430 or 460 (The Mother thread.)
09-15-13, 11:54 PM
#196
That's a tough choice really, all depends I guess on how long you'll be keeping it. Both sound interesting but most would need more info to make a better educated decision. Do you decide to save the $7k for something else or do you say I want something newer? All choices you have to make...
09-16-13, 12:46 AM
#197
I would take the LS430 over the LS460. The LS460 is a very nice car but I prefer the look of the LS430. The 430 is also more reliable.
However if you do decide to get the 460, go for the long wheel base version. Supposedly it comes with more standard features than the regular LS460 and the extra room is a nice bonus.
However if you do decide to get the 460, go for the long wheel base version. Supposedly it comes with more standard features than the regular LS460 and the extra room is a nice bonus.
09-16-13, 03:04 AM
#198
Lexus Champion
depends on the year and price difference - LS430 is a bit more reliable, but once you get past the devastating valve issue of 2007-8, and some issues with stereos and brakes, there isn't much going wrong with LS460
LS460 has higher parts cost, but is a much sharper looking car to me, and has better handling, power, and some really fun advanced features
LS460 has higher parts cost, but is a much sharper looking car to me, and has better handling, power, and some really fun advanced features
Last edited by LScowboyLS; 09-16-13 at 03:14 AM.
09-16-13, 09:54 AM
#200
I like the exterior look of the LS460 better, but having just looked at one at a dealership, they don't feel as substantial as the LS430. The interior is the same way, it's nice, but it doesn't feel like a flagship car anymore, almost like a nicer ES. When you open and close the doors on an LS430, it feels like you're closing a bank vault. The 460 just doesn't have that "carved from granite" feeling.
If I was a new car buyer, I don't know if I could justify buying an LS over an ES because it just doesn't feel like that much of an upgrade, especially considering you could buy 2 brand new ES for the price of 1 Ls.
$23k for an 2004 LS is high, you're really paying a big premium for those low miles, and if you own it a few years you're probably going to take a big hit with depreciation. I personally think you're better off buying a cheaper LS430, you can find really nice 2004 models in the $15-$16k range.
If I was a new car buyer, I don't know if I could justify buying an LS over an ES because it just doesn't feel like that much of an upgrade, especially considering you could buy 2 brand new ES for the price of 1 Ls.
$23k for an 2004 LS is high, you're really paying a big premium for those low miles, and if you own it a few years you're probably going to take a big hit with depreciation. I personally think you're better off buying a cheaper LS430, you can find really nice 2004 models in the $15-$16k range.
09-16-13, 10:57 AM
#201
What year is the 460 and has it had the valve train recall fixed? Suspension work is very expensive. Control arms seem to go out a lot on the 460's. The Marc Levison amp is another problem many face and the rebuild for the amp is like a grand. They are sharper, more powerful, and more features but they will also eat away at your wallet more then the 430 for sure. I like the 460's a lot but I am not real impressed with their overall reliability.
09-16-13, 08:42 PM
#202
Pole Position
I was looking for a 07 ls460 to 09s. The 2010 are not cheaper than at least 35k + for something decent.
I am actually scared to get a ls460 without a cpo warranty. Not all ls460s that are 07 / 08 have the valve spring recall done
I do like the look of the 460s they are quicker as well but to be honest I am not at all impressed with the reliability issues.
I am actually scared to get a ls460 without a cpo warranty. Not all ls460s that are 07 / 08 have the valve spring recall done
I do like the look of the 460s they are quicker as well but to be honest I am not at all impressed with the reliability issues.
09-16-13, 09:09 PM
#203
Racer
09-16-13, 11:24 PM
#206
I can't see selling mine. I'll give it to my dad or brother to drive, once I remove it from service. Going to have the oil analyzed by Blackstone Labs. Interested to know the motors health, with the high miles on it.
09-17-13, 04:31 AM
#208
haha
09-17-13, 06:57 AM
#209
Moderator
460 in general in similar trim and options is a heavier, more powerful and more complicated car with correspondingly more to break and go wrong. Much more powerful engine so it will be faster - for me that's pretty useless because the 430 is plenty fast. Likely 10% reduction in MGP on the 460 in real world conditions. I would expect general maintenance and parts to be higher cost than 430. Unless I got a 09-13 LS460 at a huge discount from market value I will stick to my 2006 LS430 for now.
Getting a bigger heavier more complicated car like the 460 these days seems like a step backwards. I'm gonna try to run and enjoy my 2006 LS 430 for next 5 years or so till there are some full size plugin hybrids on the market that do not sell for a premium over straight gas engines. That time is coming and in next 5 years the hybrid technology will have become more reliable and proven.
And by then the current crazy mess of manufacture's poorly conceived driver to screen interface mess will be standardized and much more simple and usable. Over the last 10 years or so the proprietary completely non standardized driver to car interface methods built by car makers (screens and mice like controllers) has become a huge problem...in fact many if not all of these clunky poorly designed interfaces are dangerous. At some point this will become more generally recognized and regulated to insure standardized and simplified operation for driver car interface controls.
Getting a bigger heavier more complicated car like the 460 these days seems like a step backwards. I'm gonna try to run and enjoy my 2006 LS 430 for next 5 years or so till there are some full size plugin hybrids on the market that do not sell for a premium over straight gas engines. That time is coming and in next 5 years the hybrid technology will have become more reliable and proven.
And by then the current crazy mess of manufacture's poorly conceived driver to screen interface mess will be standardized and much more simple and usable. Over the last 10 years or so the proprietary completely non standardized driver to car interface methods built by car makers (screens and mice like controllers) has become a huge problem...in fact many if not all of these clunky poorly designed interfaces are dangerous. At some point this will become more generally recognized and regulated to insure standardized and simplified operation for driver car interface controls.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 09-17-13 at 07:24 AM.
09-17-13, 02:52 PM
#210
This thread is amusing because I have similar thoughts regarding the "complexity" of 430's. 
I've also been looking at 430's '04-'06 but I'm past time on those because I tend to want a replacement that is in the sub 5 year 50K miles range. That leaves brings in the '07-09' 460's. I prefer the shape of the 460 though I agree that the 430 in terms of build-fit tends to have more draw. The 460 will have updated safety standards implemented. None of us desires to crash their car but life throws in such scenarios.
Judging by the 400 I'm still driving, long term is a high consideration. Ease of maintenance and any key wear factors. In that regard, the simplicity of the 400 has been proven. The 430's are now getting into that range while the 460 is still the "new kid". If you don't intend to drive the car well into the 200K+ range and this is a 3-5 year car, either is going to be suitable. You have good support here for 430 fixes while the 460 is generally still proving itself. This is Toyota so can can have confidence the product will have reliability beyond some of the Euro badges.
My choice would be towards a 460.
I've also been looking at 430's '04-'06 but I'm past time on those because I tend to want a replacement that is in the sub 5 year 50K miles range. That leaves brings in the '07-09' 460's. I prefer the shape of the 460 though I agree that the 430 in terms of build-fit tends to have more draw. The 460 will have updated safety standards implemented. None of us desires to crash their car but life throws in such scenarios. Judging by the 400 I'm still driving, long term is a high consideration. Ease of maintenance and any key wear factors. In that regard, the simplicity of the 400 has been proven. The 430's are now getting into that range while the 460 is still the "new kid". If you don't intend to drive the car well into the 200K+ range and this is a 3-5 year car, either is going to be suitable. You have good support here for 430 fixes while the 460 is generally still proving itself. This is Toyota so can can have confidence the product will have reliability beyond some of the Euro badges.
My choice would be towards a 460.