Suggestions to Improve Handling?
03-17-11, 04:23 PM
#32
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Update:
I had Belle Tire swap summer for winter wheels / tires today. They also installed the sport suspension rear sway bar and bushings. Cost for the sway bar change was $100. They swap the wheels for free. Belle also has a new service to clean, wax, bag, and store your wheels in their warehouse until next fall for $60. I said heck yes to this as I won't have to schlep wheels & tires up and down the basement stairs.
I didn't have much chance to experiment with the handling, but it seems to be less sensitive to the brisk crosswinds we had this afternoon. I'll report in more detail after my commute tomorrow.
I had Belle Tire swap summer for winter wheels / tires today. They also installed the sport suspension rear sway bar and bushings. Cost for the sway bar change was $100. They swap the wheels for free. Belle also has a new service to clean, wax, bag, and store your wheels in their warehouse until next fall for $60. I said heck yes to this as I won't have to schlep wheels & tires up and down the basement stairs.
I didn't have much chance to experiment with the handling, but it seems to be less sensitive to the brisk crosswinds we had this afternoon. I'll report in more detail after my commute tomorrow.
03-18-11, 08:21 AM
#35
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
One of my co-workers jokingly asked if I noticed their other new service - short term rental of wheels and tires - in the front door and out the back.
03-18-11, 07:00 PM
#36
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
After 90 miles on the freeway today, I can report that I may have found the sweet spot for me. (18" wheels, stock springs & shocks with sport suspension rear sway bar and bushings) The vague rear suspension inputs are gone, but the smooth ride remains. With certain freeway undulations, I can still feel some "float", but the rear looseness is gone. I'll drive it this way for at least a month before deciding if I want to do anything else. I fear that more aggressive changes will impact the freeway smoothness, which is dear to me as that's nearly 90% of my driving.
03-18-11, 10:57 PM
#37
Well I've been riding on the polyurethane bushings all week and am very pleased by the improvement in handling ie. the reduction in sway and improved steering response. As background, my last three cars have been Acuras. One moderately to extensively modified, one mildly modified (that I still have and enjoy) and one near stock. And while the LS430 is a huge leap forward in luxury and smoothness, stock handling is somewhat well, uninvolving. So for this ride I'm gonna be very careful in my upgrades w/ the goal of a nice handling luxury daily driver. This Lexus will never be nor was it ever intended to be a canyon carver. Similarly, the VIP rides I see dominating the pics gallery must have much braver and tougher owners than I am. Guess my butt must have got more tender in my old age.
There are few things that you can do to a suspension w/o offering a new set of compromises. With other cars I've done the more complete upgrade path involving lowered springs or coilovers w/ stiffer spring rates, shocks set at higher compression and rebound rates, chassis stiffeners, +1 or +2 wheel/tires, and sway bar systems. Each of these steps usually resulted in an increase in NVH and/or ground clearance challenges while pursuing 'improved' handling.
In my experiance rear sway bars have usually given the one best improvement in handling w/o much downside. Previously I've gone w/ some significantly larger/stiffer bars and bushings and the one downside is a harsher thump when taking a speedbump or driveway entrance at an angle as one wheel is forced up in contrast to the other causing a lot of torque on the bar. In the case of the LS I suppose the rear 'sport 14mm' bar is sufficiently compliant enough that even w/ the polyurethane bushings there is little to no discernable bump thump added. As for the front bushing upgrade I note zero increase in harshness, just better turn-in response and better steering wheel centering.
So I gotta say if you are in pursuit of better handling while keeping in the spirit of a daily drive 'luxury' vehicle, this $50 mod is must.
Now on to the next biggest impact on handling, but w/ possibly large downsides. Wheels and tires. Hope I did my research well for fitment, comfy ride and low noise 'cause the the wheels and 245/45/18s are coming next week. And guess what, they are Max performance summer tires
.
There are few things that you can do to a suspension w/o offering a new set of compromises. With other cars I've done the more complete upgrade path involving lowered springs or coilovers w/ stiffer spring rates, shocks set at higher compression and rebound rates, chassis stiffeners, +1 or +2 wheel/tires, and sway bar systems. Each of these steps usually resulted in an increase in NVH and/or ground clearance challenges while pursuing 'improved' handling.
In my experiance rear sway bars have usually given the one best improvement in handling w/o much downside. Previously I've gone w/ some significantly larger/stiffer bars and bushings and the one downside is a harsher thump when taking a speedbump or driveway entrance at an angle as one wheel is forced up in contrast to the other causing a lot of torque on the bar. In the case of the LS I suppose the rear 'sport 14mm' bar is sufficiently compliant enough that even w/ the polyurethane bushings there is little to no discernable bump thump added. As for the front bushing upgrade I note zero increase in harshness, just better turn-in response and better steering wheel centering.
So I gotta say if you are in pursuit of better handling while keeping in the spirit of a daily drive 'luxury' vehicle, this $50 mod is must.
Now on to the next biggest impact on handling, but w/ possibly large downsides. Wheels and tires. Hope I did my research well for fitment, comfy ride and low noise 'cause the the wheels and 245/45/18s are coming next week. And guess what, they are Max performance summer tires
.
Last edited by monkeybutt; 03-18-11 at 11:04 PM.
03-19-11, 07:12 AM
#38
Pole Position
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I've been riding on the polyurethane bushings all week and am very pleased by the improvement in handling ie. the reduction in sway and improved steering response. As background, my last three cars have been Acuras. One moderately to extensively modified, one mildly modified (that I still have and enjoy) and one near stock. And while the LS430 is a huge leap forward in luxury and smoothness, stock handling is somewhat well, uninvolving. So for this ride I'm gonna be very careful in my upgrades w/ the goal of a nice handling luxury daily driver. This Lexus will never be nor was it ever intended to be a canyon carver. Similarly, the VIP rides I see dominating the pics gallery must have much braver and tougher owners than I am. Guess my butt must have got more tender in my old age.
There are few things that you can do to a suspension w/o offering a new set of compromises. With other cars I've done the more complete upgrade path involving lowered springs or coilovers w/ stiffer spring rates, shocks set at higher compression and rebound rates, chassis stiffeners, +1 or +2 wheel/tires, and sway bar systems. Each of these steps usually resulted in an increase in NVH and/or ground clearance challenges while pursuing 'improved' handling.
In my experiance rear sway bars have usually given the one best improvement in handling w/o much downside. Previously I've gone w/ some significantly larger/stiffer bars and bushings and the one downside is a harsher thump when taking a speedbump or driveway entrance at an angle as one wheel is forced up in contrast to the other causing a lot of torque on the bar. In the case of the LS I suppose the rear 'sport 14mm' bar is sufficiently compliant enough that even w/ the polyurethane bushings there is little to no discernable bump thump added. As for the front bushing upgrade I note zero increase in harshness, just better turn-in response and better steering wheel centering.
So I gotta say if you are in pursuit of better handling while keeping in the spirit of a daily drive 'luxury' vehicle, this $50 mod is must.
Now on to the next biggest impact on handling, but w/ possibly large downsides. Wheels and tires. Hope I did my research well for fitment, comfy ride and low noise 'cause the the wheels and 245/45/18s are coming next week. And guess what, they are Max performance summer tires.
There are few things that you can do to a suspension w/o offering a new set of compromises. With other cars I've done the more complete upgrade path involving lowered springs or coilovers w/ stiffer spring rates, shocks set at higher compression and rebound rates, chassis stiffeners, +1 or +2 wheel/tires, and sway bar systems. Each of these steps usually resulted in an increase in NVH and/or ground clearance challenges while pursuing 'improved' handling.
In my experiance rear sway bars have usually given the one best improvement in handling w/o much downside. Previously I've gone w/ some significantly larger/stiffer bars and bushings and the one downside is a harsher thump when taking a speedbump or driveway entrance at an angle as one wheel is forced up in contrast to the other causing a lot of torque on the bar. In the case of the LS I suppose the rear 'sport 14mm' bar is sufficiently compliant enough that even w/ the polyurethane bushings there is little to no discernable bump thump added. As for the front bushing upgrade I note zero increase in harshness, just better turn-in response and better steering wheel centering.
So I gotta say if you are in pursuit of better handling while keeping in the spirit of a daily drive 'luxury' vehicle, this $50 mod is must.
Now on to the next biggest impact on handling, but w/ possibly large downsides. Wheels and tires. Hope I did my research well for fitment, comfy ride and low noise 'cause the the wheels and 245/45/18s are coming next week. And guess what, they are Max performance summer tires
.
03-19-11, 09:14 AM
#39
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
... Now on to the next biggest impact on handling, but w/ possibly large downsides. Wheels and tires. Hope I did my research well for fitment, comfy ride and low noise 'cause the the wheels and 245/45/18s are coming next week. And guess what, they are Max performance summer tires.
.
03-19-11, 09:58 AM
#40
Pole Position
"Handling" is a very broad term to describe a lot of interaction. To some, handling only means ultimate grip/lateral Gs. To others it's more about responsiveness.
Generating higher Gs around a corner with less tire squeal can be managed by adding rubber and keeping it in better contact with the road, but as mentioned this usually has compromises and might not be what someone's after anyway. Sometimes a given platform will have room for improvement but it's harder to find with a well-engineered suspension without changing the character of the car more than might be desired. Responsiveness and tightness is often more related to areas where forces change direction and the resulting interface at bushings.
Generating higher Gs around a corner with less tire squeal can be managed by adding rubber and keeping it in better contact with the road, but as mentioned this usually has compromises and might not be what someone's after anyway. Sometimes a given platform will have room for improvement but it's harder to find with a well-engineered suspension without changing the character of the car more than might be desired. Responsiveness and tightness is often more related to areas where forces change direction and the resulting interface at bushings.
03-19-11, 11:56 AM
#42
Here: http://www.tmengineering.net/suspens...n/make/ls.html, but read my post #24 from above for the exact item and the fact that it took some modification to fit the rear bushings.
03-19-11, 12:17 PM
#43
Geez, I must have spent about 24 hrs in all looking just at wheels. I was really leaning toward the simplicity of bolting on GS 18" chrome OE replicas, but settled on Effects 'Zone' 18x8 40 offset chrome wheels. I was thinking of choosing by weight (lighter), but the thinner spoke types didn't seem to jive w/ the LS so I just chose by looks.
However, the shipping notice indicates that each package of two wheels are 45lbs. a piece so hoping for single wheel weights to be in the very low twenties. As I hear the stock 18s are close to 27lbs. I might get a four to five lb. reduction in unsprung weight per corner despite the 1 lb. heavier 245/45/18 compared to the 225/55/17 Primacys.
However, the shipping notice indicates that each package of two wheels are 45lbs. a piece so hoping for single wheel weights to be in the very low twenties. As I hear the stock 18s are close to 27lbs. I might get a four to five lb. reduction in unsprung weight per corner despite the 1 lb. heavier 245/45/18 compared to the 225/55/17 Primacys.
03-21-11, 05:37 PM
#44
Wish I saw this thread earlier as I know everything about this topic, as I have done everything 
Looks like you got what you want already, the OEM sport rear sway does make a decent amount of differences.
Next you can do the OEM sport shocks.......you don't have to use the OEM sport springs, but if you pair your regular spring with the sport shock, the ride would be even firmer then the sport edition car, which might be too firm for you. I got Tanabe NF210 lowering springs on my car with the OEM sport shocks, it feels perfect for my needs, but this needs is very subjective.
The last thing I like to point out is, the stock sport edition car also got firmer A-arm bushings, if you check the A-arm, they got a different part #. I don't want that bushing though, as I felt the stock sport edition car is getting too harsh for me. I prefer my regular A-arm bushings. Sport shocks/springs/sway bar with regular soft bushing is perfect, better handling without the harshness from the harder bushings.
Hope that help.
Looks like you got what you want already, the OEM sport rear sway does make a decent amount of differences.
Next you can do the OEM sport shocks.......you don't have to use the OEM sport springs, but if you pair your regular spring with the sport shock, the ride would be even firmer then the sport edition car, which might be too firm for you. I got Tanabe NF210 lowering springs on my car with the OEM sport shocks, it feels perfect for my needs, but this needs is very subjective.
The last thing I like to point out is, the stock sport edition car also got firmer A-arm bushings, if you check the A-arm, they got a different part #. I don't want that bushing though, as I felt the stock sport edition car is getting too harsh for me. I prefer my regular A-arm bushings. Sport shocks/springs/sway bar with regular soft bushing is perfect, better handling without the harshness from the harder bushings.
Hope that help.
The following users liked this post:
Ogun360 (01-27-21)
03-21-11, 05:48 PM
#45
The last upgrade available is, TRD Japan does make some even bigger sway bars for the LS430.
The rear is:
OEM regular: 13mm
OEM sport: 14mm
TRD: 15mm
The front is the same size, both OEM and TRD are 27mm, I am guessing the OEM is hallow while the TRD are solid, which makes it 20% stiffer I think.
The rear is:
OEM regular: 13mm
OEM sport: 14mm
TRD: 15mm
The front is the same size, both OEM and TRD are 27mm, I am guessing the OEM is hallow while the TRD are solid, which makes it 20% stiffer I think.