430 or 460 (The Mother thread.)
05-04-11, 06:30 AM
#76
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Lexus was never about cutting-edge styling. Every Lexus design until recently has been conservative in the extreme, to the point of it being by far the brand's most common criticism. Lexus buyers from the LS400 on wanted the reliability, engineering, quality feel, value, and manufacturing excellence Lexus championed in the market. The latest styling was clearly not a big priority to them or they'd have chosen a Mercedes or BMW.
Even then image is in the eye of the beholder. You may see a "Japanese Buick" every time you see an LS430, but when I see a modern Jag all I see is a Tata. Unless it's a bit older - then I see a Ford.
05-04-11, 09:49 AM
#78
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You say that, and then go on to talk about nothing but the car's image - no, I don't think you have the foggiest notion of what appeals to the Lexus faithful.
Lexus was never about cutting-edge styling. Every Lexus design until recently has been conservative in the extreme, to the point of it being by far the brand's most common criticism. Lexus buyers from the LS400 on wanted the reliability, engineering, quality feel, value, and manufacturing excellence Lexus championed in the market. The latest styling was clearly not a big priority to them or they'd have chosen a Mercedes or BMW.
Lexus was never about cutting-edge styling. Every Lexus design until recently has been conservative in the extreme, to the point of it being by far the brand's most common criticism. Lexus buyers from the LS400 on wanted the reliability, engineering, quality feel, value, and manufacturing excellence Lexus championed in the market. The latest styling was clearly not a big priority to them or they'd have chosen a Mercedes or BMW.
And you act like the LS460 isn't a beautiful car! (It is!) Why wouldn't somebody be further enticed to purchase one based on that fact alone?
05-04-11, 11:58 AM
#81
Racer
Every Lexus design until recently has been conservative in the extreme, to the point of it being by far the brand's most common criticism. Lexus buyers from the LS400 on wanted the reliability, engineering, quality feel, value, and manufacturing excellence Lexus championed in the market. ...
I agree 100% and exactly why I bought mine. I hope Lexus plans to continue with this focus.
I looked at the LS460 for about 2 minutes, it's not a car I would buy as I happen to like the 430 style more.
05-04-11, 12:12 PM
#82
Having both in our family I can tell you...
Well, this is a tough one. I was all hip on trading my 430 for a 460 but now i don't know if it is worth the extra money, and its big money too. so I have a really clean low mile 05, and it would take 22,000 to get the 460, its an 09. I don't think its worth it.
I know everyone is biased, and they love their own car, and it's easy to say everything else is not as nice as "your car", but I want to give you a NO BS report on what I thought.
The good - the motor has lots of power. the brakes are nice and stop faster than the 430 by a fair amount. The trans is so smooth you can hardly feel it shift.
the bad - I was really let down by the interior and this may be the deal breaker. The center counsel looks like cheapy plastic. not as lush as the 430. Honestly the inside is very similar to the is250. it just doesn't look well built, or as rich of materials as they used to put in the 430.
Also, the 460 may handle a little better, but the steering is not as good as the 430. Also, the ride in the 460 seems a little harder than the 430, not much, but it is not as soft.
So that is it in a nutshell. Honestly, I might pay 5 grand to upgrade, but I doubt it. I know the 460 looks cooler, but I figured it would be a whole lot more car than what it is. It just feels like a is250 on steroids. I may look at the Merc, however I am not going to buy another Merc, they have to many gremlins in them, the lexus is so much more reliable than my past mercs. I also had a stupid phase where I bought 2 cadillacs, boy was i dumb. they fell apart. I thought I had just got a bad car, so I bought another one, and then realized after talking with the service guys that they are all junk.
I know everyone is biased, and they love their own car, and it's easy to say everything else is not as nice as "your car", but I want to give you a NO BS report on what I thought.
The good - the motor has lots of power. the brakes are nice and stop faster than the 430 by a fair amount. The trans is so smooth you can hardly feel it shift.
the bad - I was really let down by the interior and this may be the deal breaker. The center counsel looks like cheapy plastic. not as lush as the 430. Honestly the inside is very similar to the is250. it just doesn't look well built, or as rich of materials as they used to put in the 430.
Also, the 460 may handle a little better, but the steering is not as good as the 430. Also, the ride in the 460 seems a little harder than the 430, not much, but it is not as soft.
So that is it in a nutshell. Honestly, I might pay 5 grand to upgrade, but I doubt it. I know the 460 looks cooler, but I figured it would be a whole lot more car than what it is. It just feels like a is250 on steroids. I may look at the Merc, however I am not going to buy another Merc, they have to many gremlins in them, the lexus is so much more reliable than my past mercs. I also had a stupid phase where I bought 2 cadillacs, boy was i dumb. they fell apart. I thought I had just got a bad car, so I bought another one, and then realized after talking with the service guys that they are all junk.
05-04-11, 02:25 PM
#83
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i just feel it is the changing of the guard if you will like jag did in what 07 or 08 when they switched to making sport sedans instead of old school luxo cruisers and for a year or two they actually didn't make a big cadi type car but rather started chasing the infiniti style.
infiniti went wrong in my mind when it stopped making the Q, and i have a fear that lexus is on the same track when comparing the 460 to the 430.
i feel like the person attracted to the 460 does not so much feel the same attraction to the 430 and vice versa. i just happen to be possibly a little old school where in i like the older 430 look much more than the 460 look.
the worse track record just adds more reason for me not to upgrade to a 460.
newer is not always better
____________
so i live in a neighborhood with 2 sides to it, we just happened to move onto the old money side and the sociological differences are so think you can almost see the line drawn down the middle... its younger folks on one side and older folks on the other (my side is old folks but i am 29 btw). on my side there are a couple 430's (mine included) and 2 of them are the 01-03 UL versions. i have counted 3 460's on the other side as well as some new porsche's and an r8 as well as many cst cadi's and small 3 series bmw's and a freight load of various infiniti's. my side has some big bodied cadis' a few older jags and a couple 7 and 5 series bmw's, and more big bodied benzes (500's & 600's) than i care to count. 1 new ferrari and a new zr1 but those are just rarities. anywhozer i just feel like it is a difference in personality more than anything else in my mind cuz ceterus parabus (all things being equal like income) there is no reason why there are no 460's on my side of my neighborhood.
maybe age has something to do with it,, older folks and some younger who like that sort of look like the 430's and younger folks like the 460's. its like modern art vs. contemporary art ,, wait i actually like some modern art more and those old jesus pics really start to annoy me after a while...
infiniti went wrong in my mind when it stopped making the Q, and i have a fear that lexus is on the same track when comparing the 460 to the 430.
i feel like the person attracted to the 460 does not so much feel the same attraction to the 430 and vice versa. i just happen to be possibly a little old school where in i like the older 430 look much more than the 460 look.
the worse track record just adds more reason for me not to upgrade to a 460.
newer is not always better
____________
so i live in a neighborhood with 2 sides to it, we just happened to move onto the old money side and the sociological differences are so think you can almost see the line drawn down the middle... its younger folks on one side and older folks on the other (my side is old folks but i am 29 btw). on my side there are a couple 430's (mine included) and 2 of them are the 01-03 UL versions. i have counted 3 460's on the other side as well as some new porsche's and an r8 as well as many cst cadi's and small 3 series bmw's and a freight load of various infiniti's. my side has some big bodied cadis' a few older jags and a couple 7 and 5 series bmw's, and more big bodied benzes (500's & 600's) than i care to count. 1 new ferrari and a new zr1 but those are just rarities. anywhozer i just feel like it is a difference in personality more than anything else in my mind cuz ceterus parabus (all things being equal like income) there is no reason why there are no 460's on my side of my neighborhood.
maybe age has something to do with it,, older folks and some younger who like that sort of look like the 430's and younger folks like the 460's. its like modern art vs. contemporary art ,, wait i actually like some modern art more and those old jesus pics really start to annoy me after a while...
Last edited by sojah; 05-04-11 at 03:09 PM.
05-04-11, 02:51 PM
#84
Lexus Test Driver
i just feel it is the changing of the guard if you will like jag did in what 07 or 08 when they switched to making sport sedans instead of old school luxo cruisers and for a year or two they actually didn't make a big cadi type car but rather started chasing the infiniti style.
infiniti went wrong in my mind when it stopped making the Q, and i have a fear that lexus is on the same track when comparing the 460 to the 430.
i feel like the person attracted to the 460 does not so much feel the same attraction to the 430 and vice versa. i just happen to be possibly a little old school where in i like the older 430 look much more than the 460 look.
the worse track record just adds more reason for me not to upgrade to a 460.
newer is not always better
____________
so i live in a neighborhood with 2 sides to it, we just happened to move onto the old money side and the sociology differences are so think you can almost see the line drawn down the middle... its younger folks on one side and older folks on the other (my side is old folks but i am 29 btw). on my side there are a couple 430's (mine included) and 2 of them are the 01-03 UL versions. i have counted 3 460's on the other side as well as some new porsche's and an r8 as well as many cst cadi's and small 3 series bmw's and a freight load of various infiniti's. my side has some big bodied cadis' a few older jags and a couple 7 and 5 series bmw's, and more big bodied benzes (500's & 600's) than i care to count. 1 new ferrari and a new zr1 but those are just rarities. anywhozer i just feel like it is a difference in personality more than anything else in my mind cuz ceterus parabus (all things being equal like income) there is no reason why there are no 460's on my side of my neighborhood.
maybe age has something to do with it,, older folks and some younger who like that sort of look like the 430's and younger folks like the 460's. its like modern art vs. contemporary art ,, wait i actually like some modern art more and those old jesus pics really start to annoy me after a while...
infiniti went wrong in my mind when it stopped making the Q, and i have a fear that lexus is on the same track when comparing the 460 to the 430.
i feel like the person attracted to the 460 does not so much feel the same attraction to the 430 and vice versa. i just happen to be possibly a little old school where in i like the older 430 look much more than the 460 look.
the worse track record just adds more reason for me not to upgrade to a 460.
newer is not always better
____________
so i live in a neighborhood with 2 sides to it, we just happened to move onto the old money side and the sociology differences are so think you can almost see the line drawn down the middle... its younger folks on one side and older folks on the other (my side is old folks but i am 29 btw). on my side there are a couple 430's (mine included) and 2 of them are the 01-03 UL versions. i have counted 3 460's on the other side as well as some new porsche's and an r8 as well as many cst cadi's and small 3 series bmw's and a freight load of various infiniti's. my side has some big bodied cadis' a few older jags and a couple 7 and 5 series bmw's, and more big bodied benzes (500's & 600's) than i care to count. 1 new ferrari and a new zr1 but those are just rarities. anywhozer i just feel like it is a difference in personality more than anything else in my mind cuz ceterus parabus (all things being equal like income) there is no reason why there are no 460's on my side of my neighborhood.
maybe age has something to do with it,, older folks and some younger who like that sort of look like the 430's and younger folks like the 460's. its like modern art vs. contemporary art ,, wait i actually like some modern art more and those old jesus pics really start to annoy me after a while...
Great comparisons too! This is why we have so many cars to choose from, everyone has a different taste. Just for the record, I am 21 yrs old and prefer the 430 to the 460 styling wise. I believe the 430 achieved the goal for a luxury car: to look elegant, big, solid, yet in a quiet and conservative manner. I also loved the W140 S-class and E38 7 series as a kid growing up in the 90s, still love em today. Just that same restrained yet tasteful styling the LS430 has (and indeed every luxury car should have).
Disclaimer: I am the sort of person who also hates loud people and crowded places. Not much of a party guy either, or a drinking guy lol. Perhaps a bit boring for my age group
05-04-11, 03:23 PM
#85
Sojah, you've been eyeballing the S-class, and I think you'll regret it if you don't get it. S-class is a world benchmark for luxury, and the current one looks fantastic. Excellent build quality too, one of my favs at the auto show this yr.
Great comparisons too! This is why we have so many cars to choose from, everyone has a different taste. Just for the record, I am 21 yrs old and prefer the 430 to the 460 styling wise. I believe the 430 achieved the goal for a luxury car: to look elegant, big, solid, yet in a quiet and conservative manner. I also loved the W140 S-class and E38 7 series as a kid growing up in the 90s, still love em today. Just that same restrained yet tasteful styling the LS430 has (and indeed every luxury car should have).
Disclaimer: I am the sort of person who also hates loud people and crowded places. Not much of a party guy either, or a drinking guy lol. Perhaps a bit boring for my age group
Great comparisons too! This is why we have so many cars to choose from, everyone has a different taste. Just for the record, I am 21 yrs old and prefer the 430 to the 460 styling wise. I believe the 430 achieved the goal for a luxury car: to look elegant, big, solid, yet in a quiet and conservative manner. I also loved the W140 S-class and E38 7 series as a kid growing up in the 90s, still love em today. Just that same restrained yet tasteful styling the LS430 has (and indeed every luxury car should have).
Disclaimer: I am the sort of person who also hates loud people and crowded places. Not much of a party guy either, or a drinking guy lol. Perhaps a bit boring for my age group
05-05-11, 06:06 AM
#88
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If the 2004-2006 LS430 were cheaper, I probably would have gotten one. I knew I wanted black on black, but the long wheelbase options of its European counterparts were just too tempting to resist. I think I probably would've enjoyed a LS430 ultra luxury package, though.
I agree that Lexus is doing now sort of what Jaguar did around the same time--out with the old and in with the new. Except in Lexus's case the cars remain kind of bland styling-wise, and in Jaguar's case the new cars are extremely ugly!
I agree that Lexus is doing now sort of what Jaguar did around the same time--out with the old and in with the new. Except in Lexus's case the cars remain kind of bland styling-wise, and in Jaguar's case the new cars are extremely ugly!
05-05-11, 07:21 AM
#89
Lexus Test Driver
I need a few drinks first usually....lol. But then I usually don't really remember what happened.
I'm kind of glad you said this, because I feel the same way. The XF and XK look nice, but I don't like the XJ much...it's just way too busy, someone tried to cram in all the styling ques into one car and it doesn't work. There was a time (in the late 90s lol) where a black XJR was one of my favorites and the ultimate definition of success...oh was that ever such a long time ago lol.
I'm kind of glad you said this, because I feel the same way. The XF and XK look nice, but I don't like the XJ much...it's just way too busy, someone tried to cram in all the styling ques into one car and it doesn't work. There was a time (in the late 90s lol) where a black XJR was one of my favorites and the ultimate definition of success...oh was that ever such a long time ago lol.