Are these cars REALLY that reliable?
07-18-11, 07:52 PM
#31
I have my LS for almost three years now. Right from the start many issues were dealt with when I looked at service history of it. I got the car with 85k, now there is 106k on it.
List of what I've done:
Repairs/Maintenance (all OEM dealer parts):
1. Two top O2 sensors - ~$200 each inc. labor
2. All new tires - $1200 inc. labor
3. New rotors and pads all around - $500 inc. labor
4. Timing Belt/Water Pump + all pulleys, pre-tensioner + necessary seals - $1150 inc. labor
5.Spark plugs - $120 inc. labor
6. Transmission shifter seal - $40 inc. labor
7. Steering rack bushings - $200 inc. labor
8. Front lower control arm rear bushings - $270 inc. labor
9. 4 Oil changes ~$60 each
10. Serpentine belt - $100 inc. labor.
11. Valve cover gaskets, both sides - $620 inc. labor (done at the dealer)
12. Re-calibrated yaw sensor - $230 (done at the dealer)
Total: $5070, but somewhere close to $5.3k with all tips and misc. minor stuff.
Changes I wanted to make:
1. Viper 5900 Alarm+Remote Start - $350 inc. labor
2. New front speakers/additional amp/new aftermarket sub/dynamatt + all labor - $420
Total: $770
So I spent $6k on the car in 2.5 years. But, I could've not done half of the stuff, used cheap aftermarket parts and still have a drivable car. However I do care about my car and most repairs are done "once and for long". Nothing continuously breaks on this car, it just requires expensive maintenance. Having said that, there are some common "child" issues with LS430: mirrors, speakers and steering column being the most common, other issues vary depending on use and conditions where vehicle resides.
I want my car to be the best that it possibly can by doing all necessary stuff needed and when people sit and ride in it , they ask whether this car is new. That is music my ears
List of what I've done:
Repairs/Maintenance (all OEM dealer parts):
1. Two top O2 sensors - ~$200 each inc. labor
2. All new tires - $1200 inc. labor
3. New rotors and pads all around - $500 inc. labor
4. Timing Belt/Water Pump + all pulleys, pre-tensioner + necessary seals - $1150 inc. labor
5.Spark plugs - $120 inc. labor
6. Transmission shifter seal - $40 inc. labor
7. Steering rack bushings - $200 inc. labor
8. Front lower control arm rear bushings - $270 inc. labor
9. 4 Oil changes ~$60 each
10. Serpentine belt - $100 inc. labor.
11. Valve cover gaskets, both sides - $620 inc. labor (done at the dealer)
12. Re-calibrated yaw sensor - $230 (done at the dealer)
Total: $5070, but somewhere close to $5.3k with all tips and misc. minor stuff.
Changes I wanted to make:
1. Viper 5900 Alarm+Remote Start - $350 inc. labor
2. New front speakers/additional amp/new aftermarket sub/dynamatt + all labor - $420
Total: $770
So I spent $6k on the car in 2.5 years. But, I could've not done half of the stuff, used cheap aftermarket parts and still have a drivable car. However I do care about my car and most repairs are done "once and for long". Nothing continuously breaks on this car, it just requires expensive maintenance. Having said that, there are some common "child" issues with LS430: mirrors, speakers and steering column being the most common, other issues vary depending on use and conditions where vehicle resides.
I want my car to be the best that it possibly can by doing all necessary stuff needed and when people sit and ride in it , they ask whether this car is new. That is music my ears
07-19-11, 04:39 AM
#33
07-19-11, 04:48 AM
#34
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I have my LS for almost three years now. Right from the start many issues were dealt with when I looked at service history of it. I got the car with 85k, now there is 106k on it.
List of what I've done:
Repairs/Maintenance (all OEM dealer parts):
1. Two top O2 sensors - ~$200 each inc. labor
2. All new tires - $1200 inc. labor
3. New rotors and pads all around - $500 inc. labor
4. Timing Belt/Water Pump + all pulleys, pre-tensioner + necessary seals - $1150 inc. labor
5.Spark plugs - $120 inc. labor
6. Transmission shifter seal - $40 inc. labor
7. Steering rack bushings - $200 inc. labor
8. Front lower control arm rear bushings - $270 inc. labor
9. 4 Oil changes ~$60 each
10. Serpentine belt - $100 inc. labor.
11. Valve cover gaskets, both sides - $620 inc. labor (done at the dealer)
12. Re-calibrated yaw sensor - $230 (done at the dealer)
Total: $5070, but somewhere close to $5.3k with all tips and misc. minor stuff.
Changes I wanted to make:
1. Viper 5900 Alarm+Remote Start - $350 inc. labor
2. New front speakers/additional amp/new aftermarket sub/dynamatt + all labor - $420
Total: $770
So I spent $6k on the car in 2.5 years. But, I could've not done half of the stuff, used cheap aftermarket parts and still have a drivable car. However I do care about my car and most repairs are done "once and for long". Nothing continuously breaks on this car, it just requires expensive maintenance. Having said that, there are some common "child" issues with LS430: mirrors, speakers and steering column being the most common, other issues vary depending on use and conditions where vehicle resides.
I want my car to be the best that it possibly can by doing all necessary stuff needed and when people sit and ride in it , they ask whether this car is new. That is music my ears
List of what I've done:
Repairs/Maintenance (all OEM dealer parts):
1. Two top O2 sensors - ~$200 each inc. labor
2. All new tires - $1200 inc. labor
3. New rotors and pads all around - $500 inc. labor
4. Timing Belt/Water Pump + all pulleys, pre-tensioner + necessary seals - $1150 inc. labor
5.Spark plugs - $120 inc. labor
6. Transmission shifter seal - $40 inc. labor
7. Steering rack bushings - $200 inc. labor
8. Front lower control arm rear bushings - $270 inc. labor
9. 4 Oil changes ~$60 each
10. Serpentine belt - $100 inc. labor.
11. Valve cover gaskets, both sides - $620 inc. labor (done at the dealer)
12. Re-calibrated yaw sensor - $230 (done at the dealer)
Total: $5070, but somewhere close to $5.3k with all tips and misc. minor stuff.
Changes I wanted to make:
1. Viper 5900 Alarm+Remote Start - $350 inc. labor
2. New front speakers/additional amp/new aftermarket sub/dynamatt + all labor - $420
Total: $770
So I spent $6k on the car in 2.5 years. But, I could've not done half of the stuff, used cheap aftermarket parts and still have a drivable car. However I do care about my car and most repairs are done "once and for long". Nothing continuously breaks on this car, it just requires expensive maintenance. Having said that, there are some common "child" issues with LS430: mirrors, speakers and steering column being the most common, other issues vary depending on use and conditions where vehicle resides.
I want my car to be the best that it possibly can by doing all necessary stuff needed and when people sit and ride in it , they ask whether this car is new. That is music my ears
07-19-11, 05:28 AM
#35
When I read a steering rack bushings thread on CL I compared my cars' symptoms to those posted and they matched.
Steering rack bushings made a huge difference in car handling, steering became nice and tight, I don't feel the bumps in my steering wheel any more.
The front lower control arm bushings had big nasty cracks in them, so I decided to play safe and not give it more time to screw up something else in the front suspension.
07-19-11, 07:00 AM
#36
note on the boots and bushings: I check mine almost every oil change while my car is in the air a bit. I usually find small bits of grit, dirt, bits of rock gravel resting in the grooves of the boots or the bushings on all suspension and moving parts. try to keep those babies clean. that can cause premature wear as much movement these parts have on a daily basis - it will definately help them last longer.
10-17-11, 03:27 PM
#37
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I believe my '90 LS (300K miles) and '99 LS (210K miles) are the most reliable cars I've ever owned (and I've owned over 30 cars since high school).
HOWEVER, because these cars are so nice when new, I believe that many owners tend to notice (and repair) even the smallest things that go wrong (I know I do). Whereas with a lesser car, they would just let it slide - or never even notice the occasional sweak.
And - as has been noted already - these cars have a boat-load of features that many other cars don't have (how many other '90 models had memory mirrors?). And the later the model, the more gadgets they have... and thus there's more to break.
But it's a shame that Lexus felt compelled to move up-market to compete with the S-class Merc. Their original target for the LS was the E400 Merc, which they blew out of the water cost and feature wise. But just adding features does not an S-class make, and more recently, Lexus may indeed have compromised a bit of quality for features.
Not perfect, but nothing mechanical ever is...
DT
HOWEVER, because these cars are so nice when new, I believe that many owners tend to notice (and repair) even the smallest things that go wrong (I know I do). Whereas with a lesser car, they would just let it slide - or never even notice the occasional sweak.
And - as has been noted already - these cars have a boat-load of features that many other cars don't have (how many other '90 models had memory mirrors?). And the later the model, the more gadgets they have... and thus there's more to break.
But it's a shame that Lexus felt compelled to move up-market to compete with the S-class Merc. Their original target for the LS was the E400 Merc, which they blew out of the water cost and feature wise. But just adding features does not an S-class make, and more recently, Lexus may indeed have compromised a bit of quality for features.
Not perfect, but nothing mechanical ever is...
DT
10-17-11, 03:43 PM
#38
Moderator
The constant march of added technology has come back to bite both MB and BMW - the cars are so loaded with computers that some small electrical glitch can render the car completely inoperable. There have been multiple reports of owners replacing the battery in a late model MB without following a very precise sequence of instructions/steps and frying thousand dollars worth of computer chips and completely bricking their car. Unfortunately Lexus seems to be following the lead.
And btw this technology dependence and inherent frailty of these systems just gets worse with hybrids. Hybrids are packed with a raised floor load of integrated and networked computers. I have read about one model having approx 300 integrated processor chips in it. . A serious electrical glitch and your entire car is fried. Get a close lightning strike in one of these and your new car is totaled. It will be a long time before these hybrid cars make any real economic sense in terms of total cost of ownership.
I'll keep my relatively low tech LS430 for a long time. I am more than happy to pay a little extra for lowly 19-20 mpg average.
And btw this technology dependence and inherent frailty of these systems just gets worse with hybrids. Hybrids are packed with a raised floor load of integrated and networked computers. I have read about one model having approx 300 integrated processor chips in it. . A serious electrical glitch and your entire car is fried. Get a close lightning strike in one of these and your new car is totaled. It will be a long time before these hybrid cars make any real economic sense in terms of total cost of ownership.
I'll keep my relatively low tech LS430 for a long time. I am more than happy to pay a little extra for lowly 19-20 mpg average.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 10-17-11 at 03:53 PM.
10-17-11, 04:40 PM
#39
I totally believe in consumer reports as other cars I have had they hit right on the head. The electronics and sound system had a average rating for repairs unlike the glowing red circles on other part of the LS. You folks want the gadgets you have to pay for em in BMW, Benz, Jags, VW, Infinity, Cadillac luxury luxury line. I got my LS from the auction, the auction. I saw all the reciepts to 55k on my premium model(left in the glovbox called the prev owner) and have all the reciepts since with oil change every 5 k and good not meticulous maintenance and still most out of ordinary thing in my car is windshield replace form a crack. 147k 2 sets of brakes, third set of tires little wax, touch up paint that is it. Still the same plgs and she drives as the day I bought er. I will not do without the smart key, my Premium stereo is fine, nice 9 way seats, climate control dual, stab trac, trac control. Door closures, air shocks, super powered stereo, glad I do not have em. Just sticking up for my gal plan on driving her to 200 k and beyond she is still such a tight ride. How many of you with problems have had it since day one, or seen all the reciepts? There are so few "issues" on this forum compared to the others it is laughable. I have sat in on some looking for a sportier ride but decided I do not need the headaches other car forums are caught up in. This car is written over and over again in the media as a solid car, sorry you got mistreated cars or went with the gadgets that failed.
10-17-11, 07:18 PM
#40
There is no doubt in my mind that the 1998-2000 LS400, along with the 1998-2006 LX470 are far and away the most reliable, rock solid cars Toyota has ever produced... period. My friend's step-dad has a 2004 LX470 he bought new with 320,000 miles. With nothing other than scheduled service visits and a steering lock replacement, the truck runs and looks like the day it was brand new. Toyota (and most other companies) just built to a higher standard back in those days.
Much like Mercedes-Benz famed fall from grace in the late 1990s and into the late 2000s, Toyota also quietly slid and slid in both fit and finish and reliability issues after those high points. Our first 2004 LS430 needed wheel bearings of all things right at 92k miles when we first got it. The power steering was already somewhat noisy at that point, which connects that LS430 with the one we just got at 70k miles. That one has the same noisy power steering (fluid is black because Toyota can't find it in their right minds to spec fluid changes here at appropriate intervals), the same finicky transmission problem that plagued ALL 2004s, a 1200rpm vibration I haven't tracked down yet, the adaptive cruise isn't working, and one or two speakers are blown. All in all fairly unacceptable for a car that I have the entire service history on, all the way up to just before the car was sold. In fact, both of these cars were serviced absolutely by the book, which is something that is often recommended here but doesn't seem to matter for all the issues that typically break on these cars.
The telescope motor failures in particular are funny to me, because my 2001 Cadillac STS, a car that one would consider a hideous measuring stick of mechanical reliability, actually has flawless electrically motorized parts. I've never been afraid to use and over-use the steering wheel tilt even at 140k. The Bose system certainly has no blown speakers (and sounds 10 times better than the ML even when the ML is working).
So it is all relative, and do I believe the LS430 is "not leave you on the side of the road" reliable? Ehh... I suppose so, but I agree that that isn't necessarily a fair measure to call a car faultless. These do have a lot of common issues so as long as things are kept in perspective, I think we can all agree they are excellent vehicles compared to others in their respective category. Bottom line, these cars are a bargain for what you pay, but 70k car maintenance doesn't change just because you paid 20.
Much like Mercedes-Benz famed fall from grace in the late 1990s and into the late 2000s, Toyota also quietly slid and slid in both fit and finish and reliability issues after those high points. Our first 2004 LS430 needed wheel bearings of all things right at 92k miles when we first got it. The power steering was already somewhat noisy at that point, which connects that LS430 with the one we just got at 70k miles. That one has the same noisy power steering (fluid is black because Toyota can't find it in their right minds to spec fluid changes here at appropriate intervals), the same finicky transmission problem that plagued ALL 2004s, a 1200rpm vibration I haven't tracked down yet, the adaptive cruise isn't working, and one or two speakers are blown. All in all fairly unacceptable for a car that I have the entire service history on, all the way up to just before the car was sold. In fact, both of these cars were serviced absolutely by the book, which is something that is often recommended here but doesn't seem to matter for all the issues that typically break on these cars.
The telescope motor failures in particular are funny to me, because my 2001 Cadillac STS, a car that one would consider a hideous measuring stick of mechanical reliability, actually has flawless electrically motorized parts. I've never been afraid to use and over-use the steering wheel tilt even at 140k. The Bose system certainly has no blown speakers (and sounds 10 times better than the ML even when the ML is working).
So it is all relative, and do I believe the LS430 is "not leave you on the side of the road" reliable? Ehh... I suppose so, but I agree that that isn't necessarily a fair measure to call a car faultless. These do have a lot of common issues so as long as things are kept in perspective, I think we can all agree they are excellent vehicles compared to others in their respective category. Bottom line, these cars are a bargain for what you pay, but 70k car maintenance doesn't change just because you paid 20.
Last edited by Playdrv4me; 10-17-11 at 07:28 PM.
10-17-11, 09:40 PM
#42
I should also note that from my understanding, the LS460 has even more issues than the 430. So these are still pretty stout cars.
10-17-11, 09:49 PM
#43
The 430 is very reliable but from my recent battery dying abruptly issue, it sure can strand you if it dies at the wrong place at the wrong time. still though, I'd put the 430's reliability up against anythng else.
10-18-11, 01:17 PM
#44
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lol cuz usedcars.about.com report said so...
http://usedcars.about.com/od/researc...S-430-2005.htm
but i agree with most. when you quote the LS line to be reliable . reliability should be in conjunction to a certain standard. and the standard you use to compare would be other fullsize luxury vehicles. i personally go on forums for DIY fixing and working on my car and i also post whenever i need help or theres a problem. its normal to find many others post when they have problems arise, this car isnt bulletproof , reliable is a comparison.
your point: any electronics can die and have problems. even your computer harddrive will die after it spins its lifespan. use it more, it will break.
the drivetrain of this vehicle as everyone says is reliable, when has your car ever became unable to drive? have you compared this car to bmws? benz? im sure the electronics on those cars break too after longtime use but their engine components break even on the newest models. thats where this car differs.
im not biased becuz i just bought the car thsi year. in fact 2 of my parking sensors needs replacing now. 160k. i put 12k on it now and my car is driving smooth quiet pulls strong. no complaints. i have a nissan 240sx very basic car. no major repairs i have ever done on it, only work i do are additional mods like bolt on turbo and suspension mods but i would say its the most reliable toy sport car you can have, 4 years owning one, bouncing on redline once a month at track days and daily driving in summer. i wont be saying its same WORD reliable to compare my 240 to my ls430 if i treated it the same but no doubt ls430 so far for me is reliable.
http://usedcars.about.com/od/researc...S-430-2005.htm
but i agree with most. when you quote the LS line to be reliable . reliability should be in conjunction to a certain standard. and the standard you use to compare would be other fullsize luxury vehicles. i personally go on forums for DIY fixing and working on my car and i also post whenever i need help or theres a problem. its normal to find many others post when they have problems arise, this car isnt bulletproof , reliable is a comparison.
your point: any electronics can die and have problems. even your computer harddrive will die after it spins its lifespan. use it more, it will break.
the drivetrain of this vehicle as everyone says is reliable, when has your car ever became unable to drive? have you compared this car to bmws? benz? im sure the electronics on those cars break too after longtime use but their engine components break even on the newest models. thats where this car differs.
im not biased becuz i just bought the car thsi year. in fact 2 of my parking sensors needs replacing now. 160k. i put 12k on it now and my car is driving smooth quiet pulls strong. no complaints. i have a nissan 240sx very basic car. no major repairs i have ever done on it, only work i do are additional mods like bolt on turbo and suspension mods but i would say its the most reliable toy sport car you can have, 4 years owning one, bouncing on redline once a month at track days and daily driving in summer. i wont be saying its same WORD reliable to compare my 240 to my ls430 if i treated it the same but no doubt ls430 so far for me is reliable.
Last edited by LucidSnow; 10-18-11 at 01:21 PM.
10-18-11, 01:45 PM
#45
I don't understand. Does anyone expect any machine to work in a hostile environment (outdoors) with huge temperature fluctuations and other environmental factors and not need to be maintained? Things on moving vehicles are going break, loosen up and wear out with use.
If the LS model has more going wrong with it than a Camry, it makes sense because of all the extra stuff in it. More stuff, more things to break. But we like that stuff or we would have a Camry.
I'll tell you this. In the reliability deprtment, I'll take my 2004 LS over any 2004 German equivalent. Ask the BMW and Mercedes owners how thier 2004 cars are doing... you know why they won't be able to tell you? Because the majority of those guys have moved on to newer models....that are under warranty, So they can fix everything going wrong with them.
So far, i've had to do the trany recall, mirror switch, clean out the catch on the cup holder (bad design there) and redo the rims... that powder coat they use SUCKS... but that's it. Oh wait... trunk shocks wore out... easy fix on ebay...40 bucks I think. Now that's it.
Want I should list the things that went wrong with my previous car? A 1995 Impala SS? You wouldn't have the time to read the list. It would have volumes and it's own section in the library.
Same thing with my friend's 750 iL. More like the ultimate breaking machine. (I look forward to your letters BMW owners
)
So all in all, in my limited experience my ownership of this car has been practically worry and repair free. Not bad for a 7 year old thqat gets driven by someone not any more mature than the car's age.
If the LS model has more going wrong with it than a Camry, it makes sense because of all the extra stuff in it. More stuff, more things to break. But we like that stuff or we would have a Camry.
I'll tell you this. In the reliability deprtment, I'll take my 2004 LS over any 2004 German equivalent. Ask the BMW and Mercedes owners how thier 2004 cars are doing... you know why they won't be able to tell you? Because the majority of those guys have moved on to newer models....that are under warranty, So they can fix everything going wrong with them.
So far, i've had to do the trany recall, mirror switch, clean out the catch on the cup holder (bad design there) and redo the rims... that powder coat they use SUCKS... but that's it. Oh wait... trunk shocks wore out... easy fix on ebay...40 bucks I think. Now that's it.
Want I should list the things that went wrong with my previous car? A 1995 Impala SS? You wouldn't have the time to read the list. It would have volumes and it's own section in the library.
Same thing with my friend's 750 iL. More like the ultimate breaking machine. (I look forward to your letters BMW owners
)So all in all, in my limited experience my ownership of this car has been practically worry and repair free. Not bad for a 7 year old thqat gets driven by someone not any more mature than the car's age.