Shopping Trip
11-10-09, 06:56 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Shopping Trip
I'm off to look at some LS430s tomorrow morning:
- 04 ML w/ sport suspension at a Toyota dealership.
- 02 premium, 04 UL, 05 ML, 2 06 MLs at a Lexus dealership.
Goals are:
- Determine if the sport suspension is a gotta-have
- Determine if the CL upgrades in the UL are gotta-haves
- Determine if flint mica is the right color
- Determine if Nav and MLev are gotta-haves.
I will report back tomorrow night.
- 04 ML w/ sport suspension at a Toyota dealership.
- 02 premium, 04 UL, 05 ML, 2 06 MLs at a Lexus dealership.
Goals are:
- Determine if the sport suspension is a gotta-have
- Determine if the CL upgrades in the UL are gotta-haves
- Determine if flint mica is the right color
- Determine if Nav and MLev are gotta-haves.
I will report back tomorrow night.
11-10-09, 07:26 PM
#2
Lead Lap
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ca
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Mlev & Nav are not an option, you will kick yourself for not picking up a model with them.
If you plan on keeping the car for ever, pass on the CL/UL air suspension-door closers-double/laminated windows- The air suspension seems to be a common weak point. There have been complaints of the laminated glass separating. Door closers, i dont think i have heard enough complaining about them to call them a problem point, but 1k per door for replacment parts...
If you plan on keeping the car for ever, pass on the CL/UL air suspension-door closers-double/laminated windows- The air suspension seems to be a common weak point. There have been complaints of the laminated glass separating. Door closers, i dont think i have heard enough complaining about them to call them a problem point, but 1k per door for replacment parts...
11-11-09, 03:58 AM
#3
These are mine:
- Determine if the sport suspension is a gotta-have
< Doubt it will matter much, unless you're bringing your LS to the track often. Getting sports suspension for this is like putting a rear wing on a mini-van, don't matter any...>
- Determine if the CL upgrades in the UL are gotta-haves
< What do you mean Custom Luxury upgrades in the Ultra Luxury? They are two different trims. If you don't need all the fancy stuff, but just want or need NAV, then get the Modern Luxury, it's fine enough. >
- Determine if flint mica is the right color
< This is one of the best colors out there. >
- Determine if Nav and MLev are gotta-haves.
< If you want to be modern, you gotta have it...
>
- Determine if the sport suspension is a gotta-have
< Doubt it will matter much, unless you're bringing your LS to the track often. Getting sports suspension for this is like putting a rear wing on a mini-van, don't matter any...>
- Determine if the CL upgrades in the UL are gotta-haves
< What do you mean Custom Luxury upgrades in the Ultra Luxury? They are two different trims. If you don't need all the fancy stuff, but just want or need NAV, then get the Modern Luxury, it's fine enough. >
- Determine if flint mica is the right color
< This is one of the best colors out there. >
- Determine if Nav and MLev are gotta-haves.
< If you want to be modern, you gotta have it...
>
11-11-09, 05:29 AM
#4
Moderator
If you are going to keep the LS for a few years, I'd avoid the Nav. I personally prefer non Nav LS because:
1. there is a lot less complex stuff to break in a non-Nav LS
2. I use a Garmin Nuvi and want the ability to easily upgrade every other year or so. I like getting traffic alerts, local gas prices, junction assistance from my Nuvi
3. If the Nav goes out in the LS repair cost is ridiculous
4. Map updates on the Garmin are $79 or $149 for lifetime updates
5. No silly restrictive rules from Lexus on changing locations while driving with the Garmin
6. Finally the non Nav has a more simple, elegant and easy to use interface and ergonomics - to me a car dash should NOT have a crappy video game interface embedded in the dash - it already looks obsolete and dated.
7. Map updates from Lexus costly
JMHO - some people love the inbuilt Lexus Nav and its interface and ergonomics - me I'll pass. Note- I bought an 06 LS and intend to keep it for 10 years. I am not typical car buyer.
1. there is a lot less complex stuff to break in a non-Nav LS
2. I use a Garmin Nuvi and want the ability to easily upgrade every other year or so. I like getting traffic alerts, local gas prices, junction assistance from my Nuvi
3. If the Nav goes out in the LS repair cost is ridiculous
4. Map updates on the Garmin are $79 or $149 for lifetime updates
5. No silly restrictive rules from Lexus on changing locations while driving with the Garmin
6. Finally the non Nav has a more simple, elegant and easy to use interface and ergonomics - to me a car dash should NOT have a crappy video game interface embedded in the dash - it already looks obsolete and dated.
7. Map updates from Lexus costly
JMHO - some people love the inbuilt Lexus Nav and its interface and ergonomics - me I'll pass. Note- I bought an 06 LS and intend to keep it for 10 years. I am not typical car buyer.
11-11-09, 05:32 AM
#5
I'm off to look at some LS430s tomorrow morning:
- 04 ML w/ sport suspension at a Toyota dealership.
- 02 premium, 04 UL, 05 ML, 2 06 MLs at a Lexus dealership.
Goals are:
- Determine if the sport suspension is a gotta-have
- Determine if the CL upgrades in the UL are gotta-haves
- Determine if flint mica is the right color
- Determine if Nav and MLev are gotta-haves.
I will report back tomorrow night.
- 04 ML w/ sport suspension at a Toyota dealership.
- 02 premium, 04 UL, 05 ML, 2 06 MLs at a Lexus dealership.
Goals are:
- Determine if the sport suspension is a gotta-have
- Determine if the CL upgrades in the UL are gotta-haves
- Determine if flint mica is the right color
- Determine if Nav and MLev are gotta-haves.
I will report back tomorrow night.
11-11-09, 07:16 AM
#7
The Lexus Nav unit is the MOST celebrated piece of technology in the LS. Everyone who has every used it, raves about the ease of use, functionality, and reliability.
Slapping on another electronic gizmo to your windshield is tacky (IMO), and gets in the way of a safe view of the road.
If you like the clean lines of an uncluttered dash, go with Lexus factory Nav. Once an expensive option when the car was new, the additional cost of getting a car with Nav is minimal.
Slapping on another electronic gizmo to your windshield is tacky (IMO), and gets in the way of a safe view of the road.
If you like the clean lines of an uncluttered dash, go with Lexus factory Nav. Once an expensive option when the car was new, the additional cost of getting a car with Nav is minimal.
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11-11-09, 08:05 AM
#9
Pole Position
I wouldn't shortchange the Sport suspension cause it does make a difference in handling and ride. To me, the regular suspension and even the air suspension was too floaty for my tastes. If that's what you like in a car then go for the standard suspension but if you like to drive the car hard occasionally and not have the lean when going around the corners, get the optional Sport.
Have to agree with others that going the non nav route would be a mistake on this luxury car. The system works fine enough and getting the Mark Levinson stereo is worth it alone.
Have to agree with others that going the non nav route would be a mistake on this luxury car. The system works fine enough and getting the Mark Levinson stereo is worth it alone.
11-11-09, 10:18 AM
#11
I have a Nuvi 885 with all the bells and whistle (bluetooth, voice command, lane change, etc.) and I love the thing because it's so great, but given the choice, I would take an in-dash NAV. Portables are for if you have no choice but to get it (i.e. the model does not offer it, or the car is like pre 2000).
The LS430's NAV is not great, but it's not bad either. I would say it's a 7 out of 10 for me in terms of what it's suppose to be for and how accurate it is. Things like 3-D view, street name, etc. are just "extra" to me, not a necessary item.
The LS430's NAV is not great, but it's not bad either. I would say it's a 7 out of 10 for me in terms of what it's suppose to be for and how accurate it is. Things like 3-D view, street name, etc. are just "extra" to me, not a necessary item.
11-11-09, 02:58 PM
#12
Moderator
Someday cars will come with plug and play easily replaceable and upgradable GPS Nav/computer systems. These units will not be proprietary to the Car brand and will be easily replaceable and have standard interface ports and standardized and modularized microcode and hardware modules so that software and hardware upgrades are easy to download and install. When that happens I will buy a car with an inbuilt NAV. Until then I pass. Just imagine how obsolete looking the 2004 Lexus Nav is going to look in 2015 (if its still functioning).
However all that said, if you change cars every 3-5 years, none of that matters, and I'd get an inbuilt NAV equiped LS also.
However all that said, if you change cars every 3-5 years, none of that matters, and I'd get an inbuilt NAV equiped LS also.
11-11-09, 04:51 PM
#13
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Wow, this thread has been busy while I was shopping (and raking leaves). I visited two dealerships, Sunshine Toyota in Battle Creek, MI (sport suspension car),
http://www.sunshinetoyota.com/Used_T...rshall_MI.html
and Harvey Lexus in Grand Rapids (4 LS430s currently in stock).
http://www.harveylexusgrandrapids.co...dVehicleSearch
Results of goals of this shopping trip:
- Sport suspension? Definitely not a gotta-have. Probably not what I'm looking for. I arrived at the dealership to drive the car with sport suspension at 9:00 and it was in the low 30s. The car had Z-rated Michelin Pilot Sport tires on it. They were hard as rocks and the car drove harshly. More appropriate tires would have definitely helped. Aside from the tires, I thought the tight steering rack and taut suspension felt out of place in the car. Then again, more appropriate tires could have helped those characteristics, too. At Harvey, I took a long test drive in a ML with 18" wheels and much preferred the ride.
- CL goodies? Nice, but not a gotta have. I really liked the upgraded leather, additional leather trim, and suede headliner. The door closers, laminated side glass, laser cruise, and headlight washers don't add much value for me. Mark O'Neil, the very knowledgeable sales rep at Harvey, said he had never seen a problem with the door closers, but had seen problems with the laminated side glass. The CL remains on my list of possibilities.
- Flint Mica? Excellent color - 1st choice. Mercury remains my second choice, but is more distant. Harvey had a black cherry in for service and that color has moved into #3, maybe #2. Other colors have been essentially eliminated. As for interior colors, black is my first choice for flint mica and mercury, cashmere for black cherry.
- Nav & MLev? Definitely. Mark said he had not seen problems with the nav screens. He saw one car that had a discolored screen that was only apparent when the power was off. Harvey had a car with the premium package that I sat in for a while. The center stack looked like it had been transplanted from a Toyota.
Other things I learned:
- Dealers can source their used cars from Lexus (Toyota) financial as leases are returned around the country. They can search for a particular car and location of the country.
- The dealer cost for the CPO warranty is $995. This is about the same cost as Cadillac's CPO warranty, but the Lexus program is superior in that it covers 3 years from date of CPO purchase, regardless of the original in-service date of the car. The Cadillac CPO warranty expires after 6 years of the original in-service date, regardless of when you bought the CPO car. Both programs are 100K miles. Of course, in addition to the CPO warranty cost, vehicle reconditioning, tires, brakes, etc. are also added to the price.
Overall, the LS430 pulled further ahead of the DTS Performance. The target car in the winter-spring timeframe will be:
- 05 or 06 ML or CL
- 25-35K miles
- Flint mica (or mercury or black black cherry)
- Black, ash, or cashmere interior
- 17" or 18" wheels. (I will have both sizes: summer tires on 18" wheels and winter tires on 17" wheels.)
OK, winter weather can arrive now that I'm done with these test drives. BTW, I drove M-37 between Battle Creek and Grand Rapids. It was a beautiful day to drive a hilly 2-lane. Too bad I didn't already have a LS430...
http://www.sunshinetoyota.com/Used_T...rshall_MI.html
and Harvey Lexus in Grand Rapids (4 LS430s currently in stock).
http://www.harveylexusgrandrapids.co...dVehicleSearch
Results of goals of this shopping trip:
- Sport suspension? Definitely not a gotta-have. Probably not what I'm looking for. I arrived at the dealership to drive the car with sport suspension at 9:00 and it was in the low 30s. The car had Z-rated Michelin Pilot Sport tires on it. They were hard as rocks and the car drove harshly. More appropriate tires would have definitely helped. Aside from the tires, I thought the tight steering rack and taut suspension felt out of place in the car. Then again, more appropriate tires could have helped those characteristics, too. At Harvey, I took a long test drive in a ML with 18" wheels and much preferred the ride.
- CL goodies? Nice, but not a gotta have. I really liked the upgraded leather, additional leather trim, and suede headliner. The door closers, laminated side glass, laser cruise, and headlight washers don't add much value for me. Mark O'Neil, the very knowledgeable sales rep at Harvey, said he had never seen a problem with the door closers, but had seen problems with the laminated side glass. The CL remains on my list of possibilities.
- Flint Mica? Excellent color - 1st choice. Mercury remains my second choice, but is more distant. Harvey had a black cherry in for service and that color has moved into #3, maybe #2. Other colors have been essentially eliminated. As for interior colors, black is my first choice for flint mica and mercury, cashmere for black cherry.
- Nav & MLev? Definitely. Mark said he had not seen problems with the nav screens. He saw one car that had a discolored screen that was only apparent when the power was off. Harvey had a car with the premium package that I sat in for a while. The center stack looked like it had been transplanted from a Toyota.
Other things I learned:
- Dealers can source their used cars from Lexus (Toyota) financial as leases are returned around the country. They can search for a particular car and location of the country.
- The dealer cost for the CPO warranty is $995. This is about the same cost as Cadillac's CPO warranty, but the Lexus program is superior in that it covers 3 years from date of CPO purchase, regardless of the original in-service date of the car. The Cadillac CPO warranty expires after 6 years of the original in-service date, regardless of when you bought the CPO car. Both programs are 100K miles. Of course, in addition to the CPO warranty cost, vehicle reconditioning, tires, brakes, etc. are also added to the price.
Overall, the LS430 pulled further ahead of the DTS Performance. The target car in the winter-spring timeframe will be:
- 05 or 06 ML or CL
- 25-35K miles
- Flint mica (or mercury or black black cherry)
- Black, ash, or cashmere interior
- 17" or 18" wheels. (I will have both sizes: summer tires on 18" wheels and winter tires on 17" wheels.)
OK, winter weather can arrive now that I'm done with these test drives. BTW, I drove M-37 between Battle Creek and Grand Rapids. It was a beautiful day to drive a hilly 2-lane. Too bad I didn't already have a LS430...
11-11-09, 05:35 PM
#14
Excellent that you thought it was worth it to have the NAV. As for the comments that it will looked dated by 2015, yeah, any car that is 10 years of age is going to look "dated" just because of the change in materials, design, and technology. My first NAV was a Garmin Streetpilot 2320, which was a plug in, sit on bean bag, unit. I had that unit about 5 years ago I would say and compared to today's portable, it would be considered junk.
Another reason for not wanting a portable if an in-dash is available is running the wires from the outlet to the unit. Yeah sure, there are rechargeable units, but you still need to have it charging once in a while right? I just don't like wires, base units, suction cups and the like sticking, hanging, dangling all over the car. Plus, the additional hassel of having to remove it once you leave the car, or risk possibly getting your window busted by some petty thief.
Anyway, your choice of :
- 05 or 06 ML or CL
- 25-35K miles
- Flint mica (or mercury or black black cherry)
- Black, ash, or cashmere interior
- 17" or 18" wheels. (I will have both sizes: summer tires on 18" wheels and winter tires on 17" wheels.)
Is an excellent choice you won't regret.
Another reason for not wanting a portable if an in-dash is available is running the wires from the outlet to the unit. Yeah sure, there are rechargeable units, but you still need to have it charging once in a while right? I just don't like wires, base units, suction cups and the like sticking, hanging, dangling all over the car. Plus, the additional hassel of having to remove it once you leave the car, or risk possibly getting your window busted by some petty thief.
Anyway, your choice of :
- 05 or 06 ML or CL
- 25-35K miles
- Flint mica (or mercury or black black cherry)
- Black, ash, or cashmere interior
- 17" or 18" wheels. (I will have both sizes: summer tires on 18" wheels and winter tires on 17" wheels.)
Is an excellent choice you won't regret.