Jabberwock

Yep. That big steel fan breaking off and going into the radiator could ruin your whole day. Guess that can't happen any more.

campisi

Second item sounds like BS to me unless the timing belt itself drives the water pump - which it doesn't.

AlexusAnja

Replacing the pump with belt are old-school practices that don't carry well to modern times. Replacing a pump at 90K with the belt is like throwing away 4 slices of an 8-slice pizza pie because it's cold. Replace parts as they are needed, not when it's called for my the service schedule. I find the schedules are really more designed as super-preventive than anything and used to generate for revenue for the dealers.

The water pump in my '95 Civic didn't go until it was 215K.

Bocatrip

Very interesting point of view.

JimsGX

The water pump, gasket and O-ring cost about $105... But the labor cost to replace it is approximately 4.8 hours. My local Lexus dealer charges $135hr. That comes to $648 + $105 = $753.00... Why not just replace the WP with the timing belt @ 90k? The timing belt has to come off the car to replace the WP. I'd rather pay the extra $105 and a small additional labor charge to replace the WP when I'm having the timing belt done.

I think getting 180k+ miles out of a water pump is the exception and not the norm. If it wasn't such a PITA to get to and didn't require the TB to be removed in order to replace it, I think it wouldn't matter when you changed it. But that's not the case on these engines.

I'll take the peace of mind I'll get for the additional $105...

Jim

usermel

Nobodies right or wrong in how and when they decide to perform this repair. Its a matter of what we feel good about. For some its economic and for others its about when they think it should be done period. Some think when you do the timing belt, nothing wrong with that. Others fell doing it when you have to and thats ok. This shouldn't turn into a debate to show whose smarter nor who knows more. This should display info so those confused as I was can get a better idea for whats needed at particular times in regards to car repair.

So of ten were told do this now and this at this point when it comes to cars services. Those who fix cars and understand cars have the advantage of knowledge. The rest of us get info from mechanics at dealerships or independent mechanics. To me, the labor cost of $753 is like financial rape, just my opinion. WHY? They don't seem to even think of how it effects the person in need of repairs. Me myself Im blessed to be able to pay the cost of ownership but, Im always shocked at the prices. $105 for the parts and the rest all labor/tax. WOW! I can agree with even $75 an hour because I respect mechanics, they have a tough job. That said, do the companies they work for pay them half the labor or more(Lexus dealers). I wonder about this. All in all this advice from you all on both sides helped me and will help other members and guest. I feel like Im handcuffed when I go to the dealer for repairs and Im always afraid of being over charged. Thanks to all who have made comments and typed helpful info on both sides of this discussion. LGNM

FinnLS

I had my timing belt changed at 90k service, service rep told that the
waterpump had no leaks or any symptoms of bad beargin.

I'm happy if I get say around 60k more from my waterpump and was thinking
that if the waterpump goes bad I will replace the waterpump and the timing belt
as well.

So in other words in 150-160k (hopefully) the cost is 2 x timing belts, 1x water pump, 2 x labour.

How about someone wirte up a poll about this?

AlexusAnja

I can see changing the water pump "proactively" at the 2nd timing belt change. At 180K, I think the water pump has done it's job and you'll probably get only a few more files out of it anyway if you did not change it.

hoonunya

I like this answer. I'll cross my fingers and do it when I next replace the timing belt. If it doesn't work out, I'll tell everyone here and we'll have a distinct data point 'cause my 96 hasn't had any failures (except for a battery).

Jabberwock

There is no absolute right answer unless we had some data points on when the average LS water pump goes out. Since most get changed with TB at 90-100 k its unlikely we will ever have a valid sample to draw from.

Per a previous post, if the water pump is approx $150 or so extra to replace during TB service, it may make sense to replace it at 90k with the timing belt (considering the labor). Even with Lexus quality it might be a stretch to expect the average WP to go 180k.

hoonunya

I probably would have replaced with the timing belt if I known it was significantly less cost then. I didn't know so that's were I am.

You'll have a data point of a guy that never had a problem with his LS but his water pump went out at XXX

Jabberwock

hoonunya - good luck. I'm sure I am not alone when I say I hope you make it to 180k with no mishaps. It is a stretch for a WP but given the quality of LS parts and components I bet you will make it (assuming you keep that car that long).

AlexusAnja

My Civic was a 4-banger and did 75 mph at about 3500 rpm, the LS430 does 75 mph at about 2000 rpm... that's a lot less stress and revolutions through the water pump. My Civic went 215.. I fully expect the LS to get to 180.

Bocatrip

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to do the waterpump at the 90K service as I had already purchased the car with the timing belt changed, sans the water pump. The only discouraging news was that the Lexus tech whom I befriended told me he does see the LS430 coming in with leaking water pumps. I believe he mentioned the 120K mark. I'll just have to keep an eye on mine as long as I own the car. I'm certainly not changing it just because I'm over 100K.

usermel

Bocatrip, I feel fellow member! I think its depending on who we speak to and what they personally feel is needed. The thing I see is that changing the water pump and 90,000 or waiting till issues arise is up to the individual. I myself remember when I was broke or at best living check to check. Now I feel what I missed totally is that mindset. The mindset to fix things when broken. Don't get me wrong, timings betls and tires and the obvious items we replace before needing to do so are the exceptions to the rule.

I guess many consider the water pump one of these things that are exceptions to the rule. I can't disagree with that at all but, what I will say is there seems to be ultimately no fixed nemuber to change the water pump, its changed when the timing belt is done due to location/cost and that's WISE. At the end of the day, there no wrong way to go about this items replacement. We all do what we do based on personal preference.

We all just have to hope that when an item is changed when it becomes a problem, the damage isn't to much to overcome price WISE. I'll change my water pump in about 10,000 miles, not due to price. I'm blessed to be able to afford the service price. I'm waiting because until I see an issue such as the service rep told me to look for, I don't want to go sit or drive a loaner till I have to. Again, when I was broke or living check to check, I would get things when needed! Whatever happened to that. Preventative measures are great but, for most hard working americans, what we are kindly discussing to do regarding our cars, isn't an option. LGNM