Although a problem with the Nav can be devastatingly expensive, the unit itself has shown to be relatively reliable and is always a plus in a high end car. Although, even an introductory Garmin is more advanced than the factory Nav. I happen to like everything to be factory. I have found the Generation 2/3 factory Nav to be helpful and I'm glad I have it.

 

I don't disagree with having the built in NAV, just stating that the technology becomes obsolete much quicker than the rest of the car... Most of us on here are like kids in a candy store when it comes to our cars and we like the cool gadgets... Like Jabberwock states, I'd love to see a standard developed that could be applied across the industry that would provide a standard interface. Just a standard USB interface would probably suffice. This would certainly cut into the automakers profits though, and the cost of a factory GPS unit would plummet, so I don't know how likely it is. I'm sure the aftermarket companies like Garmin, Tom Tom and Magellan would love it.

One final word from me on the built in NAV: Moore's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

 

I find the NAV on the LS easy to use, but the calculation methods are "strange" if nothing else. I've gone on trips where I know the fastest route is the freeway I'm taking, but the 3 routes that it plots, neither is the freeway that I'm already on. I know it has to be either quickest or shortest because it's about one mile off the exit on the road I'm on and the freeway is straight.

Other than that, like the integrated look and the lowering of the sound when instruction come on.

 

I just got one with nav (modern lux) and spent only the trip home and an hour of tonight fiddling around with it. I must say, it is incredibly easy to use. I only needed to consult the manual for saving radio stations (just hold down the tab on the screen, no hard buttons). The graphics do look a bit outdated (pixelated by today's standards) but you will have to accept that all built in navs will. The layout is very logical and easy to use, enough buttons for easy access to functions, not enough to clutter up the dash.

The main reason that I got nav for the bluetooth admittedly. However, I am very happy I did get one with nav. Everything works quickly and a touchscreen is definitely cooler than just normal hard buttons IMO. Idk, either way you will enjoy the car.

 

Heh, you are probably right. Although the funny part about that is I thought the Nav stack reminded me too much of my 2002 (wanted to still have the feeling of it being a "new to me" car, even if I already had basically the identical vehicle in the past), and I also thought it reminded me too much of Navs in other Lexuses and Toyotas.

On a positive note for the Non-Nav vehicles, the non Nav center stack was updated with cool glowing white LED backlighting and an updated button layout for the 2004 and up models vs. the 2001-'03.

 

I have to be honest with you, I did not know you were considering a NJ car.

If it comes down to buying ANYTHING from ANY 3rd Party NJ dealer, versus buying from a Lexus dealer anywhere ELSE site unseen, I'd go with the Lexus dealer.

I'm not trying to put down NJ or anything... but the standards of automotive dealerships in that part of the country are SERIOUSLY lacking compared to almost anywhere else except South Florida and maybe (as I discovered this weekend), Atlanta. Also, the "stack 'em deep" philosophy of "500 lexuses" sitting on their lot raises concerns as well as I've seen how many of those Wal-Mart car lots operate.

I'd be curious if anyone on THIS board has ever been happy with a 3rd party dealer bought car in NY or NJ. Just for my own personal research.

Go with the Lexus dealer in your neck of the woods, or a Lexus dealer elsewhere site unseen, but please do yourself a favor and avoid any 3rd party dealer in NJ. Trust me on this one. This also gets you all the benefits of a CPO which is a lot easier than trying to add warranty coverage and make claims on aftermarket warranties.

 

This is absolutely, unequivocally 100 percent true. However, the price from almost any manufacturer for a replacement Navigation system is almost always astronomical. Even the unit for the LS430 lists at an astonishing $4000.00, and that's just the works up front!

Consider the real world price to buy one used if a replacement was ever necessary (highly unlikely unless the backlight went out or the screen was damaged) though and you'll see you can get the LS430 unit for as little as 5 to 700.00.

In other words, the potential expense of a repair would certainly not deter me from buying a Nav enabled car. All of the other reasons did though.

 

Great points and the exact reason I'm leaning toward the CPO one that is closer to me. I'm planning to pull the trigger on the car this morning before it gets sold and I lose my opportunity. Remember, I've been without wheels for nearly 2 weeks now and it's really getting tough for my wife and I to manage especially given that we both work.

I'll let everyone know what happens, stay posted.

Andrew

 

I'm sure you will make a fantastic choice that fits both yourself and your wife perfectly Andrew. I know its tough without the vehicle but your diligence and patience will pay dividends in rewards.

 

Congrats man! Post up some pics! Who knows maybe Caddyowner will make a poll for you as well lol

 

I can't speak for New Jersey, Ian, but up here in Toronto, I have purchased two LS' from non Lexus dealerships. My LS400 came from Roy Foss GM, and my 2004 LS430 came from a smaller specialty used car dealer.
With both cars, I gave the dealers a list of fixes, and the issues were repaired in a mediocre fashion.
With my 430, I had a few cosmetic and electronic issues which were addressed, but required multiple visits. I could tell the dealer was losing patience with me.
By comparison, I purchased an inexpensive used ES300 from Ken Shaw Lexus, and I was treated like a king. Every issue noted at time of sale was fixed prior to delivery, and I had the feeling that the dealer would stand behind the purchase.

In hindsite, the $4k I saved by purchasing my 430 independantly would've been better spent buying a cleaner car from the Lexus dealer.
Just my .02cents.

 

I think I have to agree with you. You bring up a good point with OTHER franchise dealers' used inventory. Usually, this would be a close second choice to buying a CPO Lexus "direct" but again, in the NE you have to be really careful as I see some real junk, even from Franchise dealers up there. Still I'd be far more comfortable if the car came from Joe's Ford Lincoln Mercury than a no-name independent outfit. In your case the independent was at least a small-time guy who had some pretty high end inventory and not 100 cars, much like the guy we bought the X5 4.6 from a while back (that blue one). Even then though, we had to spend 1200.00 in tires right off the bat, and that's the kind of small detail the Lexus dealer would have seen to immediately if the car was going to go on the lot.

Even my locally traded, and perfectly and meticulously cared for 2004 from a 3rd party dealer in Kansas has me a bit soured with the things I'm having to fix.

 

The independents are at the bottom of the car sales business heap. They usually can make a good living on selling cars that come through the auctions in huge numbers like accords, camrys, sebrings, off lease high volume 3 series BMWs, etc. and you can do well on those if you are a careful buyer. But for high demand luxury cars like the LS the Lexus dealers snap up all recent model year good examples at high auction prices (becuse they can turn then at even higher prices) so the 3rd party independents are left to scavenge the "issues" cars that the Lexus dealers don't want.

The independent guys will buff up these LS cosmetically and attempt to sell at a profit - in my opinion an LS from a 3rd party is almost never worth the supposed discount price from what you would pay for a likely cleaner better maintained car at the Lexus dealer. Obviously there are always exceptions to the typical rule so YMMV.

And if you are not satisfied on the car purchased from an independent you are basically screwed with no recourse. But if the LS you buy from a Lexus dealer has issues, you can always call the Lexus mother ship at HQ and complain - believe me most Lexus dealers will do a lot for you to avoid that situation.

 

Yep. The only way that you can sometimes get away with a steal at those indie dealers is one of two things:

A. A cherry car is traded by the former owner directly TO the indie dealer for another car that dealer had.

B. Indie dealer gets a lot of cars from the local high end dealer who doesn't keep a lot of used inventory to begin with, and anything over 60k miles and not 100 percent pristine gets sold to their "wholesalers"... i.e. the 3rd parties. This was the case with mine. The 3rd party dealer bought it directly from Scholfield Lexus of Wichita. I was fairly comfortable because I knew Scholfield would not sell a 97k mile car, no matter how perfect it was, and because the owner was completely local and followed the 5k mile service intervals. Still, it needed some TLC right off the bat.

Knowing what I know about Lexus and its used market value holding, how Lexus dealers operate and the advantages that come from buying there, Lexus is probably unequivocally the only brand that I would buy directly from the dealership were I to do it again. Other brands however tend to be a ripoff at dealer prices, especially the Germans, whose dealers don't even tend to have the perfectionist Lexus philosophy anyway... and in turn sell plenty of junk.

 

By this I presume you mean a "used" car dealer that is not Lexus? I got mine through Autolenders in NJ. They are a dealership of I believe 5 locations now throughout southern NJ that specializes in Lexus, but they have other makes. They offer off-lease vehilces straight from their network of banks.

I got my 2004 in Oct. 2008, and their policy is no haggle. Sort of like Saturn/Scion, what you see is what you get and that's the price. The only negotiable points are the finance rates and extended warranty if you want.

I enjoyed the experience a lot actually. I was able to walk around the lot, look at every vehicle, without salesman constantly coming over. A salesperson came out, asked once how I was doing and what I was interested in. I told her I was not sure yet (I was though) and that I would look around. She told me to take my time and when I'm ready to look for her. I found a few LS I wanted to drive, she got the keys and sent me on my way by myself.

Negotiations she said straight up what the deal was with them, and that the price was set by the banks and that's what they're selling for. Basically a "take it or leave it" kind of deal, but not put so harsh like that of course. If you like the "pay the sticker" price kind of deal, then it's good.

We're looking for possibly an RX350, and the will probably be on our short list of dealers to visit.