Mark levinson front door speaker replacements
09-24-10, 04:14 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Mark levinson front door speaker replacements
I know this has been discussed before, but I would like to be certain before I replace the factory front door speakers. I have a 2001 LS430 ML with Nav.A sound tech just refoamed my subwoofer and it works like a charm. However, the front speakers are pretty bad. He told can get me a pair of far superior 8ohm speakers that will work well with my car. I was concerned that they fit properly in the existing housing and was assured that won't be a problem. This guy does tons of car sound systems. Will replacing door speakers with 8ohm aftermarkets have any effect on the ML system/Amp? I know replacing the subwoofer with aftermarket was always a concern, but are the door speakers fairly a simple exchange without side effects to the ML system? Thanks all.
Last edited by Bocatrip; 09-24-10 at 04:17 PM.
09-24-10, 08:00 PM
#2
Moderator
If current door speakers are 8 ohms it would be no problem. If the current door speakers are 4 ohm than I suggest you go with replacement speakers that are same ohm range. Putting 8 ohm speakers to replace 4 ohms won't overload the amp the way putting 2 ohm speakers would do, but the 8 ohm speakers (replacing 4 ohm) would be less loud as they have twice the resistance to the amp.
09-24-10, 10:15 PM
#4
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Briefly I went on line searching for 6.5" 8ohm car speakers and came up with 3 choices. I believe one was Crunch and another was Pyle. Is there anything more specific that I need to know other than the 8ohms, and speaker width of 6.5"? I believe the depth is also important due to limited space. I know the voice coils are all under 2". Does having Nav play a part in choosing a door speaker?
Last edited by Bocatrip; 09-24-10 at 10:21 PM.
09-24-10, 10:34 PM
#6
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
09-24-10, 10:35 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Maybe check these out. It looks like they have two for the front that will drop in and three others that will fit with an aftermarket bracket. I put these in an older LS I have and they're good.
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/fi...hp?carid=15347
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/fi...hp?carid=15347
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09-24-10, 10:40 PM
#8
If there's Polk or another high end brand, that's entirely different and sure to be better than what you are pulling out (so long as it receives adequate power).
09-25-10, 05:26 AM
#9
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Maybe check these out. It looks like they have two for the front that will drop in and three others that will fit with an aftermarket bracket. I put these in an older LS I have and they're good.
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/fi...hp?carid=15347
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/fi...hp?carid=15347
09-25-10, 07:17 AM
#10
Moderator
Replacement speakers (even if the same nominal size speaker, ex 6.5 inch) very likely have baskets that are formed differently and/or have mounting holes in different locations on the new speaker that are different from the OEM speaker basket and mounting holes. Unless you have a written statement that the replacements are direct perfect fit replacements for the OEM LS door speakers you may have to do some mods to get them installed. So actually some 6.5s may be harder to install than going with a 6 or a 5 inch speaker. And in terms of size these drivers aren't going to sound much different between a 5 and a 7 inch range driver - just go for best quality that will fit - there should be some good choices.
In most cases slightly different basket size and mounting holes is not a big deal as the door mounting bracket on the car can be modified and/or new mounting holes drilled. Sometimes there is a template supplied that will accomplish the conversion. This is especially true when you go from 6.5 to let's say something like a 6 or 5 inch - in this case you'd have to fabricate a conversion template (not a big deal, usually just a piece of masonite or other wood material cut to fit) to mount into original door mounts and than mount smaller speaker to the template. The biggest concern is usually speaker depth because if it is too deep it can hit door internals and preclude installation. The only way to know for sure is to pull the LS door and speaker mount open and measure the mounting space behind the speaker and see if anything would block it.
In most cases slightly different basket size and mounting holes is not a big deal as the door mounting bracket on the car can be modified and/or new mounting holes drilled. Sometimes there is a template supplied that will accomplish the conversion. This is especially true when you go from 6.5 to let's say something like a 6 or 5 inch - in this case you'd have to fabricate a conversion template (not a big deal, usually just a piece of masonite or other wood material cut to fit) to mount into original door mounts and than mount smaller speaker to the template. The biggest concern is usually speaker depth because if it is too deep it can hit door internals and preclude installation. The only way to know for sure is to pull the LS door and speaker mount open and measure the mounting space behind the speaker and see if anything would block it.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 09-25-10 at 07:27 AM.
09-25-10, 01:23 PM
#11
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info Jabberwock. Does anyone know the measurment of maximum speaker depth to allow the proper fit in the front doors? I remember reading somewhere 2".
09-26-10, 05:38 AM
#12
Assuming the 8 ohm impedence is the correct spec, most home audio drivers are 8 ohm. Try looking for replacements on one of these sites:
http://www.partsexpress.com
http://www.madisound.com
http://www.solen.ca/
http://www.zalytron.com
My recommendation would be to avoid metal cones for the mid-range/woofers since they always have a high frequency resonance that has to be dealt with. Your best bet is to probably look for a paper based driver from Seas, Scan-Speak or Vifa . . . Check the mounting depths - if you can find one that is shallow enough, you could always "manufacture" your own mount out of ply wood. Also, suggest finding a driver with a high Qts value since in most cars the door acts as either an infinite baffle or as a very large leaky enclosure. In both cases, the driver itself will need to have sufficient resistance to movement in the spider and the surround to still offer decent bass response without overextending. I'd recommend a Qts of at least .6 and closer to .8 or 1.0 would be much better.
I hope this helps.
Andrew
http://www.partsexpress.com
http://www.madisound.com
http://www.solen.ca/
http://www.zalytron.com
My recommendation would be to avoid metal cones for the mid-range/woofers since they always have a high frequency resonance that has to be dealt with. Your best bet is to probably look for a paper based driver from Seas, Scan-Speak or Vifa . . . Check the mounting depths - if you can find one that is shallow enough, you could always "manufacture" your own mount out of ply wood. Also, suggest finding a driver with a high Qts value since in most cars the door acts as either an infinite baffle or as a very large leaky enclosure. In both cases, the driver itself will need to have sufficient resistance to movement in the spider and the surround to still offer decent bass response without overextending. I'd recommend a Qts of at least .6 and closer to .8 or 1.0 would be much better.
I hope this helps.
Andrew
09-26-10, 06:46 AM
#13
Moderator
Andrew - nice post with good info. I think a primary consideration in finding reasonable replacements (assuming same ohm range can be matched) would be to try to find a replacement with same sensitivity. Knowing the sensitivity of the original speaker and matching that or getting close with a replacement will keep the apparent loudness match in balance with the rest of the speakers in the system. There is also frequency response to consider, type of cross over, etc so this is a simplification, but the info and details are available if someone wanted to educate themselves on this stuff - it can get pretty complex.
Interestingly I checked Crutchfield web site for replacement options and sizing on LS430 door speakers - it came back with a very small number of recommendations for an 02 LS but not for an 06 LS. I wonder if something changed in the door of 04-06 LS.
As an aside, my experience is that most high end drivers are gonna be built too deep for easy installation in car doors since they are typically designed and built for non automotive use (meaning without any significant magnet and basket depth restrictions). High end auto sound guys will typically not even blink in pulling out the metal saw and making big holes in the car wherever they need to do so.
But sometimes you can get lucky in a car mounting point and find that you have plenty of room to install a larger depth driver. Other wise you are stuck with purpose built shallow depth automotive drivers. But these can certainly be decent "good enough" speakers especially for the relatively noisy and acoustically compromised auto environment.
Interestingly I checked Crutchfield web site for replacement options and sizing on LS430 door speakers - it came back with a very small number of recommendations for an 02 LS but not for an 06 LS. I wonder if something changed in the door of 04-06 LS.
As an aside, my experience is that most high end drivers are gonna be built too deep for easy installation in car doors since they are typically designed and built for non automotive use (meaning without any significant magnet and basket depth restrictions). High end auto sound guys will typically not even blink in pulling out the metal saw and making big holes in the car wherever they need to do so.
But sometimes you can get lucky in a car mounting point and find that you have plenty of room to install a larger depth driver. Other wise you are stuck with purpose built shallow depth automotive drivers. But these can certainly be decent "good enough" speakers especially for the relatively noisy and acoustically compromised auto environment.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 09-26-10 at 06:56 AM.
09-26-10, 10:57 AM
#14
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for your great imput. You guys really know your stuff! I am not at all savvy with car audio systems, and I'm confident the tech doing it for me is aware of the variables to consider for the install. He told me the speakers he will choose will be considerably better in quality to the factory ones. He tested the front door speakers and knows they are 8ohm and after pulling one out assured me the replacements will fit the housing in the door. I have the option to replace the rear door speakers as well(which are working fine), but I want to keep the expenditure on this system in check. Out of curiosity, I will ask for the make of the speakers. For what I am paying, I will not be complaining.
09-26-10, 07:01 PM
#15
Andrew - nice post with good info. I think a primary consideration in finding reasonable replacements (assuming same ohm range can be matched) would be to try to find a replacement with same sensitivity. Knowing the sensitivity of the original speaker and matching that or getting close with a replacement will keep the apparent loudness match in balance with the rest of the speakers in the system. There is also frequency response to consider, type of cross over, etc so this is a simplification, but the info and details are available if someone wanted to educate themselves on this stuff - it can get pretty complex.
One other thing I have noticed with the Mark Levinson system is that the tweeters sound like they are playing pretty low without noticeable distortion, even at high levels. I haven't pulled the tweeters to see what they are but I suspect they are larger than a 1" dome, perhaps a 1.5 or even 2.0" driver . . .
Interestingly I checked Crutchfield web site for replacement options and sizing on LS430 door speakers - it came back with a very small number of recommendations for an 02 LS but not for an 06 LS. I wonder if something changed in the door of 04-06 LS.
As an aside, my experience is that most high end drivers are gonna be built too deep for easy installation in car doors since they are typically designed and built for non automotive use (meaning without any significant magnet and basket depth restrictions). High end auto sound guys will typically not even blink in pulling out the metal saw and making big holes in the car wherever they need to do so.
But sometimes you can get lucky in a car mounting point and find that you have plenty of room to install a larger depth driver. Other wise you are stuck with purpose built shallow depth automotive drivers. But these can certainly be decent "good enough" speakers especially for the relatively noisy and acoustically compromised auto environment.
One other thing I have noticed with the Mark Levinson system is that the tweeters sound like they are playing pretty low without noticeable distortion, even at high levels. I haven't pulled the tweeters to see what they are but I suspect they are larger than a 1" dome, perhaps a 1.5 or even 2.0" driver . . .
Interestingly I checked Crutchfield web site for replacement options and sizing on LS430 door speakers - it came back with a very small number of recommendations for an 02 LS but not for an 06 LS. I wonder if something changed in the door of 04-06 LS.
As an aside, my experience is that most high end drivers are gonna be built too deep for easy installation in car doors since they are typically designed and built for non automotive use (meaning without any significant magnet and basket depth restrictions). High end auto sound guys will typically not even blink in pulling out the metal saw and making big holes in the car wherever they need to do so.
But sometimes you can get lucky in a car mounting point and find that you have plenty of room to install a larger depth driver. Other wise you are stuck with purpose built shallow depth automotive drivers. But these can certainly be decent "good enough" speakers especially for the relatively noisy and acoustically compromised auto environment.
Bocatrip - my recommendation is that you keep all the old parts that come out of the car - you may find that you prefer the sound of the Mark Levinson in the end . . .
Andrew
Last edited by abs; 09-26-10 at 07:04 PM.