430 or 460 (The Mother thread.)
09-18-13, 09:13 AM
#212
I would do that trade just so I could sell it to buy the LS430 and the Crown.
Yeah, the 460 does have that giant Camry/ES look. For a long time I couldn't tell the difference between the ES and LS unless I got really close to it.
An LS460 on stock wheels doesn't stand out as much as an LS400 or LS430 do. Put a 460 on a nice set of 20 inch+ wheels and it really takes away the "Camry" look and gives it the presidential look of the older LS'.
hahaAn LS460 on stock wheels doesn't stand out as much as an LS400 or LS430 do. Put a 460 on a nice set of 20 inch+ wheels and it really takes away the "Camry" look and gives it the presidential look of the older LS'.
09-18-13, 12:52 PM
#213
Pole Position
Compared to ls430 the ls460 seems to have more issues, which area more severe. .nav screen not working. Already had it on my isf.. car stalling... more road noise. .valve issue. Etc..
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
This thread is amusing because I have similar thoughts regarding the "complexity" of 430's. 
I've also been looking at 430's '04-'06 but I'm past time on those because I tend to want a replacement that is in the sub 5 year 50K miles range. That leaves brings in the '07-09' 460's. I prefer the shape of the 460 though I agree that the 430 in terms of build-fit tends to have more draw. The 460 will have updated safety standards implemented. None of us desires to crash their car but life throws in such scenarios.
Judging by the 400 I'm still driving, long term is a high consideration. Ease of maintenance and any key wear factors. In that regard, the simplicity of the 400 has been proven. The 430's are now getting into that range while the 460 is still the "new kid". If you don't intend to drive the car well into the 200K+ range and this is a 3-5 year car, either is going to be suitable. You have good support here for 430 fixes while the 460 is generally still proving itself. This is Toyota so can can have confidence the product will have reliability beyond some of the Euro badges.
My choice would be towards a 460.
I've also been looking at 430's '04-'06 but I'm past time on those because I tend to want a replacement that is in the sub 5 year 50K miles range. That leaves brings in the '07-09' 460's. I prefer the shape of the 460 though I agree that the 430 in terms of build-fit tends to have more draw. The 460 will have updated safety standards implemented. None of us desires to crash their car but life throws in such scenarios. Judging by the 400 I'm still driving, long term is a high consideration. Ease of maintenance and any key wear factors. In that regard, the simplicity of the 400 has been proven. The 430's are now getting into that range while the 460 is still the "new kid". If you don't intend to drive the car well into the 200K+ range and this is a 3-5 year car, either is going to be suitable. You have good support here for 430 fixes while the 460 is generally still proving itself. This is Toyota so can can have confidence the product will have reliability beyond some of the Euro badges.
My choice would be towards a 460.
09-18-13, 04:36 PM
#214
I would drive a couple Audis and Infiniti's first an A8 or M56 no 7 series or Benz for me. Have to have a warrantee on the German cars but in the 460 the costs on even an unexpected repair can be alot without one, 430 not as much. You guys laugh at my 012 Treg I have enjoyed it alot and TDI's are coming down in price. Diesel is not free but torgue is fun.
09-18-13, 05:12 PM
#215
Compared to ls430 the ls460 seems to have more issues, which area more severe. .nav screen not working. Already had it on my isf.. car stalling... more road noise. .valve issue. Etc..
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
The good part is the engines and trannies are near bomb proof with regular maintenance schedules. Knowing the reliability the 430 has makes the choice a coin toss at times between a 460. If I were to need to go out today and shop fora car, my first direction would be for a 430 but if the wallet were fatter, a 460. I sounds lukewarm but as I mentioned, it is a coin toss day to day how I feel.
09-18-13, 07:11 PM
#216
Have noticed certain issues with the 460's early on. When assembling the 430 FAQ, some of the problems on the 430's were shocking. Nothing that throwing $ at doesn't fix but for most, having that scenario is The good part is the engines and trannies are near bomb proof with regular maintenance schedules. Knowing the reliability the 430 has makes the choice a coin toss at times between a 460.
If I were to need to go out today and shop fora car, my first direction would be for a 430 but if the wallet were fatter, a 460. I sounds lukewarm but as I mentioned, it is a coin toss day to day how I feel.
The good part is the engines and trannies are near bomb proof with regular maintenance schedules. Knowing the reliability the 430 has makes the choice a coin toss at times between a 460. If I were to need to go out today and shop fora car, my first direction would be for a 430 but if the wallet were fatter, a 460. I sounds lukewarm but as I mentioned, it is a coin toss day to day how I feel.
09-18-13, 07:37 PM
#217
Compared to ls430 the ls460 seems to have more issues, which area more severe. .nav screen not working. Already had it on my isf.. car stalling... more road noise. .valve issue. Etc..
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
09-19-13, 09:12 AM
#218
Compared to ls430 the ls460 seems to have more issues, which area more severe. .nav screen not working. Already had it on my isf.. car stalling... more road noise. .valve issue. Etc..
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
I almost bought a 05 UL yesterday until lexus dealer in Florida added dealer fees to purchase order. Wtf it was 699$. Telling me is
The Law in FL.
I agree with the whole 5 yrs old concept thats why thought of ls460.
For me CPO (roughly $2500 premium I think) was priceless as I fixed most of the typical wear items on the LS430 under the program (Rear Sunshade, Steering column, blown dash tweeter, wheel bearings, lower control bushings, a few park distance sensors, side view mirror glass, etc.)... so now that I got it all sorted, I would hesitate to sell it and start the process all over for another car. Mine is likely going to my son for his first car, he just has 10 years till his drivers liscence... car should have 175k at that point and be broken in nicely... ha!
Everyone I drive in it for work (including some execs with over $100k cars like CLS Mercedes and Audi A8's) can't believe it's an 8yr old car... works for me!
I vote go for the vehicle with a CPO warranty... I wouldn't buy a used Lexus any other way.
09-19-13, 12:03 PM
#219
CPO 430's are going to be less-less on the lots depending on region. There are nice PP ones with good maintenance history but those can take some hunting to find. Just love those retiree's who have them with ~6K miles annually and keep the service intervals regular. 
Sadly they tend to go to the dealer as a trade-in and the dealer marks them wayyy up.
Sadly they tend to go to the dealer as a trade-in and the dealer marks them wayyy up.
09-19-13, 03:50 PM
#220
Pole Position
Just put a deposit down, on a 05, sport edition with 48k miles. Will post pics once picked up
CPO 430's are going to be less-less on the lots depending on region. There are nice PP ones with good maintenance history but those can take some hunting to find. Just love those retiree's who have them with ~6K miles annually and keep the service intervals regular. Sadly they tend to go to the dealer as a trade-in and the dealer marks them wayyy up.
Sadly they tend to go to the dealer as a trade-in and the dealer marks them wayyy up.
09-19-13, 05:15 PM
#221
that 699$ dealer fee sounds like total typical dealer BS. At the last minute they spring that on you when you just want to get the deal done and get out of there. I would walk, honestly and I bet they call you back and it magically disappears. They tried to pull that stuff on my daughter in VA. Make them show you the statute where its written into law..
09-19-13, 07:27 PM
#222
Moderator
Doesn't matter what the fees are called, they are all BS. Just refuse to discuss and negotiate anything other than total drive out price. Ask to see the total drive out number plus the 3 numbers that it totals to in writing from the dealer - Total drive out price = 1)cost of the car + 2)tag and title fee + 3)local sales tax. Tell the sales manger you don't care what the misc fees are called, or how many fees there are, or how the dealer feels they are mandated/required by law, the President, his mommy....whatever. It is all pure BS to disguise increasing car cost after the deal is made on price.
There are only two real mandatory fees and they are 1) local sales tax and 2) Tag and Title fee. The rest of supposed "fees" is horse poop paid by people that don't understand the business. Politely tell them they are free to work the numbers backwards internally to fill in those fees on their forms any way they want to....because it is completely irrelevant to your deal. You are negotiating only on Drive out cost. They will absolutely hate that : ) They very much prefer to negotiate with noobs and people with no business sense.
The only thing a savvy buyer negotiates in a car buying transaction is total drive out price - nothing else should be discussed if you are in control of the deal and the transaction. If they refuse you need to quickly hit reject on the transaction or accept the fact that you are a fish and getting suckered.
There are only two real mandatory fees and they are 1) local sales tax and 2) Tag and Title fee. The rest of supposed "fees" is horse poop paid by people that don't understand the business. Politely tell them they are free to work the numbers backwards internally to fill in those fees on their forms any way they want to....because it is completely irrelevant to your deal. You are negotiating only on Drive out cost. They will absolutely hate that : ) They very much prefer to negotiate with noobs and people with no business sense.
The only thing a savvy buyer negotiates in a car buying transaction is total drive out price - nothing else should be discussed if you are in control of the deal and the transaction. If they refuse you need to quickly hit reject on the transaction or accept the fact that you are a fish and getting suckered.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 09-19-13 at 07:38 PM.
09-20-13, 12:52 AM
#223
Pole Position
this is the car here, with the Dealer fees, they had it for $23999 when i called them wanted 22k out the door.. i was having this shipped to me(i cover the shipping cost)
http://www.lexusofclearwater.com/Veh...-FL/2064624713
http://www.lexusofclearwater.com/Veh...-FL/2064624713
that 699$ dealer fee sounds like total typical dealer BS. At the last minute they spring that on you when you just want to get the deal done and get out of there. I would walk, honestly and I bet they call you back and it magically disappears. They tried to pull that stuff on my daughter in VA. Make them show you the statute where its written into law..
09-20-13, 12:56 AM
#224
Pole Position
Those are good points, its just i dont expect this to be happening at the lexus dealers..i guess at the end everyone is the same..
this is the car i am picking up
http://www.lexusoflehighvalley.com/V...-PA/2012362893
its not UL like the earlier one i was looking for , but what i am reading here the UL i have to deal with air suspension issues etc.
this is the car i am picking up
http://www.lexusoflehighvalley.com/V...-PA/2012362893
its not UL like the earlier one i was looking for , but what i am reading here the UL i have to deal with air suspension issues etc.
Doesn't matter what the fees are called, they are all BS. Just refuse to discuss and negotiate anything other than total drive out price. Ask to see the total drive out number plus the 3 numbers that it totals to in writing from the dealer - Total drive out price = 1)cost of the car + 2)tag and title fee + 3)local sales tax. Tell the sales manger you don't care what the misc fees are called, or how many fees there are, or how the dealer feels they are mandated/required by law, the President, his mommy....whatever. It is all pure BS to disguise increasing car cost after the deal is made on price.
There are only two real mandatory fees and they are 1) local sales tax and 2) Tag and Title fee. The rest of supposed "fees" is horse poop paid by people that don't understand the business. Politely tell them they are free to work the numbers backwards internally to fill in those fees on their forms any way they want to....because it is completely irrelevant to your deal. You are negotiating only on Drive out cost. They will absolutely hate that : ) They very much prefer to negotiate with noobs and people with no business sense.
The only thing a savvy buyer negotiates in a car buying transaction is total drive out price - nothing else should be discussed if you are in control of the deal and the transaction. If they refuse you need to quickly hit reject on the transaction or accept the fact that you are a fish and getting suckered.
There are only two real mandatory fees and they are 1) local sales tax and 2) Tag and Title fee. The rest of supposed "fees" is horse poop paid by people that don't understand the business. Politely tell them they are free to work the numbers backwards internally to fill in those fees on their forms any way they want to....because it is completely irrelevant to your deal. You are negotiating only on Drive out cost. They will absolutely hate that : ) They very much prefer to negotiate with noobs and people with no business sense.
The only thing a savvy buyer negotiates in a car buying transaction is total drive out price - nothing else should be discussed if you are in control of the deal and the transaction. If they refuse you need to quickly hit reject on the transaction or accept the fact that you are a fish and getting suckered.