Hi All -

There seems to be a very repetitive positive theme here in the LS430 forum regarding the high build quality of the LS430, even compared to other models within the Lexus brand. This week I had a chance to once again confirm this premise by driving a virtually new (under 10k mileage) 2010 IS350 loaner from our Lexus dealer here in Orange County.

At the risk of alienating those of you who also own IS350's, the difference in build and materials quality was amazingly apparent, to say the least, especially cosmetically. The dash and armrest instrument clusters were loaded w/ cheap plastic - think: Toyota Corolla, carpeting and other fabric appointments were 2nd tier, and even the convenience items such as coin holders and ashtrays were lined with what I could only describe as spray on faux fabric.

I'm also a fairly big guy and found myself cramped by the distinct lack of headroom and overall interior volume. In all fairness, it drove extremely well and was almost 'frisky' compared to our 430's, however, my personal preference has comfort trumping agility. I'd have trouble driving from LA to San Francisco in a day in one of these compared to my land yacht which makes it with ease and virtually no fatigue.

I could go on and on and I know I'm comparing apples and oranges to a degree but, it's beyond me how the IS350 outsells the LS430/460 by such a wide margin, even taking into account the large price difference.

Bottom line, the best way to appreciate your LS430 is to drive one of these sister models and see first hand the difference in quality Lexus put into the 430.

Just one very satisfied owners opinion

 

Agree - the current IS series seems pretty downscale compared to the build quality of an LS430 interior.

 

It shouldn't be surprising why the IS is cheaper in both quality and price. It's just not meant to be an 'expensive' model at all.

 

It did surprise me but maybe its my inexperience with owning Lexus cars. My assumption is that all the Lexus series cars were priced differently but had very similar (if not identical) levels of quality of basic materials and build.

 

a4 is inferior when compared with an a8
3 series is inferior when compared with a 7 series
c class is inferior when compared with s class.

it's not only lexus that has different levels of luxury.

 

Yeah you can't compare the flagship to the entry level

But I do feel all the latest generation cars feels lesser in many ways compare to the previous generation.

The LS430 is definitely the best car Lexus made so far, follow by the SC430, then the 2nd gen GS, then 3rd and 4th gen ES.....

 

Guys -

Like I said in my original post, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Of course the entry level (if you call a $38-45k msrp entry level) will have less quality appointments than the flagship model, however, my surprise was more with why they'd use so much in the way of plastic 'chrome' and cheap carpeting along with what looks like flocked appointments in ANYTHING under the Lexus banner.


Like Jabberwock said "My assumption is that all the Lexus series cars were priced differently but had very similar (if not identical) levels of quality of basic materials and build" which is why I was so taken aback when I sat in the loaner for the first time. It was literally one of those 'wtf' moments ...

Perhaps subliminally it's also a concern for the future of the brand on my part. If they figure they can get away w/ inferior materials and build quality here, maybe, just maybe they'd consider incorporating that mindset into the future LS builds in order to keep pricing competitive.

 

It does make you feel good though that for less than an IS350 (quite a lot less), you can buy a better made car! I do get that your comment on the IS feeling 'frisky'. Since it is a competitor of the 3 series (which I had 1 yr experience with) I do imagine it is a lot more tossable and nimble in the corners. However, as I drive more and more I start to realize that handling is really mainly for the track. The 430 handles quite well all things considered IMO.

It's not just the IS, I have been in an ES and driven a GS. These are all 2007-2008 models. They all had squeaks and rattles over bumps! The GS was especially poor with coping with rough pavement. I know the GS is supposed to be a sporty car, but I could easily tell there was a big difference in how things were screwed together. Yes, I understand that these 2 cars are in different classes, but from a price standpoint they aren't that different.

Echoing mewhee's thoughts, I am glad I chose the LS430. Only thing that are on par (that I've driven) are the Merc S500 and BMW 5 series.

 

[QUOTE=CarGuy89;5943472]It does make you feel good though that for less than an IS350 (quite a lot less), you can buy a better made car!

Bingo, CarGuy !

Just imagine what you could get in the way of a CPO'd LS430/460 for that same $40-45K sticker on a new IS350. AutoTrader had an '06 LS430 (silver on black CL) w/ 20,000 miles for $32k last week. That said, there are those who just have to have a NEW car, regardless of the relative value, build quality or instant depreciation hit one takes starting w/ the first mile driven.

As said before, that's why restaurants have menus - different strokes for different folks

 

When I bought my CPO's 2004 LS430 UL with 22,000 miles I had intended to buy a full up loaded ES. The LS430 caught my eye and an hour later I drove it home for the same price as the ES. It is now 3 years later and I can't tell you what a good decision that was!

I almost made an incredible mistake, just because I had never purchased a used car in my lifetime. I'm still amazed at this car.

 

Everyone has already stated, you can't compare the flagship to entry level... and in this case, the flagship of previous generation before the "cost cutting" of the current generation vehicles. The current LS460 has cheaper plastic parts around than the 430, but I do like the overall look of the 460 interior better.

That's just how things are with any industry. Every year you have to show growth and profit, so the first things to go are the obvious things that most people don't pay too much attention to, which are the eye glass holder door, fuse box covers, coin trays, etc. The plastic is lower quality, edges are rougher with more flash, closes with a konk instead of nice firm close.

Lexus use to be far ahead with the fine touches in materials, but now they're just the same as anyone else. Cheap plastics covered up. I believe my '95 Civic interior had better material than the current IS350. Keep in mind, this is not just with Lexus, it's the same with BMW, Mercedes, Acura, etc. The eyeglass holder on my new MDX, cheaper than a $1 toy at the dollar store. Terrible to those that notice, but Acura is probably banking that most would not care.

 

It is not a maybe, it is already done. In my opinion and many other people agreed with me, the LS460's materials and build quality is inferior to the LS430 in many aspects.

It always works that way, non-famous company have to give you more for your money to build a fan base and build up the good reputation. Once they got the reputation, they cut back on what they give you to increase profit. That's why the best value is always from company starting up. Hyundai is next on the horizon.

The opposite end would be the 2002 Bentley Arnage I drove last weekend, it is a lesser car in many ways compare to my LS430 UL. It make sense, Bentley sell themselve with the badge alone, it can skim on many things and the buyers won't care or notice.

So most things offer either value or prestige, you can rarely find both together. You take your pick. The LS430 offer a pretty good balance, excellent value with decent highend image.

 

Good observation, BNR. I think the high end image is a big part of what Lexus LS models offer the car buying consumer w/o being TOO ostentatious.

You also said "The opposite end would be the 2002 Bentley Arnage I drove last weekend, it is a lesser car in many ways compare to my LS430 UL."

Out of curiosity, can you expand on that w/ any personal takes re: the ride itself, interior build and any other Bentley/LS430 comparisons . The reason I ask this is when I was having my chrome rims installed in Anaheim, there was a new Bentley getting rims next to mine to the tune of $10k each - $40k total! Frankly, it was nice but I kept thinking I'd really rather be driving my LS after visually comparing its interior to mine but I obviously didn't drive it. Btw, the car was being shipped to Thailand. I asked the mgr. how they can get that kind of money, no matter how special the rims were and he replied "Perceived value and that's what this end of the market EXPECTS to pay."

 

When I bought my '04 UL I was also looking at new cars, and had become very disappointed in the quality/feel of all the brands I shopped: Toyota, Honda, Audi, BMW, MB, and even Lexus. Lexus had a slight edge on some but I just haven't encountered any car made today that's put together nearly as well and made out of as nice materials as my LS430. The touted "green" materials are especially unpleasant.

After I became interested in the LS430 I also checked out the 460 to see what I'd be missing, and wondering if I should step up to an '07 or '08, and I was frankly quite shocked that even the LS flagship had slipped so much. To me it seemed that, around '06 or '07 or so (or I should say, models that debuted around then) the "new" Toyota materials and build also hit Lexus. Our '07 Camry, while reliable, is quite honestly a POS in build quality and the materials are sub par. I'm very disappointed in the direction Toyota and Lexus have both gone, and no way could I ever plunk down the $$$ for a 460 after having experienced the 430. I really wanted to like the 460 and it has some things to recommend it, but to me it just doesn't feel special in materials or construction like the 430, and lacking that at its high price point is a total turn off and deal-breaker for me.

The 430 might be the pinnacle of Lexus as a company if things don't change. Some might say that was the last-gen LS400, and I wouldn't argue with that pick either, but if there was a decrease in quality from the LS400 to 430 I think it's pretty small, compared to what happened with the LS460/ES350/etc.

I agree that Hyundai or some other may be the next big thing - they want it more and they're willing to work for it, and most of the others seem to have become complacent.

 

I don't have time to elaborate on that right now, I am thinking about doing a write up on my opinion/evaluation of the two Bentley Arnage that I test drove, so read about it there.

Let's just say both times after I drove the Arnage and got back into my LS430 UL to go home, my LS feels like a decent upgrade.....wow shocking I know, but that was how I felt

Here is a little something I wrote earlier about the Arnage:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/5944100-post79.html