AlexusAnja

What I like about a car is that it's somewhat unique either within the particular make, or even better, the industry. I don't like the Audi way of small, medium, large vehicle where one looks like the other and it's just sized differently. I continue to like the 430 over the 460 because nothing in the Lexus lineup then (and even now) looked like the 430. It did not look like an ES, did not look like a GS, did not look like an IS. The currently 460 looks to be a bloated ES and very forgettable except to those that know.

The only cars the 430 have been mistaken for are the S class (early-mid '90s generation) or the Ford 500 (ugh)...

Me, I just like it because it's an LS...

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

I'm also still amazed at how the 430 has been able to hold its looks after almost 10years. Some people even ask me if my car is an 07 or 08. I tell them its an 05 and they're like WHAT! While clearly taking cues from the earlier s-classes, the 430 did things slightly different and it has really paid off. Now, the 460 may look like the ES and GS, it still has a alluring presence thats unmistakeable in my opinion. The 1-3LS's keep the same face kinda to them but the 460 broke that tradition slightly. Although i plan to get a 460L when its time, im still second guessing myself on that move because of how i feel about the my 430. I really hope Lexus will not drop the ball on the next LS because the comp is really getting tougher now. The new 7 series is as sweet as ever, a new S-class is on its way and seem to really never drop the ball ever, the XJ is just a marvelous piece of automobile art, now the Equus is joining line up with real potential. If Lexus screw this up, it will have a hard time catching back up imo. The LS over the years have been near perfect that people are just looking for an excuse to not buy it or bash it but they cant. My fingers are crossed.

BNR34

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Benz dropped the ball from 2000-2006, they built some of the worse car ever built. Their resale value reflect that.

A 2002 mint low mileage V12 S600 that had a MSRP of $120k worth about $20k today!

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

poopsnack

great thread. I think I agree with almost everything that's been written in here, which is hardly ever the case.

04-06 LS430 FTW.

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

Very true. But given the length of good history the S-class has, those years of BS quality was still accompanied by great sales numbers and good performance ratings which held the car in high regard. But i do agree with you on those years were POS's.

SteveM

100% agreed with many above.

Buying used is great to guage what you're truly getting for a largely reduced cost. A pleasant depreciation in price while the Toyota reliability/quality remains = excellent value. Used ES300 was reliable, used LS430 is an absolute pleasure and the 07-08 460 should be no different, although as mentioned above, I agree the styling isn't as attractive as the 430. Maybe the huge engine can offset that?

I guess waiting for the 460's price point to improve in the meantime will allow me to enjoy my 430 to the fullest. I hope the "next LS" is something that I feel more passionate about than the current one. Something about the 430 just feels more "flagship" and "elegant" than the 460 IMO.

Ford 500....

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

A huge amount of MB's owners owns MB solely because of the image and prestige provided by the 3 points star badge. They either don't care or have no clue on how good the actual product is. That is why MB continue to have great sales numbers even when their quality dropped to a very low level.

This is why I closely monitored the quality of the LS460, which so far seems to be decreasing compare to the 430. I don't want to be like those blind MB owners, buying something solely based on the brand. Hyundai is coming up very strong, the Equus is looking very nice with excellent review.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I love my LS430 more and more everyday, because of all the recalls on the LS460/LS600 lately.

1st was that VGRS steering recall last month:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/19/r...globally-over/

Today is faulty valve springs.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/01/b...gines-worldwi/

You know even after the dealer fixes all that, the car won't be the same again, the dealer can't build it to the same standard as the factory in Japan.

I am keeping my LS430 for a VERY long time, thank you very much.

This is exactly why like a few people have mentioned, buying used car is such a beautiful way to buy a car, you can see how the car turns out before you buy one.

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

Now that puts a damper on things for me when i think about owning a 460. Guess ill try a search for a non affected one. The next LS better blow the roof off the ***** when it comes out.

elite7

That is what i thought....Until i got my 2008 LS460 .

The LS430 is good but the LS460 just destroys it in every aspect. Im keeping my 2008 LS460 and getting rid of my 2005 LS430.

Thats what i initially thought as well. However i parked my Mercury Metallic 2008 LS460 next to a Mercury Metallic 2008 ES350 and they look extremely different in terms of all angles. The ES350 looks tiny in comparison.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

It would be fun to hear why you think that.

The bottom line is, everything is just personal perferences, there are no right or wrong, good or bad

To me, there are only 3 features off the LS460/600 that I wish my LS430 has: Heated steering wheel, powered side curtain and power operated trunk lid. Other then that, I prefer my LS430 in all other aspects. I have driven and played with all versions of LS460 and LS600 many times.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

If you compare them side by side, sure they are very different. But if you see them on the road, from a distance, they look extremely similar. You can't tell size differences from a distance. And I am shockingly good at telling cars apart

elite7

Not in my opinion. I own both and there are tons of distinct differences.


First, I sold my 1996 LS400 to my daughter so i have experienced each LS from the LS400, the LS430, all the way to the LS460. Just disclosing i am quite experienced in terms of the various LS models .

Everything's better about the LS460.

First off the Mark Levinson in the LS460 obliterates the Mark Levinson in my LS430. Its much more powerful, more 3d/surround, has more speakers, etc. You can set it to stereo as well. Even the simple navigation screen is greatly improved. Its sharper and it doesnt have that "I agree" button that you have to press everytime you start the car. The warning pops up but goes away after maybe 3 seconds without touching "I agree". When backing up the backup camera i quite a bit sharper.

The car handles much better, with much less body roll/lean. Its pretty amazing. When i press on the LS430's hood the car bounces. I cant get the LS460's suspension to bounce when pressing down on the hood. The suspension is much tighter. However at the same time the car is much smoother and quieter. Its better insulated from outside noise. The power is unbelievable too. Its a lot faster than the LS430 is. The brakes are amazing as well. It stops extremely fast from any speed.

Even the doors are much higher quality. Mine are soft close which i love. The doors are much heavier and swing open more widely. They don't make an annoying noise when closing. They give off a deep tone when closing not a rattling like the LS430's. I feel much safer in the LS460 as well.

The soft close doors are awesome. I prefer that over heated steering wheel or soft close trunk. The doors of the LS460 have quite a bit less plastic on them compared to the LS430's doors where half the door is plastic.

I was the same way when i was driving my 2005 LS430 as the main car i went to the dealer too. I played around with the LS460 and didn't think too much of it. I never test drove it until i went to go buy it.

After having the car for a month there is no comparison to the LS430. Its much better in every aspect.

I dont think you are going to find someone who own both the LS460 and LS430 who will tell you the LS430 is better. Its well worth the upgrade.

Look if it wasnt i would get rid of the 2008 LS460 and keep my 2005 LS430 if i was unhappy. However there is no point in me having the LS430 anymore when the LS460 is a much better vehicle in every way possible.

Again i disagree. The ES350 has more similarity to the Toyota Camry rather than the LS460.

































2010 LS460

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

elite7,

Good discussion! I will reply you when I get back later. The main thing I notice is you are comparing a basic modern luxury packaged LS430 (NAV/ML, plastic door panel, soft suspension and no soft close doors) to a highly optioned LS460 (soft close doors). Of course a highly optioned LS460 is much nicer then a modern luxury LS430.

The LS430 I have is the ultra luxury package, which is hugely upgraded from the modern luxury LS430. My door panel have just as much leather as a high end LS460, I got soft close doors.....etc.

Anyway, good discussion, sounds like you know a lot about LSs in general and not just some ignorant guy who think newer is better. You are worth my reply! I will reply to your every points when I get back for some friendly discussions

elite7

Btw noticed this quote:

This is not the case. The quality is greatly improved in all aspects on the LS460. On the way home bringing by my LS460 i immediately noticed there were less gaps in the interior, the leather is improved, and gauges even feel better. I read a quote in an article the Mark Levinson radio that you get in the LS460 would cost you $200,000 if you were to build a comparable unit for your home theater.


Ultra luxury on the LS430 is not a big difference compared to modern luxury for the driver of the vehicle.

The Modern Luxury Package ($4,980) bundles a Mark Levinson audio system, navigation system, reversing camera, Bluetooth communications technology, climate controlled front seats, heated rear seats, and Intuitive Parking Assist.

The Ultra Luxury Selection ($11,320) features all that plus Adaptive Variable Air Suspension, SmartAccess keyless entry and ignition, and a number of amenities for rear seat passengers, including: sunshades for the rear passenger doors, a rear-seat adjuster with memory, climate-controlled rear seats with a massage feature, and a rear air conditioner with optical deodorizer.

Modern luxury focuses on the driver only whereas the ultra luxury focuses on the driver and the rear passengers.

Both of our LS430's will drive, handle, and sound the same. Other than the soft close doors, height control switch right above the shifter, and air suspension these are the main differences which will make no difference to the driver:



Actually i'm truly comparing the same packages.

Look both my 2008 LS460 and 2005 LS430 have the exact same options with the 2008 LS460 having soft close doors and the heated steering wheel being the exceptions. Those options dont do anything to enhance the ride. They are just features for convenience.

Both have:

-Navigation
-Non-Air Suspension - Even both not having air suspension the LS460 is still much smoother and has less body roll. I have the air suspension in my LX470. I prefer non-air. Non-air is a lot less problematic. The air just has the height control which i never use anyhow. I made sure my LS460 didn't have the air suspension.
-18" Rims
-Mark Levinson Radio
-Keyless Entry
-Backup Camera
-Heated and Cooled Seats
-Soft Close Trunk

As you can see they are as close to each other as you can get in terms of options and yet the LS460 still is much better in all aspects.

You can get the LS460 more loaded up if you get the L version which gives you massaged seats in the rear, a video entertainment system in the rear, air suspension, seats that adjust in the rear, and a cool box in the back. However all these things i dont want and they dont anything for the driver. These are just for your rear passengers. You lose a seat in the back for these options which i don't like. The car also gets longer by a few inches which i do not care for.

Honestly i was the same way as you. I was lukewarm checking out the LS460 before i bought it. I am not trying to argue with you.

Just giving you my thoughts on what i notice in terms of owning both the LS430 and LS460 as well as the LS400.

The LS460 is amazing in all aspects. The 8-speed transmission is incredibly smooth. I am getting better gas mileage than with my LS430. At the same time i have 380 horsepower and 367 pound-feet of torque which you can really feel. These are not just paper numbers. The power is incredible. You can get in trouble really quick.

The suspension is much smoother than on the LS430. They engineered it to be smoother and at the same time have a lot less body roll. Its much tighter too. You just barely move the steering wheel and you are already in the other lane.

Also i love the looks of the LS460 a lot more than my LS430. Parking them next to each other the LS460 looks much better both in terms of exterior and interior . Fit and Finish without a doubt is clearly better on the LS460. Its much more refined. There are less gaps in between seams on the interior and the cabin is insulated much better from the outside noises. At a 70-80mph pace on the highway the LS460 has much less wind noise. The LS430 is quite a bit noisier going down the highway at a 70-80mph pace.

In terms of plastic on the doors i am referring to this compared to(BTW not my cars but the exterior colors are the same on each):