Jabberwock

Moto -
Very nice write up and analysis on used car market and trading process.

Also good point about the LS being produced in relatively large numbers and for 6 years. The result being it will very likely never be considered a rare car.

motohide

A black on black late model Ultra with Red Rose Wood are sort of far and few in between, but it still would never command a huge premium. Just as a 1981 Datsun 280ZX BLACK-GOLD special is rare, but still basically just another Z by now...
It's not exactly in the same league as a Ferrari California 250GT or an Abarth Zegato where it's eligible for entry in Mille Miglia.

TomLS

I am not surprised as I would be willing to pay more for an '06 than an '07. It seems that those of us with the second generation LS may have the 'last of the great ones', at least for the time being. I believe current stock may also reveal the demand. As of today Sewell (both locations) has 6 of the 2nd generation and 15 of the third for sale.

I have no doubt that Toyota/Lexus will wake up and again produce bullet proof cars that will be the top of their class........but it may take a while.

Thrilled to have an 05, ML!

Bocatrip

Sometimes, the really bullet proof cars only come by once!

V8_Fan

That's one reason why I bought my 05 UL. Also, I don't like the idea of the drive-by-wire steering on the 460. The 430 has a good old-fashioned rack & pinion along with an old-fashioned oversized vacuum booster.

motohide

Ls460/600 are still rack and pinion and traditional booster brakes, the booster ratio is electronally governed and hybrids have electric pumps for obvious reasons, but no different than LS430 mechanically. It's still very much a normal steering system...

The valve springs used are made by the same company as the LS430 but only that they anent had to recall any because the cam lobes aren't as loaded. LS460 engines are no less well made than LS430. LS430 has had much more issues at start and throughout it's cycle than the LS460... One just needs to check Toyota bulletins rather than Consumer Reports to verify that.

I have a LS430 and love my car. But I don't agree with some of your reasons for bashing the LS460/600 based on statements based on random facts that seem unsubstantiated. There are over 322 improvements on the F40 chassis over the CF30. Perhaps you can see maybe few of them might be something trivial and would depend more on preference.

By the way... A 2005 model LS is a third generation, not second, as previous few posts claim. The current LS is the fourth.

Jabberwock

All good points. In my opinion LS460s look horrible compared to a LS430. The LS460 looks like a bloated weird ES350 - (actually I consider the ES350 to be the better looking and proportioned car compared to the LS460). I know that's completely subjective.

But also the LS460 seems to have a much more serious recall than any I can remember on a LS430 (20 hrs of labor to replace LS460 valve springs?). In general I think the LS460 are overly complex and expensive ($13 K for a replacement Nav screen) compared to a typical LS430.

Clearly I do love my LS 430 inordinately, so I am biased as hell. So no need to reply "hey you're crazy and wrong"- I know : )

But honestly I wanted to like the 460. Just like I wanted to like the current latest version of the Acura RL - I had owned a 89 Legend and a 99RL but the 2006-current RL looks like crap and is overly complex and expensive for no good reason.

I am lucky enough to be able to afford a more expensive latest model car but it actually has to be worth it. In my opinion the current 07-10 LS 460 is not. Again others view and perspective may vary and they may love LS460s - no problem - I am not presenting absolute fact - I know 100% my opinion and perspective is very subjective and potentially flawed.

TomLS

Thanks motohide for the generation correction. What were the corresponding years for
each LS generation? Were there two generations within the LS400 years?
Thanks again!

AlexusAnja

Yes. the LS400 (known as Celsior in JDM originally) designation (because of engine displacement) went over 2 generations. The first generation LS debuted in 1989 as a 1990 model and ran for 6 years to 1994. Then the 1995 2nd generation LS400 ran for another 6 years (to 2000).

Our 3rd generation LS430 ran from 2001-2006 and now the current LS460 start in 2007 and will run it's 6-year cycle until 2012, when the 5th generation LS will debut.

Anyway, here's to a much better LS in 2012.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Insightful posts usermel and motohide

Much of my sentiment has been mentioned in this thread between the 430 and 460. I had hoped for a 460 but given the current state, the 430 is the alternative. Our goal is the 460 so we'll continue to wait and see.

AlexusAnja

Although not feeling the love for the LS460, if I had to in say 2016 to buy a used vehicle, I would not think twice to get say a 2011 or 2012 LS460L AWD. It's still one of the best made and thought out vehicles around and I'd take it over a used MB or BMW any day.

Of course, I hope my 430 lasts much longer than 2012, hopefully longer to carry me into the 6th generation LS, which I'm sure Lexus will try even more to make it as close to bullet proof as possible.

motohide

Yes, with each passing of new models, the preference will change, and some of the 5000+ components on such a complex car will always have certain pitfalls in design whether appearance or component failures. All LS though, from 89 LS400 ~ 2011 LS460, have exemplary record of reliability though compared to any competitor brand cars. Still, Mercedes and BMW, Maserati to Citroen, all have its share of fans. And all are happy to own them, as long as they knew what they were buying. So both our statements are fair enough.

Personally I'd love to own a LS460L, but like you said, I look for sensible value in things, and it has to fall to decent price range. I see 4 year old LS460 being no worse than a 2011, and for me, I tend to hack up a lot of things, and it just makes no sense in me paying $78K for a new one with warranty... Because I know as soon as I start to modify things, that warranty goes right out the window. LOL!

The reason being that I used to own a BMW 740iL, and I REALLY miss the huge rear seating area of the "Long Wheel Base" variant.

I kind of miss the BMW's much more tactile feel of the car, (an intrinsic value that isn't part of catalog specification. It's more a character tuned into the car by the manufacturer's test drivers, which BMW still has 10+ years on the Lexus staff. Probably because their only focus is to build a performance sedan, while Lexus has a mindset to try to be master of all trades, and fail at being stellar star choice in any single area.)

But that is a quest left for my self tuning the suspension on the track and on road, and that's the fun I'm currently having with my LS430. I'm trying different spring rates, shock valving, bushing rates, alignment, and other factors...I'm half way to making it feel like a BMW. Still long way to go. LOL.

Yes its easier to just buy a BMW 7 again, but that would leave me with no fun. I want to make a Lexus Toyota product feel that way and have it be my own.