Allow me to vent.
12-14-09, 05:20 PM
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Allow me to vent.
All,
I need to vent, because I am so @#$ off.
I go to my dealer, Nalley Lexus of Roswell Ga. for an oil change. As it takes about an hour, I walk the dealership and see that they have a notice for LS 430 owners that they REALLY need our/my car because they are in high demand and they are giving extra $$ for trade values. My 2004 has 60,000 miles, is in perfect shape, clean Carfax, no dents, no curbed wheels, etc., and is in the pearl white color (very popular). The only problem is that it has a grey interior, and I would prefer a tan interior. Well guess what, they have the same year, same equipment, same everything; except for two things. A tan interior and it has 7,000 miles less than mine.
I find a salesman, mention the notice about they needing my car badly as they are soooo popular, and I really wanted a tan interior. As we test trive the car, and upon closer inspection, it has three things wrong with it.
1) A cracked windshield, about a 1/2" crack.
2) A dent and scratch in the trunk about 4" long, near the "L" badge.
3) A door ding in the driver's door.
I point these out, and he assures me that they would be fixed before I took the car, so we went in to negotiate.
They went in the service bay where my car was to value/inspect it, while it was getting it's oil changed, and after about 10 minutes, the salesman comes back with the offer.
$16,000.00 for my car, $25,000.00 for theirs. Remember, the only thing really difference between the two is 7000 miles. Plus their car is damaged, and mine is not. I said "you must be mental!", my car, according to Kelly BB is in the neighborhood of $21,000.00, and so is theirs. He said yeah, but our car is a "Certified Pre-Owned" car, so it's worth much more. I asked, how can that be with a cracked windshield and the body damage??? And are you really saying there is a $9000.00 difference between these two cars?? He said we would go again and speak to his manager. He came back and lowered the price by $1500.00. I was soo angry! I went back to the service dept. paid my bill and drove home.
I then looked on the web, and according to the Lexus site, a "Certified Pre-Owned" car is supposed to have undergone a complete rehab, and inspections to qualify. So my question to you all is:
Is a "Certified Pre-Owned" Lexus supposed to have a cracked windshield, dented and scratched trunk, and a door ding in the door, before it is put out for sale, or as I think, this dealer is being dishonest? This is beside the dishonest crap about they badly needing my LS430 and are willing to give a higher trade in value than Blackbook. $16,000.00? I think not.
What say you all?? And thanks for letting me vent.
David
I need to vent, because I am so @#$ off.
I go to my dealer, Nalley Lexus of Roswell Ga. for an oil change. As it takes about an hour, I walk the dealership and see that they have a notice for LS 430 owners that they REALLY need our/my car because they are in high demand and they are giving extra $$ for trade values. My 2004 has 60,000 miles, is in perfect shape, clean Carfax, no dents, no curbed wheels, etc., and is in the pearl white color (very popular). The only problem is that it has a grey interior, and I would prefer a tan interior. Well guess what, they have the same year, same equipment, same everything; except for two things. A tan interior and it has 7,000 miles less than mine.
I find a salesman, mention the notice about they needing my car badly as they are soooo popular, and I really wanted a tan interior. As we test trive the car, and upon closer inspection, it has three things wrong with it.
1) A cracked windshield, about a 1/2" crack.
2) A dent and scratch in the trunk about 4" long, near the "L" badge.
3) A door ding in the driver's door.
I point these out, and he assures me that they would be fixed before I took the car, so we went in to negotiate.
They went in the service bay where my car was to value/inspect it, while it was getting it's oil changed, and after about 10 minutes, the salesman comes back with the offer.
$16,000.00 for my car, $25,000.00 for theirs. Remember, the only thing really difference between the two is 7000 miles. Plus their car is damaged, and mine is not. I said "you must be mental!", my car, according to Kelly BB is in the neighborhood of $21,000.00, and so is theirs. He said yeah, but our car is a "Certified Pre-Owned" car, so it's worth much more. I asked, how can that be with a cracked windshield and the body damage??? And are you really saying there is a $9000.00 difference between these two cars?? He said we would go again and speak to his manager. He came back and lowered the price by $1500.00. I was soo angry! I went back to the service dept. paid my bill and drove home.
I then looked on the web, and according to the Lexus site, a "Certified Pre-Owned" car is supposed to have undergone a complete rehab, and inspections to qualify. So my question to you all is:
Is a "Certified Pre-Owned" Lexus supposed to have a cracked windshield, dented and scratched trunk, and a door ding in the door, before it is put out for sale, or as I think, this dealer is being dishonest? This is beside the dishonest crap about they badly needing my LS430 and are willing to give a higher trade in value than Blackbook. $16,000.00? I think not.
What say you all?? And thanks for letting me vent.
David
12-14-09, 05:55 PM
#2
David,
Sorry to hear about your experience. I take my car to Lexus Galleria (when I need to take it to the dealer) due to multiple angry experiences with Roswell. Keep in mind I need to drive past Nalley Roswell to get to Nalley Galleria.
Greg
Sorry to hear about your experience. I take my car to Lexus Galleria (when I need to take it to the dealer) due to multiple angry experiences with Roswell. Keep in mind I need to drive past Nalley Roswell to get to Nalley Galleria.
Greg
12-14-09, 07:59 PM
#3
The letters and offers you receive in the mail in regards to your vehicle as a marketing ploy to get you into the dealership in hopes you would trade in your car for a new Lexus (or whatever type of dealer it is.)
In any case, do not be offended, as the dealership is there to make money. So many people are wanting to get out of what they currently drive, and into a new car they pay little attention to what it takes.
In regards to the Lexus CPO programs, I've seen this practice many times where dealers falsify the CPO certificate which clearly forbid the conditions you have mentioned above. I think Lexus should really come hard down in order to preserve the creditability of the program.
In any case, do not be offended, as the dealership is there to make money. So many people are wanting to get out of what they currently drive, and into a new car they pay little attention to what it takes.
In regards to the Lexus CPO programs, I've seen this practice many times where dealers falsify the CPO certificate which clearly forbid the conditions you have mentioned above. I think Lexus should really come hard down in order to preserve the creditability of the program.
12-14-09, 08:09 PM
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The letters and offers you receive in the mail in regards to your vehicle as a marketing ploy to get you into the dealership in hopes you would trade in your car for a new Lexus (or whatever type of dealer it is.)
In any case, do not be offended, as the dealership is there to make money. So many people are wanting to get out of what they currently drive, and into a new car they pay little attention to what it takes.
In regards to the Lexus CPO programs, I've seen this practice many times where dealers falsify the CPO certificate which clearly forbid the conditions you have mentioned above. I think Lexus should really come hard down in order to preserve the creditability of the program.
In any case, do not be offended, as the dealership is there to make money. So many people are wanting to get out of what they currently drive, and into a new car they pay little attention to what it takes.
In regards to the Lexus CPO programs, I've seen this practice many times where dealers falsify the CPO certificate which clearly forbid the conditions you have mentioned above. I think Lexus should really come hard down in order to preserve the creditability of the program.
12-14-09, 09:01 PM
#5
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Sometimes dealer will wait to fix the car up completely until they have a committed buyer. Also the dealer is likely hoping to get a buyer who might not notice or care about some minor stuff, believe it or not there are buyers out there too stupid or not detail oriented enough to notice the small details when buying a used car. So they let the small stuff (especially expensive to fix small stuff) that may go unnoticed go unrepaired and repair only if a buyer notices. Unethical? - no - its just business. In terms of your car's value - best thing to do the work yourself and prep your car, advertise it, take the risk of selling it privately to get top dollar. Then go in to the dealer, but only after you spend time searching and finding a great replacement car, and be an all cash buyer and negotiate hard for the car you want. That's the way to save money but it takes a lot of work, and when you are doing the work, taking the risk and making the private sale, then you have earned the right to maximize your money and spend less to get a great used car. But if you expect all the work done for you by the dealer - you just go into dealer, find the virtually exact replacement car that you want and trade your car for the replacement with no hassle, no work, no risk - all in an hour's time and you expect not to pay a huge premium for this convenience, then you don't understand business very well. The $ delta between your car and the replacement is not just value difference but also the $ premium charged for the dealers risk, transaction, holding, and selling costs which can be considerable. The CPO option is worth about 2500 by the way.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 12-14-09 at 09:09 PM.
12-15-09, 04:52 AM
#6
Thanks in advance.
Stan
12-15-09, 06:48 AM
#7
The break-even point on a CPO vehicle is somewhere around $5K after you figure the $2-2.5k to certify (dealer pays Lexus financial for the warranty), new tires, vehicle checkout, detailing, advertising, etc. Add at least $1K in profit plus minimum sales commission, and this is assuming the vehicle doesn't need reconditioning other than a full detail. If it needs like a 30K service, etc., costs will be higher. At my dealer, the sales dept pays the consumer price minus 20% for service. But the CPO premium is factored into the retail price (should cost like $2K more than a non-CPO, which would be a reconditioned vehicle at close to the blue-book price). So given that, the dealer is assuming it can sell your trade-in at $23K off the lot (probably advertise it at $26K in case someone is willing to pay full price). If it doesn't, it'll sell it at auction. They will not pay less than the auction price plus their expenses to avoid losing money.
My dealer always puts on a new set of bridgestone tires, has any dings in the doors removed, and has the 30K service done if near 30K, but I've seen other lexus dealers that will sell vehicles that have been involved in accidents (reported on CarFax) as certified vehicles and ask for the same price as one that hasn't been involved in an accident!! IMHO, there's no way you'll get a trade-in for a nearly identical vehicle at almost the same price from a dealer. You'd be better off locating one separately, buying that, then selling yours PP. I only traded one vehicle in lately because my wife didn't want me spending the time/effort to recondition it and didn't want strangers coming to our house to see it.
With all due respect, there's no way any lexus dealer should be selling a certified vehicle w/ a crack in the windshield and dent in the side. That is beyond normal wear & tear and should be sold non-CPO for the blue-book "fair" condition price at best. When I shopped for my CPO, my dealer had three (a ML, a CL, a UL, all white). The ML was abused, CL had lots of rock chip in the bumper from So. CA freeway driving. It looked like someone used spray paint (running paint) to patch it up; dealer wouldn't pay to respray it or to remove the tacky gangster tint, so that was a deal breaker. You did the right thing by leaving.
My dealer always puts on a new set of bridgestone tires, has any dings in the doors removed, and has the 30K service done if near 30K, but I've seen other lexus dealers that will sell vehicles that have been involved in accidents (reported on CarFax) as certified vehicles and ask for the same price as one that hasn't been involved in an accident!! IMHO, there's no way you'll get a trade-in for a nearly identical vehicle at almost the same price from a dealer. You'd be better off locating one separately, buying that, then selling yours PP. I only traded one vehicle in lately because my wife didn't want me spending the time/effort to recondition it and didn't want strangers coming to our house to see it.
With all due respect, there's no way any lexus dealer should be selling a certified vehicle w/ a crack in the windshield and dent in the side. That is beyond normal wear & tear and should be sold non-CPO for the blue-book "fair" condition price at best. When I shopped for my CPO, my dealer had three (a ML, a CL, a UL, all white). The ML was abused, CL had lots of rock chip in the bumper from So. CA freeway driving. It looked like someone used spray paint (running paint) to patch it up; dealer wouldn't pay to respray it or to remove the tacky gangster tint, so that was a deal breaker. You did the right thing by leaving.
Last edited by V8_Fan; 12-15-09 at 06:53 AM.
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12-15-09, 06:59 AM
#8
Moderator
I did not mean to sound pro-dealer with my response. Just wanted to highlight the real costs of buying and trading in cars with dealers - its a very expensive way to trade cars. In terms of the defects on that particular car its also possible the dealer did not notice or had not scheduled the repair yet. Particularly the ding and scratch guys usually only are at a specific dealer one day a week, sometimes only a couple of hours a week as most of these repair guys are third party mobile business and go to 12-15 dealers a week doing ding and scratch removal work.
12-15-09, 07:36 AM
#9
i get offers in the mail that they REALLY need my car all the time... it's simply an invitation to lowball you when you walk in the door...
no need to get offended... it's just standard slippery auto marketing....
no need to get offended... it's just standard slippery auto marketing....
12-15-09, 11:17 AM
#10
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Just out of curiosity, what are/were your issues with Nalley Roswell service? I just bought a 2010 LS 460 Sport from them and am trying to decide where to bring the car when it needs service. Nalley Galleria is actually more convenient for me from work and I was leaning that way but would appreciate your input on Roswell.
Thanks in advance.
Stan
Thanks in advance.
Stan
12-15-09, 11:24 AM
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I am offended! This is not a Chevy dealer, this is Lexus. They wasted my time, insulted me with their offer, and said a car with a cracked windshield, dented trunk, door ding, is a CPO car, and worth $9000.00 more than mine, even though: same year, same equipment, but 7000 less miles. I called Lexus N. America to complain.
12-15-09, 12:13 PM
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good luck man, ^ ^ ^.. i had a similar thing happen last year trying to trade in a gs on an ls. i have since had a couple other bad or shystee type experiences with more than 1 lex dealership in my area. i have come to the conclusion that although the vehicles themselves may be superior, their salesmen/ dealerships in the states are not.
i went to a lexus dealership in japan back in Jan of this year, told them that I was just on vacation, and received the highest level of service I had ever had at a dealership in my whole life. they were just off the charts courteous. how is it that american lex dealerships act more like some crappy chinsy american brand backyard used car dealership in comparison. it just doesn't make any sense to me. if your supposed to be selling a very expensive high end (somewhat) vehicle (or brand rather) then show it some proper respect and the customers. its just the whole business practice lately that has gone down the crapper. cpo also seems like a bunch of bs from my past experiences (similar to yours on an 05 UL last year as well). i felt like the sales man was trying to **** on me, and wanted me to accept it as a blessing.
i went to a lexus dealership in japan back in Jan of this year, told them that I was just on vacation, and received the highest level of service I had ever had at a dealership in my whole life. they were just off the charts courteous. how is it that american lex dealerships act more like some crappy chinsy american brand backyard used car dealership in comparison. it just doesn't make any sense to me. if your supposed to be selling a very expensive high end (somewhat) vehicle (or brand rather) then show it some proper respect and the customers. its just the whole business practice lately that has gone down the crapper. cpo also seems like a bunch of bs from my past experiences (similar to yours on an 05 UL last year as well). i felt like the sales man was trying to **** on me, and wanted me to accept it as a blessing.
12-15-09, 02:37 PM
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good luck man, ^ ^ ^.. i had a similar thing happen last year trying to trade in a gs on an ls. i have since had a couple other bad or shystee type experiences with more than 1 lex dealership in my area. i have come to the conclusion that although the vehicles themselves may be superior, their salesmen/ dealerships in the states are not.
i went to a lexus dealership in japan back in Jan of this year, told them that I was just on vacation, and received the highest level of service I had ever had at a dealership in my whole life. they were just off the charts courteous. how is it that american lex dealerships act more like some crappy chinsy american brand backyard used car dealership in comparison. it just doesn't make any sense to me. if your supposed to be selling a very expensive high end (somewhat) vehicle (or brand rather) then show it some proper respect and the customers. its just the whole business practice lately that has gone down the crapper. cpo also seems like a bunch of bs from my past experiences (similar to yours on an 05 UL last year as well). i felt like the sales man was trying to **** on me, and wanted me to accept it as a blessing.
i went to a lexus dealership in japan back in Jan of this year, told them that I was just on vacation, and received the highest level of service I had ever had at a dealership in my whole life. they were just off the charts courteous. how is it that american lex dealerships act more like some crappy chinsy american brand backyard used car dealership in comparison. it just doesn't make any sense to me. if your supposed to be selling a very expensive high end (somewhat) vehicle (or brand rather) then show it some proper respect and the customers. its just the whole business practice lately that has gone down the crapper. cpo also seems like a bunch of bs from my past experiences (similar to yours on an 05 UL last year as well). i felt like the sales man was trying to **** on me, and wanted me to accept it as a blessing.
Does not surprise me, I love the Japanese culture. As for American Lexus dealerships, with the economy in the toilet, and NOBODY buying anything, I would assume they would chase me out in the parking lot to sell me a car. When I bought my first and last Corvette (turned out to be a piece of junk), they let me take it home overnight just to test drive it and make sure I really liked it. Yes the dealership was nothing like a Lexus dealership with Starbucks coffee, free Lexus loaners, and a putting green, but I give the Chevy dealership credit for offering great customer service, unlike ROSWELL GEORGIA NALLEY LEXUS. (just so you don't miss the name and city of the dealership I am referring to).
12-15-09, 02:55 PM
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Lexus dealers are the worse..... i wont even try to take my car to the dealership becuase im so fearful that they would mess something up.... is funny how the one place you would think you would give you what you pay will ended up costing you more... I hate dealerships!!!!!! And yes they are all dishonest... I always said... is ok and normal to work and get paid to get fed for a day but a dealers try to F you so they eat for a month.... no bueno....
12-15-09, 03:03 PM
#15
I'm just curious.... be honest.... What were you hoping for? What could they have offered that would have made you trade-in your car for the other car, right then and there?
Seriously... Just how much were you willing to pay to change the interior color?