Okay, I've confirmed that this car is not a UL model . I have a new question though. How much is the CPO warranty worth? Or put another way, if I wanted to purchase a warranty to get me to 100k miles (the car has about 40k now) how much would that cost me? Dealer is telling me the CPO warranty is worth about 3-4k on the price but that sounds high to me - looking for a gut check on how much the CPO premium should be valued at.

Andrew

 

Look around the country for the equivalent vehicle at a NON Lexus dealer (i.e. a Toyota dealer or third party dealer) and see what their listed price is. This should give you a rough idea of what the value of that CPO warranty is, or at least what THEY are valuing it at.

Thing is, a lot of aftermarket extended warranties are garbage so if the warranty is important to you, stick with the CPO. There is only one aftermarket extended warranty company I trust and that is the JM Group or "Jim Moran". JM runs Lexus and Toyota dealerships in the southeast, and Toyota awarded JM the warranty contract for Toyota CPOs (not sure if they also handle Lexus CPO claims) so its basically the same thing as a Toyota CPO warranty and won't disappear in 3 weeks.

 

It seems that the consensus is that CPO is pretty optional, especially if you get a great deal on a well-maintained car (set some $$ aside for potential repairs and you should still come out on top). However, I like CPO for peace of mind. It is much more likely that your car is a better example, otherwise it probably wouldn't pass for CPO. Like I said earlier, beware and do your research first because some CPO may look clean on car fax, but the Lexus service will indicate either an accident or a long long history of unscheduled dealer visits. I avoid both like the plague. You can definitely get them to come down around 26-27k. I emailed another dealer not too long ago about one of their cars and they dropped their asking of 32.5k down to 28.5k. However, they refused to go lower so I stopped working with them. Bottom line is you really should get away (after tax) of paying under 30k, preferably 25k.

 

Thanks for all the great feedback. The dealer with the CPO vehicle was asking about $32k - I asked him to come down on the price and give me his best offer - which dropped the asking price to about $29.5 - obviously still too high. The dealer claimed that the CPO was worth 3-4k which sounded quite high to me, but even if it is worth 3k, the asking price is till around $26k. Given that other folks on the board have purchased very comparable vehicles with CPO for $26k, I'm thinking I've still got to get him down quite a bit before it even becomes a fair deal never mind a great deal. I've mentally set the $26k watermark as the maximum price I would consider paying. I shared with the dealer a couple of local ads with substantially lower pricing including a 2003 LS430 with comparable miles asking $20k and a 2004 with comparable miles asking $22.9 . . . I've told the dealer I don't have a specific price in mind but that I'm looking for a fair deal and that his pricing is still way too high (at $29.5). The dealer says he'll call me back tomorrow and we'll see what happens with this . . . Ultimately will depend on how much they want to make a sale. If they won't come down, I'm prepared to walk and wait for another opportunity.

Thanks for the recommendation on JM Group - I may call them just to see what their pricing would be to warranty a used LS430. Worst case, I could always just buy the car from a 3rd party (non-Lexus) dealer and purchase a stand alone warranty . . .

Andrew

Andrew

 

Be patient with it. The current car I'm looking to buy has been on the dealer lot for almost 2 months now. I took advantage of that (seeing that they'll have to sell it back to the auction at a low price anyways) and went on about the economy and how hard it is to sell one of these things. The guy is giving me his "best" offer at 25.5k with CPO and 24.5k without, only 1k difference! When they give their best offer (esp online) it probably means they have a good amount more of wiggle room. I emailed a Jag dealer who had an 05, 66k miles, and he said that he would offer it to me for 21.5k and that they can only sell it back to the auction for ~20k. I am using this to push my offer of 23.5k. I think 24k would be a pretty good deal for your car (with CPO of course).

 

CarGuy is right, eventually they will bite... just be patient. One negative about JM's warranty is that you can ONLY buy it through an affiliated dealer (I guess this is how they keep their costs low and stay in business, by associating them with dealers that won't sell, or at least TRY not to sell problematic vehicles to begin with). So your best bet would be to look at Toyota dealers as they almost all work with JM for their customer's extended warranties they sell, in addition to JM handling the Toyota CPO.

 

Okay, got the dealer down to $28.5 and explained to him that I thought the car wasn't worth more than $25k. Response was okay, good luck finding one like this. I suggested that it's hard to sell cars in this market, that the current pricing was more in line with a used '08 MY and that he should review again with his business manager, that I could help them hit their targets for the month.

The bad part is that I really need to find a new vehicle quickly and, compared to buying a new car, I'm beginning to think maybe I should just bite the bullet, see if I can get another $1k to $1500 off the and just buy it. Thoughts?

Andrew

 

Make your best offer and let them know (in writing) via email that you stand ready to execute on the purchase at the offer price for the next 24 or 48 hours , after that time period you will pursue other LS available at other dealers.

Then its up to the dealer - you have given them firm offer and a time frame for purchase.

They are in biz to maximize profits - they will ONLY sell to you at X price if they cannot get a better price from someone else for the car soon.

Telling them what you think the car is worth or basically discussing any other stuff about the market, local economy, etc. is a waste of time and energy and more importantly it lets the dealer know you are desperate for that specific car. The more you talk, the less inclined they are to lower the price. Its critical that you understand the game you are in and play it to your advantage.


They are pros - they sell cars and negotiate prices every day for a living. They generally know exactly what they can get for a car. So just make your best offer, keep it simple and clear - make the offer and walk away - tell them they have 24 or 48 hr to respond - be polite and non-emotional, remember its a simple business transaction - if they can do the deal they will call you back. If they don't call you, its because they think another person will pay more than your offer in a pretty short time.

You may get a call back in a week or two when they decide they that your offer is the best they are gonna get or they need to make month end sales numbers, etc. At that point (if you have not already made an alternate purchase) you can decide to buy at offer price or ask them to sweeten the deal since you now have the upper hand.

 

Jabber is right, you must refrain from the giving them any lines about what you think the car is worth, that you can get another one for this price or that price etc. Just come on strong with your best and final offer and then walk away. Let THEM do the work and come to you when they are ready to play. If they don't within your specified time period, you go somewhere else.

This is again, why all I do is email my final offer from Autotrader or Cars.com or wherever I find the particular car I want and send offers to multiple dealers. The first one that bites is where I start my car search.

 

i have a 04 ML ls430 with 62k miles flint mica/black leather, 18inch sport rims with new tires, oil change just done, clean carfax im the 2nd owner. 21500$

 

Any Pic's?

 

You've got PM.

 

Definitely take a look at 99navette's car. He kindly offered it to me, unfortunately I need the car now and don't have time to go down to FL (a really long journey from MI lol) to take a look.

Good luck with your sale 99navette. Good luck with your search abs.

 

Okay, so I have now a few LS430's in play. One with the original dealer that is a 2005 CPO and one with a high volume 3rd party dealer which is a 2006 non CPO. Ironically, they both are coming in at about the same price although I think I can get the dealer with the 2006 down at least $1000. One big difference is that the 2006 is a non-NAV and appears to be more of a base model without some of the options installed on the 2005. So now I have a few more questions:

When I test drove and checked the 2005, the only odd thing I could find on the body was that at the top corner of both front doors, where they meet the back doors just below the roof, the chrome and rubber was sticking out (away from the rest of the body of the car) just a bit, perhaps 1/4 inch. This has been nagging at me somewhat the last few days and at a first I was thinking is normal but now I'm beginning to wonder about it - can anyone comment if this is a typical thing for these cars?

Next, what is the overall consensus on the ML with NAV? Is it worth getting those features or is it better to just go with some aftermarket equipment? The fact is that I have NAV on my mobile phone (with a 4.3" display) and in the past has worked well for me. The one thing I really would like is the ability to play music off a USB connected device (like I can in my Ford FLEX with Sync) and the ability to have a working and viable bluetooth option. I do have a couple of car audio amps and could quite easily buy a nice head unit which might support some of these features as well. Thoughts?

Last question: As I'm negotiating with these dealers, especially the CPO dealers, I realized that I might be able to get them to throw in some maintenance activities at no cost to me as part of the negotiation over price. They may view labor as a sunk cost . . . So, what service activities are typically conducted at around 40,000 miles? When do spark plugs, fuel filter, transmission fluid, differential fluid, coolant and brake fluid get changed on these vehicles? In the past, I have always done my own maintenance but it's really becoming a drag. Might be nice to have the dealer throw in some of this as part of the overall deal.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Andrew

 

Frankly, both my '02 car and an '01 CL we drove had the ML audio and I found it to not be worth the trouble. In fact, the base audio system is actually more pleasing to my ears in some ways than the ML. I have never been a fan of Toyota's early 2000s navigation software either. The Nav software in my 2006 IS250 was a WORLD of difference, and the screen was bigger and much higher res than that of the LS430. I also don't like the way the Toyota Nav ALWAYS reverts back to Navigation mode after any message or indicator comes up on the screen. These two factors led me to go with the Premium package 2004 car I found versus the 2001 Custom luxury (which was way overpriced to begin with).

*HOWEVER*, if you value the bluetooth connection, that is one area where the Nav and ML headunit will obviously be a serious advantage over the base headunit. Neither of these has a USB plugin for music. Both units however support some fantastic aftermarket add-ons from USA Spec or Vais Technologies that allow you to not only listen to, but FULLY CONTROL an iPod from your vehicle's steering wheel or radio controls AND view artist information on the Nav or LCD. It doesn't sound like you use an iPod, so you can still use these with a basic AUX input though you may lose the ability to control the music playback.

Here is the VaisTech unit that seems to be highly regarded here (I have not tried it as I find the tape adapter to be more than acceptable): http://cgi.ebay.com/VaisTech-Lexus-T...er_Accessories

I think you will find many of the OTHER luxuries and conveniences of the Modern and Custom Luxury packages to be your deciding factors for whether you really want the upgrades or not. For example... Laser cruise control and soft close doors are two very cool Custom Luxury add ons.

As for the 40k mile service, it appears to be a fairly basic one:
Replace engine oil and oil filter
Replace air conditioner filter
Rotate tires
Visually inspect brake pads/discs
Road test vehicle