06~ULTRA

iTrader: (2)

Dont know if this is late news..But DAMN, I dont think this merge would be a good thing for Lexus/Toyota if it happens. Also putting a v6 in a LS..so its gonna be called LS350? that just doesn't seem like a good idea. IMO www.autoblog.com/tag/ls

caddyowner

MB's last partnership didn't go so well and left them in a much weaker position. If they choose to dance with Toyota, they'd have accept that they would be following - something the Germans don't do naturally.

As for the V6, alas, it's becoming the standard "big engine" in the green PC world. I know many people who wouldn't consider any car with a V8 - regardless of luxury brand or MPG ratings. Me, I'm tired of buzzy torque-less V6s and need to go back to a V8. A V6 is OK in my putt, putt weekend chore truck, but not my daily driver.

Tee

Interesting for sure.

sojah

iTrader: (1)

well i really hope mb's funk doesn't rub off on lex. i gots nothing wrong with a smaller more efficient engine though. its the evolution of the auto.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

There's a thread in the LS460 section somewhere.

Don't forget the V6 is more for the European/Asian markets where it's less costly taxwise...

The only V6 so far from the luxobarge was the S350 (the old w220) that they had here in the US.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Previous V6s were obviously not as powerful as their V8 counterparts. However with technologies made today, we have V6 engines making more power than V8s of just a few years ago. In fact, a GS350 is quicker than the GS430 all around until you hit triple digits.

I wouldn't mind having an LS350 in the lineup. It'll boost sales anyways due to the lower pricing and for most folks, the potent 3.5L from Toyota is more than you can ask for.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Agreed 100%. Only a large displacement low revving V8 or V12 can provide that ultimate relax luxury feeling.

Buzzy high strung V6 is ok in a weekend sports car like in the Nissan GTR, where everytime you drive it, you are flooring it anyway, you don't need the relax smooth feeling. As long as there is enough boost to make it powerful.

I still prefer a V8/V10/V12 in a sports car though, of course more is always better, but don't have that luxury in the Japanese car world. And I can't afford the crazy European price tags.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

You have to look at the whole picture, don't just focus on peak power.

Yes the latest 3.5L V6 from Toyota make a little more peak power then the older 4.3L V8, but look at the peak torque, the V6 make A LOT less peak torque at a much higher rpm, so when the V8 makes 320 lb-ft at 3400 rpm, the V6 only makes 220 lb-ft or so, the difference is HUGE, it matters a lot in a luxury car. My LS430 can go up a steep hill at a decent speed at 3k rpm, smooth, relax, drama free. Where in a GS350, going up the same hill at the same speed, the tranny have to kick down a gear or 2, rev up a lot higher to achieve the same speed. That is extra drama, extra noise and harshness, that is unpleasant feeling you don't want in a luxury car. It is ok in a sports car where you are looking for excitment and drama. But after a long day of work going home, I want as little drama/noise/harshness/rev as possible.

You got it backward there, the GS430 is quicker then the GS350 from 0-60 mph due to the much higher low end torque. At freeway speed though, the GS350 could be a hair faster due to the little higher peak engine power.

Boosting sales is cool, and yes most people only need the V6. But it sure would depreciate the image of the LS. As you can imagine owners of $190k AMG S65 hate the idea of the $70k S350 having the same body style.

Tee

Yeah they do and that is why the by a AMG so there won't be any chances to mistake the two.

S350


AMG S65


You really know from the rear

LexFather

Benzs, BMWs, Jags, Audis have offered small 6 cylinders in their flagships in Europe since day one. They stopped offering them here mainly b/c of the LS and b/c they didn't sell that great.

They even have smaller diesels offered in their flagships. The fact is Lexus has to continue to evolve and the day maybe coming where we see a V-6 LS.

The new S400 hybrid Benz will offer here is a V-6 hybrid.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Trust me, I've looked at the whole picture. Check out the Car Chat forum for more topics like these. I've spent time analyzing such ideas and from a buyers standpoint, offering an LS350 is a good idea.

Higher low end torque doesn't say much when you dont factor in gearing.

GS350 is quicker than GS430. It's been proven in magazines and in real life situation (plenty of owners can attest to this). Look at the trap speed for both car.. the GS350 wins and its just a testament of of how efficient the drivetrain is relative to the outdated 430.

But you're right. The V8 will be smoother due to its natural firing order, but a smooth and powerful V6 is not out of the question. In fact, when I drove an IS350 as of recent, it was quieter and just as smooth as my V8. Only issue I had with the 350 engine was that it sounded like a diesel at idle due to the direct injection system, but that's not a V6 problem.

7-series and S-class dont seem to have a problem with image. I say it's only a problem when you have some sort of 2.2L 170hp I4 petrol engine in a large heavy flagship. But as pointed out, if you want the 'image', go for the v8 model. Until Lexus only offers V6 in LS, I say its image will remain stable.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Yes to a real car enthusiast, they look very different.

But to most normal folks, it is the same thing. And one big reason to spend that much money on a car is for image, status right? Most normal folks don't think a S65 have a higher status then a S350. Actually most normal folks don't even know the S65 exist, I know a lady who is extremely materialistic, she think Benz is king because of the badge and she is a big fan. She doesn't even know model like the S63 and S65 exist, she only know about S420, S500, S550, she think the highest model S-class cost no more then $100k! I told her the S65 is almost $200k, she was shocked and have no idea what it is.

It is the biggest criticism to the Maybach, as cool as it is, people can always call it a rebadged, dressed up old generation S-class. I am guessing that is why it doesn't sell well, for people who is shopping for a $400k car, image is very high on their must have list, they much rather have a Rolls or Bentley.

It is the #1 way people make fun of the Lexus ES350, they think it is just a Camry.

You put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I have driven everything, that was my opinion. I think most of all, V8 "feels" a lot quicker and give you that serene feeling that no V6 can. The V6 car might physically be quicker, but it doesn't feel like it. The "feel" is what a luxury car all about.

True, but I assumed their gearing is very similar, if not the same.

With trap speed, you are talking about 1/4 mile drag now. I was saying the V8 car got to be quicker from off the line out of the hole, 0-30...40....50 mph.

I agreed the V6 can be very smooth and powerful, but it would never match a V8.

I hate that diesel idle sounds too, thankfully you don't hear much of it inside the car with the windows fully closed.

My point was, a $190k S65 is still a S-class to most folks. Sure 7-series and S-class have a lot of image, but only $100k image. When you are getting close to $200k, is getting into the exotic level, no one call a S65 an exotic car. But a low end Bentley have that exotic image. A $190k Bentley have way higher image then a S65.

I just hate it when car companies dilute the brand name or models with lower or higher offering. Like how you can buy a base model 128i BMW for $30k or a base model Boxster for $45k, I know they do it to boost the sales, I don't blame them. But I love companies like Ferrari for sticking to their game, they don't make anything cheap, they only stay in the highend market.

Now a days, it is all screw up, Hyundai is going higher end and Aston Martin is making an econobox. Cars like the Aston Martin Cygnet is just wrong. So a Hyundai can actually be higher level then an Aston Martin, that is dumb

06~ULTRA

iTrader: (2)

QUOTE;I have driven everything, that was my opinion. I think most of all, V8 "feels" a lot quicker and give you that serene feeling that no V6 can. The V6 car might physically be quicker, but it doesn't feel like it. The "feel" is what a luxury car all about.



+1 Thats exactly how i feel about this. The LS has always been known to be a big, luxury, smooth and reliable car and if their v8 engines get replaced by a v6 then I cant see them doing good. How will this effect resale prices on the v8's.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Actually I want huge depreciation, I want my next car to be a slightly used fully loaded LS600hL for $30k

So maybe they should make a LS250