GSteg

iTrader: (15)

If feel is what you want, then I guess your next vehicle should be an electric car. Power off the line, plus no combustion noise. Just linear power until redline.

0-30, 0-60, quarter mile (ET and trap), the GS350 kicks the GS430 butt all the way until maybe 110mph+. Just one of the many cases where the V6 shines over the V8 of the same model. Not really something you'd expect, but it happens.

But does a V6 really make the LS less of a car than it really is? It still has all the fine appointments, except it doesn't have a V8 under the hood. Now I know how it feels when the the guy next to you buys an S500 for $100k less than your S65 just to have the same body style. But in the end, you know you paid more for something special. In the case of the LS, the one in the LS460 knows he has the V8 under the hood and the money is well spent. The LS' image wouldn't be degraded at all if a V6 model was available.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Yes you are 100% correct. Electric power is ideal for a luxury car. Rolls Royces is developing a full electric car for this reason. As soon as the battery technologies is mature, my daily driver will be electric. If not, my next daily driver is very likely an electric hybrid, LS600hL, GS450h...etc.

I know it happens, I just never pay much attention to the GS350, because I would always want the V8 if it is available, just for the low end torque rush and feels.

I just hate the idea of a cheaper car that is very similar to the one you pay more for. I think there should be big differences between different level of cars, looks, equipment level, power.....etc. I guess it is because I hate posers, pay less for a strip down model that look identical to the fully loaded one. I already hate the fact that a base model $56k LS460 looks pretty much identical to a $125k LS600hL, now they want to put a V6 in it? Come on!

KILLERGS4

I personally think the LS350 will do lot better than previous S350. Lexus customers are more practical than Benz customers. It was really rare to see S350 on the road, but I don't think that would be the case for LS350. Some people just wants big size, with lots of luxury but not necessarily want all the power. I could be wrong.

I don't know about you guys, but I've been seen a good number of Bentley's (D.C. metro area), maybe people are picking them up (cheap) pre-owned. I rather have S65 over Bentley any day of the WEEK! S65 is so much car, even LeBron James opt for S63 instead...

encore888

Going back a bit there was also the 300 SEL and 300 SE...inline-6 engines. If an LS 350 is produced I think it will be primarily for displacement-tax markets. I think we could see an efficiency-focused LS 400h/450h or something...

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I agreed 100% with you there.

That has a lot to do with personal preferences. I am mostly thinking from the status point of view. The S65 is still a benz....... is like how a fully loaded Camry is about the same price as a base model ES350, but anyway you look at it, the ES350 got a whole lot more status.

The S65 basically just got more power for a lot more money then a S63, most people don't need any more power then what the S63 has already. So even if they can afford it, they don't need it.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Now what if they offered the LS350 first, and then the LS460 second. Would your opinion change? After all in the end, they're offering both cars. Great thing about luxury cars is that you're not stuck with one engine/transmission/etc. There are various configurations that fits your needs and if you are willing to pay for a higher end model, then the badge will certainly show it

I certainly know what you mean about the 'posers'. I see lots and lots of BMW 525i (less power than a garage door opener) and many of those drivers brag about owning a 5-series.

AlexusAnja

Partnership with Daimler, don't see that happening. I think it's pure speculation on a slow autoblog day.

As for V6, why not? Variety is the spice of life. As long as the V6 version doesn't lack any major features (say TOTL Ultra Package or something) and is the only difference that you can get, then I think there will be buyers who would opt for that both on a ecological basis as well as cost savings.

If Lexus could somehow bump the torque to say 290-310 ftlb on the V6 and have a 0-60 of 6.9-7.5s, then I can see people gobbling it up as an option.

Also, times they will be a changing... the last sentence in the V6 fumor article speculates it best as to why... the "CAFE" regulations. You can't just pump out big engines and guzzling gas, it's gotta even out and although Toyota is good with engine displacements and fuel efficiency, putting a V6 makes more sense here too.

Would I consider it on an LS? Factoring that it's the "bid dawg" in Lexus' lineup and if I'm buying the big bad boy, then really only a V8 is going to "feel right." But like I said before... it's an option, and the more options the better.

Personally, I'd rather see Lexus come out with a minivan... then I MIGHT be able to convince my wife to get one.

Kansas

It used to be that "an LS is an LS" -- no matter the level of equipment, they all looked the same from the outside, had the same badges on the rear, and everyone lumped them into the same basic car class. I had one of the lowest specification 1990 LS400's ever sold (cloth non-memory seats, no CD player, no Traction Control) but owners with high spec LS cars didn't seem to look down on it. If anything, they found my low ball LS400 especially interesting.

Now, Toyota has let the cat out of the bag by creating classes of LS cars with different badges on the rear: LS460, LS460 AWD, LS460L, LS460L AWD, LS600h.

The LS350 is only a continuation of the direction Toyota has been going. Now owners of the basic LS460 will have someone to look down their noses at.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I don't think so. I think what Lexus doing currently is perfect. LS is V8 only, it is ok for the GS to have both V6 and V8 because it is an in between car that offer both purpose. IS got a small and big V6 and V8 on the performance model that look completely different. Now it would be wrong to put a 4 cylinders in the IS and a V6 in the LS, it just degrades it.

Like I think it is a good idea that Lexus only comes with leather interior. I think it is weird for the Camry to have leather optional, it just dilutes and mix it up too much!

I know why and the purpose of it, is so it fit everyone's preferences. Some people just want a big LS without the power. But think what if Ferrari put a 4 cylinders in their F430 with 200 hp, sell it for $80k for people who just want the Ferrari looks, but don't need or don't want to pay for the very expensive engine? What does that do to the V8 F430 owners that pay $250k for their cars? That is so wrong. So some people who normally can't afford a Ferrari is driving around in a car that looks identical, that is wrong.

Exactly, and some of those 525i owners take the badge off, or better yet, put a M5 badge on and install 4 cheap tailpipes from Pepboys

LexusJoey

2 reasons why as much as I like the looks of the ES350, I did not get one.
1. FWD
2. Glorified Camry

Toyota does not have a V8 in any of their cars (passenger, excluding SUV/Trucks). That is what makes the LS a LS (Luxury Sedan). If the make a V6, then It'll be a glorified Avalon.

As everyone said, full size luxury sedans should be low reving, high hp, high tq. That's part of what makes them exclusive.
Lets hope they at least have the option of buying a V8 as well.

AlexusAnja

The ES I can accept being a "glorified" Camry if you will because they share the same mechanics (although interior and exterior share no parts), but putting a V6 does not in any way make the LS then a glorified Avalon. They're not the same platform or anything else.

By your logic, we'd have to say then that any "luxury" vehicle is a glorified of something else if all you compare is number of cylinders and relative size.

Back to Camry and ES350, there's more to the ES than just it's beginnings, it's the extra detail and care put into the vehicle that makes it a Lexus. This is not the 1st Gen ES250 we're comparing now.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

In reality, it is true that most premium cars are glorified of something else because most premium cars uses platforms and mechanical bits from the lower basic models. As low as Camry/Avalon/ES350, to the top 760iL/RR Ghost, Bentley Mulsanne/Bugatti Galibier........etc. The W16 engine in the Veyron is basically 2 VW W8 engines mated together. So yeah, you can even call the Veyron a glorified VW. But I don't see anything wrong with that, glorified means fancy, and a premium car is exactly that, a fancier car.

Exactly, the Camry and ES350 might look similar with the same mechanical bits, but every little details are different about them, it is all in the fine tuning. The ES350 feels totally different then a Camry when you drive it, it is quieter, smoother.....etc. Even the 1st gen ES250 are better in everyways compare to the Camry that it was based on.

LexusJoey

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the ES350. The car is not a Camry by any means.
All I'm saying is that "people" have tainted the ES by saying it's a Camry as may the LS to the Avalon.


Prior to buying the LS, I had considered and test drove the 05-06 Acura RL. The V6 was one reason it did deter me from buying it. And that's Acura's Flagship car. Come to think of it, if the RL did sport a V8, I may have purchased it over the LS.

V8_Fan

x2. There's a saying: "Horsepower sells cars while torque wins races." When it comes to acceleration from a dead stop or uphill, torque is what makes you accelerate. Just throw horsepower into the toilet, as it only plays a role if you drive with your engine reving at 4000rpm or higher. While the V6's put out equivalent HP numbers (and at very high rpms), their torque pales in comparison to a v8. The only way a V6 can compare to a v8 in acceleration if it's a v6 turbo diesel, preferably a twin turbo. Diesels output their max torque at low rpms (like 1200 rpm...almost at idle!) while gasoline engines don't hit max torque until 3600-4600 rpm. Toyota SUV engines like in the landcruiser/LX have good torque response on the low end, much better than Nissan engines, which perform at the high-end. The 3UZ is basically the same engine as the 2UZ (LX470) and 1UZ (LS400), with the 2UZ being bored out more for more low-end torque. The way to get more torque is more displacement (I don't think necessarily more cylinders; you have get decent torque in a 5 liter I-6, but it's tough making a 6-cylinder w/ high displacement (=huge size).

If you ever drive the ES350 loaner cars, while the V6 has decent HP numbers, if you drive at 75mph uphill, even with 2 people in the car, it will downshift and rev up to keep the engine in the optimum torque band to maintain speed while the V8 will just stay in the same gear longer w/o downshifting due to the higher torque.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

You got it my friend The purpose of a luxury car is comfort, so it needs to be calm, relax, while being able to move at a decent pace to feel good. Which means an engine with huge low end torque, displacement produce torque, more cylinders just makes it smoother. A luxury car needs to be able to go up a steep incline at a decent pace at 3000 rpm, silently and calmly. You don't want a high strung smaller displacement engine screaming at high rpm all gung-ho, that is not comfort, that is excitment. You want that in your weekend sports car, not your daily luxury car. The weekend sports car, you want it to be a high strung high rpm screamer to make you excited