Badmon

Hey, I recognize that there is a vast amount of knowledge on this board hence why I've turned here for some advice. I am looking to purchase a vehicle and I have two different options that I've lowered it down to.. a new 2009 Toyota Avalon XLS vs. a 2005 Lexus LS 430 Sport Package w/ Navigation.

I recognize there are obvious differences, FWD vs. RWD, Name etc.

I live in Toronto , so winters should be taken into consideration.

I'm not too worried about gas mileage.

The Lexus is truly in immaculate condition.

The Avalon would be at least 5000 more.

One last point - the Lexus has 35 000 KM on it (21 800 Miles)

Thank you for your help.

hoonunya

The LS is a great luxury car; the Avalon is a good family car. The LS stickered for approximately twice an Avalon. With the mileage the LS should be near new condition. You'd love the LS for a long time. The Avalon will just be a car before long.
For me it is no comparison, but I have no contribution related to the weather.

98LS

There's no doubt that the Avalon is a nice car but for $5,000 less you can own a world-class luxury sedan with very low mileage. If memory serves, Toronto is relatively flat, so you wouldn't have to be concerned with going up and down hills when it's slippery. So, I would go with the LS.

KILLERGS4

Avalon
LS430
no need to ask in this forum...

warminwisc

Personally, I liked a used LS a whole lot better to a new Avalon when i drove them side by side. Especially if you are getting one with sport suspension.

You will need to keep good rubber on the LS and or go with snows.

Badmon

Thank you all very much for your response. It looks like I'm leaning towards the LS, going to the dealership tomorrow.
Any other opinions or elaborated details would be greatly appreciated.

As well, could anyone offer up a comparison of the JBL Synthesis vs. Mark Levinson Audio systems that come equipped with each vehicle.

mndaves

We did the same comparison last year. We had driven several larger sedans (Avalon, Cadillac STS, Lincoln MKS, Hyundai Genesis, Buick Lucerne, Chevy Impala) and decided the Avalon was the best - most options, best ride, best reliability, impressive (relative) MPG. On the way to Toyota to buy the Avalon (after several Avalon test drives) we stopped at Lexus of Maplewood just to see what the comparable Lexus model was like. After two minutes in the LS430 we were sold and had forgotten all about the Avalon. Even three years old (at the time) and with 45K miles the Lexus was FAR superior - more options, extremely quiet, more power, more luxurious, comparable MPG, similar price (to new Avalon). We bought Certified Pre-Owned, so also got better warranty (100,000 miles) and better financing. We're now at 60K miles and the car still looks and runs new. (We were at a premium car wash the other day asking about exterior detailing and the owner asked why we were interested since we had a new car...)

Believe us, this is a no-brainer. Drive the LS and you'll never want the Avalon. Especially with the low miles on the car you're looking at.

As for winter driving, we're in MN. When we bought the car our salesman told us to drive our FWD vehicle those few days each winter (MN winters aren't what they used to be, at least in Minneapolis) when it was snowing. But we never blink about driving the LS in the snow and even without snow tires have had no problems. Slow down, be careful, and you'll be just fine. We grew up driving RWD in all weather and that was before ABS, TC, etc. So driving the LS in the snow is not an issue.

Good luck! The Daves

debian

MNDaves...I would love to hear what you thought of the Hyundai Genesis. Looking at the stats it has more room than the LS...did you drive it? If so tell us how it feels.
Frankly they have not made them long enough for me to consider it and it has that big H on the back that is just a let down frankly.
Looking at the L on the front and back of my car has a value all of its own.
cheers,
Ian

AlexusAnja

I test drove the V6 version when it first came out (I was not seriously thinking of buying one, just curious to see if really up to Lexus quality) last year and I must say, I was quite impressed and thought it was the better deal than the GS. It had more leg room, the fit-n-finish quality was top notch (it just came off the truck, it better be good) and styling is subjective, but I liked it. I especially like the leather dash. I actually thought for some reason going in, that it would be tacky, but it ended up being pretty well executed.

Enough of the praise, now why it didn't win me over. Although I was not considering it when I went in to drive, if a vehicle is VERY impressive, then it wins you over unexpectedly. The Hyundai just, I feel, meets the Lexus quality bar very close. Also, if you'll note above what I had written, it beats the GS easily, the LS, not so much. V6 handling was quoted by many to be about the same as the V8, which means to me that the V8 isn't that good then, because although the 6 was strong, it wasn't LS strong or smooth. Also, although I like the leather dash, I don't like the dash design. That brush-metal "smiley" U in the middle, the Hyundai/Ford Windstar looking steering wheel, the better than regular leather (but not semi-analine), just were not good for me.

In the end, it was well executed and a very good first attempt to beat Lexus, but that's that. Will it win customers over, of course it will... and it has. I think it has it's place in the market for sure, but in the long run, I don't Hyundai will be able to sell a Genesis or further upper model, under the Hyundai nameplate.

mndaves

Ian:

We drove the Genesis at a Hyundai event at the Mall of America. They set up a course (slalom wet with soap and water, sharp turns, hard straight acceleration, and hard braking) and let you test the Genesis against MB (not sure, but probably a C Class), a Cadillac CTS, and a third car we didn't drive so I can't remember what it was (it wasn't impressive). Of the three, we liked the Genesis the best in just about everything. A nice first effort, and it held up well against the others. BUT it still isn't an LS. I agree with everything AlexusAnja says. I would compare it favorably to a GS but not to an LS, but having only driven one loaner GS I can't compare too closely. But in my opinion there is no comparison to the LS. It wasn't as smooth, quiet, or luxurious, and I also didn't think the room was nearly as good as the LS.

98LS

I got to see, but not drive, a Genesis at the local auto show. I was quite impressed, but as others have said, it's not a LS. I believe that the Genesis is aimed to compete with the GS. Hyundai has another luxury sedan (can't remember the name) that it a step up from the Genesis but is not available in the U.S. at this time.

rcpeters

For those of you thinking about a Hyundai, find out first where your nearest dealer is located. If not convenient, then is a 100K warranty really useful?

I rented a Hyundai Azera before buying the LS430. Nice car sure, but not in the same class as the Lexus cars. I have not looked at the Genesis, but I suppose it is a nice car. Recently, I rented a Toyota Avalon. Nice car, but I can't think of anything special about it. My LS430 has lots of storage spaces (two glove boxes, secret place to store you billfold and some other places too) and room. I find the pass thru to the trunk useful too. Nice sounding V8 engine. Reminds me of the Cadillacs of the old days before they started making junk.

AlexusAnja

I believe you're thinking the Equios, or something like that. A turdy looking vehicle IMHO. The Genesis with it's generic styling looks much better.

The Equios is over $70K in the domestic Korean market, no way that thing is coming to US at that price and if it comes even close to $50K, it's going to raise eyebrows at US Dept. for anti-dumping laws. The Genesis is probably close to, if not, considered vehicle dumping.

Someone noted that Genesis was put up against the MB "C" and the Caddy CTS. Price wise, it's a match, but size and luxury wise, not even close. The Genesis just really can't be compared to anything, in either size or price wise in the luxury market. To compare based on price, it's comparable to the entry level luxury vehicles, but if you compare by size, then it's up against the mid-sized luxury vehicles, but price is so much less.

I'm not so sure tha someone who would buy a CTS, would necessarily want to go up to the size of a Genesis, and the buyer that wants a GS, is probably not really going to want to buy a Genesis. I'm thinking the Genesis will steal more Accord/Camry buyers than say the GS, M, 545, E class buyers.

Anyway, back to topic... suggestion for prospecive buyer of LS... get a bottle of touchup paint, you'll need it after several miles of highway driving. The paint is like rice paper thin, chips like it was hit with rockets or something.

debian

correct about the chips! I second Anja's statement about touch up paint.
Get the LS...
cheers,
Ian

98LS

[I believe you're thinking the Equios, or something like that.]

Yep, that's it. The hood ornament looks ridiculous.

Also, a third to Anja's take on the paint chips!