRIVERS SEAT (highlighted in yellow). I then changed it to DRIVER & PASSENGER SEATS, and WOWOWOWOWOWWWWW!!!
HUUGE DIFFERENCE.Check that out...you may be very surprised at how much BETTER the system sounds!!!!
07-16-09, 01:28 PM
#38
The '10 was virtually brand new, but the '09 only had about 3500 miles on it IIRC. The only thing that I can figure is that there really was that much difference in the tires. But it's almost an unbelievable amount of difference -- it'd be a little easier to believe if I learned that the '09 had some very poorly selected aftermarket tires on it, or were inflated to about 90 PSI. LOL But I assume they were the OEM's and more or less properly inflated, so I really don't know what else could explain it... Just a night and day difference....
07-17-09, 08:10 PM
#39
Hey Damon, not sure where you are in the country but at Lexus of Rockville here in the Washington DC metro area there is a black (or dark blue) on black LS430 in the parking lot for $17,500 I did not get up close on it so I am not sure of the mileage. It looked like a 04-06.
google them...
Cheers,
Ian
google them...
Cheers,
Ian
07-20-09, 06:54 AM
#40
Just on the Avalon vs. LS430 debate, I myself was looking for an Avalon a few years ago when I stumbled on to my LS430 that was for sale, and I am so glad I got my LS430. There really isn't any comparison between the two, the LS430 (especially the 2004-2006) is widely recognized by car magazines as one of the best cars ever made; the Avalon, while a great car and well reviewed, is generally nicknamed the "Japanese Buick".
On a more practical side, the only other big difference is FWD and RWD. I live in Calgary, Canada, which also gets cold (-30) and snowy winters, but I suspect you get more snow in Toronto (I went to university there). You will need dedicated winter tires, but personally I have found that as long as you don't try anything stupid (driving into snowbanks), I have never had any problems with hills or stopping, the traction control and other features on the LS430 are pretty amazing for a large RWD car. I'd say get the LS430, but get some Dunlop Winter Sport M4s or a similar premium winter tire.
On a more practical side, the only other big difference is FWD and RWD. I live in Calgary, Canada, which also gets cold (-30) and snowy winters, but I suspect you get more snow in Toronto (I went to university there). You will need dedicated winter tires, but personally I have found that as long as you don't try anything stupid (driving into snowbanks), I have never had any problems with hills or stopping, the traction control and other features on the LS430 are pretty amazing for a large RWD car. I'd say get the LS430, but get some Dunlop Winter Sport M4s or a similar premium winter tire.
07-21-09, 01:22 PM
#41
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: On
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UPDATE:
Well after my prospective Lexus was sold two weeks ago, I started looking at other cars and the BMW 750LI crossed my mind - went to the dealership and saw the interior - it is horrendous. I just couldn't do it, I fell in love with the LS430. Great news - another Black LS430 2005 is up for sale, and Its just about mine - comes with the ultra luxury package and get this... Only 18000 KMS !! Wish me luck as I plan to make the trek to Toronto from Ottawa on Friday to get my dream car.
Well after my prospective Lexus was sold two weeks ago, I started looking at other cars and the BMW 750LI crossed my mind - went to the dealership and saw the interior - it is horrendous. I just couldn't do it, I fell in love with the LS430. Great news - another Black LS430 2005 is up for sale, and Its just about mine - comes with the ultra luxury package and get this... Only 18000 KMS !! Wish me luck as I plan to make the trek to Toronto from Ottawa on Friday to get my dream car.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ReggieT
LS - 3rd Gen (2001-2006)
137
12-24-18 05:44 PM
ironhorse
LS - 4th Gen (2007-2017)
194
08-20-12 11:21 AM
