zrhapp

I've owned a 1993 SC 400 for 12 years, stored it winters, and now sold it last week. Was a great vehicle, but I am ready to move on. In 06 I bought a 2000 LX 470. Again, it's been a great vehicle, now has 110,000 miles, and I will keep it 5-10 more years when it will probably have 150,000 miles.
Now I want a newer 2nd car. I live in MN, so winters are ALWAYS cold, and sometimes snowy, like last year. I was originally going to get another sports car, but 99% of them are too small for me since I'm 6'3" and 240 lbs. And again, I'd have to store it, and it would really suck from November thru March to make payments on a car I can't drive.

So now here I am driving all kinds of cars over the last 2 months.

My biggest 1st demand is comfortable seats and leg room. All the above fit that profile. Unfortunately the GS 300 and GS 350 are way too tight or they'd be in this discussion. What is with that hump by the drivers right leg coming out of the center console?? This would be the perfect car with 4 inches of more leg room and no hump.

Sorry for the length but now onto the cars I'm considering

1. 04-05 Lexus LS 430: Pros: brand has been FANTASTIC TO ME SO FAR and I think the LS will be plenty reliable going forward. Interior is 1st class. The ride is very smooth and quiet. Maybe too smooth and quiet to bring me to the point of a little too sedate of a drive. BTW I'm 39, going on 40, and this can have a bit of a feeling like it's a Grandpa car. The power delivery is seamless and cornering is not too bad. A little body roll but liveable. I could certainly say it's the most comfortable vehicle of the 4, but just misses some of that sporty feel. Since I keep my cars a long time, 5-10 plus years, i think the Lexus would probably have the lower overall repair costs, so is it worth giving up some of that sport driving feel for reliability????? The one I'm serious about is and 05 black/black with 62,000 miles. Very clean too.

2. Cons: RWD in MN. Snow tires would be another 800+ in cost I would like to avoid, and maybe not necessary since I'll have the LX 470 for the deep snow days until the roads are plowed. In reality I probably put my SUV in 4wd 15 times last year and it was easily the snowiest winter in MN in 10 or 20 years. So, while the ground clearance helps a lot, I am mainly driving it RWD most of the winter. Should the LS be that much different after the roads are plowed???

Now the others:
1. Mercedes E Class 500 4 matic. Vehicle fits me like a glove. Very good mix of luxury and sport. Almost fits perfectly between an LS 430 (luxury) and BMW 530xi (errs too sporty).
4 matic would be the biggest pro of this car for winter driving. But I'm afraid to own one off warranty as they seem to be the most trouble prone of the 4 I'm looking at. A ton of reviews with suspension and electrical problems.

2. Bmw 530xi. Harder to find in MN with low miles, and they still go for $25,000 to $35,000 even if they're up in the 70k mile range. Again scared to own out of warranty, but probably THE MOST FUN TO DRIVE vehicle of the 4.

3. Audi A6. See quite a few of these up here in the mid 20s. Again, reliability and maintenance are scary once out of warranty. Seems more sporty and closer to the 530xi than the LS 430.
The quattro may be the best AWS system out there from what I've read.

So do you guys have any comments or suggestions I should look or think about?? Very excited to get a new vehicle but want to do as much homework to not end up with buyers remorse. thanks, dave

mndaves

Hi Dave:

First off, welcome to CL! You'll find there are lots of great people here with tremendous car knowledge. Browse through the older threads and you'll see numerous discussions on winter driving, tires, etc.

Second, as you can see, you're not the only Dave on here from MN...

Now to your question about the LS in snow... As you might expect, you'll get varying opinions, but we have had our LS for three winters now and have had NO problems with the snow. We don't put snow tires on and were on OEM Dunlops until last fall when we replaced them with Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires we bought through Lexus of Maplewood. The tires are great - quiet, smooth, and have great traction in snow and rain.

One caveat to my opinion - since I'm rapidly approaching 50 I grew up driving RWD cars without all the gizmos available today (traction control, etc.) so I've never had a problem driving RWD in the MN snow. Also, the car is pushing 4,000 pounds so the weight helps.

I've never driven the other vehicles so I can't compare them but I will say you can't go wrong with the LS.

Again, welcome to CL and enjoy your car search! Dave

Jabberwock

All wheel drive is best in the snow and ice - but the maint and repairs on complex vehicles like MB and BMW is gonna be expensive. Get one with an extended warranty and you will be OK. Or get an LS and have one of the most reliable luxury cars ever made - just beware that's its 2rwd and pretty low to the ground. Not an ideal winter driving car by any stretch of imagination. Also be aware that not everybody is happy with the seats in the LS. They adjust in a million ways but there are complaints about lack of padding. Volvo S60 seats for example are more comfortable than my LS430.

warminwisc

The LS you can put many many miles on without repair costs. Others are sporty and just expect to repair them. I certainly liked the 535 xi when I drove it.

zrhapp

Yeah those 35 series BMW engines have had all kinds of problems with the high pressure fuel pumps. I think BMW warrantied them to 120k miles now, but still a pita for someone spending $60k+ for a new car. A very fun and nice car to drive however. If i were going to drive something for 3-4 years and move on, the German vehicles might be worth it. But I tend to be a 5-10 year owner. I'm probably going to finance part of my car for 3 or 4 years, and that is where I don't want a big repair bill. If something happens in year 5-10, it's somewhat expected, and not that big of a deal since there will be no current monthly car payment. Anyway, I don't have a fear of owning an 05 Lexus off warranty, and if something happens, I can live with the peace of mind that I made the best decision to buy something that gave me the best chance at reliability. Now if I buy a Merc, Audi, or BImmer and have a big repair bill in years 1-3, I'm going to be mad that I didn't listen to myself earlier. That is the buyers remorse I want to avoid big time. One other thing is my mechanic, whom I know well, and trust greatly, said NOT to buy an extended warranty. There is too much they don't cover, and they deny payment on 80% of the claims sent into the anyway.

CarGuy89

Don't get hung up on the age thing for the LS430. I turned 22 in Aug (had the LS for a bit more than a yr now) and I absolutely love the car. It makes an excellent daily driver and has been hugely reliable. However, if you're looking for sportiness, you may want to try to locate one with sports suspension option (or invest in a nice set of coils down the road).

The biggest pro (for me) is that the 430 makes me a much more responsible driver b/c it soothes and relaxes me, prompting me to cruise (as opposed to my 3 series I had before this car which made me want to clip the apex of every corner).

The 5 series is an excellent choice as well. My parents have one and it drives beautifully. The steering is very precise and sharp, body roll is pretty much non-existent (esp compared to the LS). The 5 has been very reliable (but we have a 528xi). 530xi's seem to be pretty solid as well.

Don't know too much about the E class, but I did drive an 06 S500 4 matic and loved it. Only reason why I didn't take that home (along with the BMW 7) was that it started giving me error messages on the test drive!! It was like a <10 min drive...there was nothing on the dashboard and I progressively got more warning messages as we drove along. I would be scared to own one out of warranty. Audi sort of strikes me in the same way (a lot electrical issues I hear). My friend has an A4 (which really isn't that electronic heavy) and he's had some costly failures.

Pretty much I highly recommend the 5 series and LS. From my year of LS ownership, you invest about $1k for maintenance at Lexus and that's it. No unexpected trips. The 5 series has been very solid too, requiring nothing else than recommended maintenance. The E class and A6 look great, but seems to be an expensive venture...

Stu

This could happen, but I love it this way

caddyowner

My theory on German cars:

Finely engineered German cars require expensive German engineers to keep them running.

Frankly, you've got an Araco-built LX470, which is a sweet spot for that platform, and could couple that with an 04-06 LS430 which is, IMO, the sweet spot for the LS. To hit the sweet spot for the MB E class, I think you have to go back to about 1981-85.

jwhite4304

Just went through similar decision making and went with the LS 430 for peace of mind down the road and looking to very few problems with the vehicle.

Jimbo

smm3

Not to get off topic but i am Just curious? Did you have a part time kit installed on your LX 470? If not then you are driving a full time 4 wd truck. It's impossible to drive rear wheel drive. I own a 00 land cruiser which Is essentially the same truck minus the AHC.

I would think for long term reliability you would choose the LS. I drove a BMW x5 for 5 years and never had any major problems with it. I did have an extended warranty with it. Love bmws but like you said, would be scared to own one out of warranty.

sojah

iTrader: (1)

knowing the wintry situation i might be more inclined to get a 4wd but it seems you already have one in the lx470.

zrhapp

No, I never changed the 4wd system on the LX. I just assumed it was RWD unless I put it into 4wd. But i realize now I was really just locking the center differential. Feel kinda stupid but oh well. Oh decisions. Still cannot make up my mind about the e500 or ls430. Not a bad problem to have, but stressing none the less.

airtime

If you are planning on using it in snow, then definitely spend the money on snow tires. Otherwise, traction control will kick in pretty often. I personally would go all-wheel drive if I had to drive in the snow daily for piece of mind but in Seattle, even when we get snow, it would only last 3 to 4 days max and melt away. The sheer reliability of the LS will outweigh the other vehicles unless the cars are still in warranty or you have lots of money

Dave (also)

2004TOYO

I dont like LS driving in the snow, I was not happy with it but then you have the LX for that ...... reliability is key for me. My vote goes to the LS

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

I would go with the LS430 personally. Unless you have snow tires, I wouldn't drive it in heavy snow. Most people I talk to seem to have trouble in the snow with their LS/GS or other rear wheel drive cars. It's probably the fact they don't have good snow tires, but i don't know for sure.