RA40

iTrader: (6)

Except under extreme duty and even then, the LS seem to do well with extended timing belt intervals. Look at some of the 1-2 LS's and there are samples out there at 150K. At that stage it may be a gamble though we're not hearing of many TB failures nor water pump failures. (Plenty of electrical issues though.)

Toyota's conservative nature is potentially costing us in early maintenance. The TB out of ours at 96K miles was in excellent shape. No obvious cracking or signs of wear. Same with the water pump...it spun smoothly but one of the idlers was becoming noisy. I dare guess, I could have done the interval at 120K miles but I also keep in mind that rare opportunity. I don't want to kill a motor to eek out another 10K or so. If the idler had seized...what?

That old adage "a stitch in time saves 9." I'm at a stage now where maintenance is allotted for the usual car necessities. Now go back 10+ years, it was tighter to spend $$. Even now I would like a good interval but such is life and cars.

randal

Concerning the longevity of the water pump, it certainly varies but one very important aspect of keeping the pump going for a long time is the maintenance interval of coolant changes and what particular coolant is being used.

Coolants are specially formulated to suppress corrosion and to lubricate the pump. Not all coolants are created equal. Some may not be compatible with your Lexus pump and be detrimental to it's life. If you use Toyota red/pink coolant with distilled water and change every 3 yrs/36k miles, your pump should last a good long time. However, if you are not faithful with the correct kind or frequency of change, you may compromise the pump.

StanVanDam

Just an FYI, Toyota Red = pre-2002 = not pre-mixed with distilled water, Toyota Pink = post-2002 = pre-mixed. Both are interchangeable, assuming you mix the red properly.

--------------------------------
PRODUCT GENERAL INFORMATION
P0004-02

Title:
ENGINE COOLANT COLOR CHANGE

Models:
'02 ES 300, GS 430/300. IS 300, LS 430, LX 470, RX300 & SC430

March 22, 2002

A new pink colored LLC is being phased into production for all 2002 Lexus models.

The color change does not affect the maintenance procedures or intervals established for the red coolant. The new pink coolant is 100% compatible with the current red coolant and red coolant can be used to replace, top off, or mix in with the pink coolant with no adverse effects.

Applicable Vehicles
2002 model year ES 300, GS 430/300, IS 300, LS 430, LX 470, RX 300 & SC 430 vehicles.
--------------------------------

RA40

iTrader: (6)

The other aspect to the cooling system is that I maintain a schedule where I will swap the thermostat at 30K miles. Will they go longer...potentially but in that instance, overheating is a Since I have to drain enough coolant out, it makes sense to completely drain and replace even though they have said it is extended coolant life. Coolant is a minimal maintenance cost as well.

JBrady

I changed only the TB at 95k and it was also in very good shape. I am now at 174k and the power steering pump has a slight leak. I am going to change the PS pump, water pump, idler and tensioner bearings. No problems with them but it makes sense with that many miles. I recently replaced the accesory drive tensioner due to a failed bearing.

Other items on my to replace list include the starter which is currently fine but can't last forever and I would rather replace on my schedule. Fuel pump for the same reasons. All the hoses again for the same reasons. Engine and trans mounts (definitely needed). This is just maintenance prior to moddifying and installing my S&S headers. I am also thinking low boost turbo but maintenance first and I will check my tolerance factor at that point.

V8_Fan

Don't confuse pink vs red and Toyota long life coolant (red) and super long life coolant (not red). The excerpt above merely states that instead of red LLC, some '02's come w/ pink LLC. The long life red coolant, which you mix with water, is for vehicles through 2003. In 2004, Toyota went to the pre-mixed super long life coolant, which is chemically INCOMPATIBLE with the long life. If you want to switch from LLC to SLLC, you have to flush the entire system w/ distilled water, including the heater cores, and repeat until the drained fluid is clear. Then drain the left and right side V-blocks, heater cores, and fill with SLLC. I don't recommend this, as if you bring it to the dealer, they'll assume if you have a '03, it's using red LLC.

Except for the exception above ('02 w/ pink LLC instead of red), it's a BAD idea to mix coolants of different colors despite what some mechanics say. A number of toyota owners (including myself) on the ih8mud toyota landcruiser site have had radiators sludge up within months after mixing coolants of different colors. Also the Toyota red LLC only retains corrosion resistance for about 2.5-3 yrs regardless of the mileage you drive. I was driving 6K mi/yr on my 4runner and changed after 3.5 yrs...too long. The radiator was showing rusty coolant. After that, I changed the intervals to 2.5 yrs, and it's remained clear red since. If you're feeling lazy, just drain & fill the radiator. That gets about half the coolant out (better than nothing; besides, that's what the dealer does...tech told me this. If you heat up the block by revving the engine at 2K, you can get more coolant out than just draining the radiator cold).

curiousB

I'm sure Toyota is conservative in their recomendations but the risk exposure with an interference engine is troubling. A seized water pump causing a TB to snap can seriously damaging an engine. Stretching a $1000 -1500 maintenance procudure could cost you a $4000-5000 engine repair. Not sure that is worth it.

Bocatrip

I believe the water pump would start leaking or making noise way before any chance of it seizing. Lexus does not necessarily replace the water pump during timing belt replacement unless requested.

curiousB

Seems to be more than a few folks with seized waterpumps causing TB to bind and sheer teeth on belt. Maybe these owners were deaf but for the sake of an extra $95 pump for a $1500 dealer repair I'd spend the extra 8%.

Bocatrip

If it were me, I would definitely replace the pump once the car is apart, but there are many owners that choose the cheaper route, especially once the car gets on in years.

Playdrv4me

Just to add to this conversation which I found interesting, a leaking WP was found on mine at 126k. Curiously, this turned a 500.00 maintenance, into a nearly 900.00 one. Since they'd already taken half the front end apart, I didn't have much choice but to proceed with their insane 210.00 water pump price. They also stated the additional labor was 1 labor hour, rather than .5.

On the other hand, my previous 2000 LX470 was cracked open at 150k a few months ago and nothing was found other than some cracking on the inside of the belt. That one is still running around somewhere on the original pump.

I of course found a seller on ebay (ironically a stones throw away from the dealer the car is being serviced at) selling OEM LS430 pumps for 108.00 plus shipping. Go figure.

Bocatrip

Unless you are doing the job yourself, many independent shops frown upon the customer bringing their own parts and some won't warranty the job if something goes wrong. I feel that it's best to let whomever is doing the job make money on the parts and labor, but do a good job.

Incidentally: When I purchased my car over 2 years ago, I found out the belt was changed by the previous owner, but not the water pump. Go fiigure! I'm certainlly not tearing apart the engine until I see or hear anything suspicious. A good sign for me is that the coolant is not only clean, but the right type for my year (Red).

sajack

My owner's manual doesn't require water pump replacement at the timing belt replacement of 6 years or 90,000 miles. My Lexus dealer saw no need to replace mine. I paid my dealer $340 labor plus the cost of the serpentine belt, timing belt, and new coolant.

Playdrv4me

That sounds about on par with what I was paying inclusive of the labor and all the parts. I was completely satisfied with that cost until the leaking water pump ruined the whole day, but I guess it's better that it was found now than having seized somewhere on the road. Remember mine had not been done and it's now at 126k, so it falls right in line with what several have said about them failing in the 120k range.

The Toyota dealers are good about checking the parts for wear before just replacing them, versus the Lex dealers that quote the entire job with every possible wear part included. The quandry there however, is that if the pump can't realistically be expected to make it to the NEXT belt change at 180k, it seems that you may as well do it when you do the belt, because the labor to get back to the water pump is the same as the timing belt ALL over again, and THEN some. So perhaps the take-away here is to leave all of it til 100-110k versus exactly at 90, so that you get a little more life out of your WP before you replace it. The other consideration is that there's time involved in that calculation also, so if you're on a 12 year old belt, you obviously need to give it more thought. Of course, this is a non issue if you inherit a car that had the t-belt done with no WP. In that case you just wait til you get warning signs from the WP since you didn't pay the labor to replace the t-belt in the first place.

Playdrv4me

This is a good point. I guess unless I was doing the work myself, that 100.00 pump would really be of little use to me, but I can't help but wonder if I had found some indy shop to do the whole kit n caboodle, that I could have gotten a break on the WP price (and probably everything else) even though I THOUGHT I was doing ok on cost until I got hit with the bad news about the pump.

Oh well, I'm picking nits at this point that really aren't of great consequence.