last plea for advice i swear
05-15-12, 10:19 PM
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
last plea for advice i swear
ok so i know i just posted a thread asking about a car but that one is no longer in the running and i've found one i'm 99% sold on just wanted to run it by you guys.
sorry for the clutter i promise this is the last one i'll ask about!
its a 2004 LS 430 with modern luxury package and 91K miles.
lowest i could get them to was 19,998 + tax and title.
it has been very well maintained looked to be in perfect condition, the only downside is that it hasn't had its 100K mile service yet and will need the timing belt replaced in about 10K miles.
i tried to get them to either do the service for me or take $1500 off the price but they wouldn't budge.
what do you think about the deal and anyone think i should play hardball with them till they throw the service in?
the sales manager tried to tell me he paid 17K for the car and after conditioning was into the car for 19,600.
i called BS on him but he showed me some sales receipt showing he paid 17K (obv it could be fake how the hell would i know, but that was their position and so they were refusing to deal at all on the car).
also last question, which is the best ipod unit for the that model of navigation as i need to get something so i can hook up my ipod.
i know about vais tech but didn't know if that was the only option and if so which model of theirs would be best for that year navi unit (i think its gen 4) i dont' watch movies or any kindv video just need audio.
thanks for any feedback.
cheers.
sorry for the clutter i promise this is the last one i'll ask about!
its a 2004 LS 430 with modern luxury package and 91K miles.
lowest i could get them to was 19,998 + tax and title.
it has been very well maintained looked to be in perfect condition, the only downside is that it hasn't had its 100K mile service yet and will need the timing belt replaced in about 10K miles.
i tried to get them to either do the service for me or take $1500 off the price but they wouldn't budge.
what do you think about the deal and anyone think i should play hardball with them till they throw the service in?
the sales manager tried to tell me he paid 17K for the car and after conditioning was into the car for 19,600.
i called BS on him but he showed me some sales receipt showing he paid 17K (obv it could be fake how the hell would i know, but that was their position and so they were refusing to deal at all on the car).
also last question, which is the best ipod unit for the that model of navigation as i need to get something so i can hook up my ipod.
i know about vais tech but didn't know if that was the only option and if so which model of theirs would be best for that year navi unit (i think its gen 4) i dont' watch movies or any kindv video just need audio.
thanks for any feedback.
cheers.
05-16-12, 06:12 AM
#2
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Well the timing belt and water pump service is actually a 90k service so really it should have already been done, something that may help with your case. Is this a dealer your talking to cause if so I would assume that they would do all the required service before the car was sold and that should be a given. Also, I have a USA Spec iPod adapter which I am extremely happy with and although Vais Tech apparently has more features I have never had any problems with this adapter and have never needed anything more from it. It allows me to select playlists from the Nav screen as well as use all the steering wheel controls. Along with this it lets me plug in an auxiliary cable so my phone or whatever else can be plugged in.
05-16-12, 07:02 AM
#3
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Well the timing belt and water pump service is actually a 90k service so really it should have already been done, something that may help with your case. Is this a dealer your talking to cause if so I would assume that they would do all the required service before the car was sold and that should be a given. Also, I have a USA Spec iPod adapter which I am extremely happy with and although Vais Tech apparently has more features I have never had any problems with this adapter and have never needed anything more from it. It allows me to select playlists from the Nav screen as well as use all the steering wheel controls. Along with this it lets me plug in an auxiliary cable so my phone or whatever else can be plugged in.
Last edited by user 820442; 05-16-12 at 07:08 AM.
05-16-12, 04:54 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
With 91K miles, the car is 1,000 miles over the 90K service, at which point the timing belt is supposed to be changed. A dealer owing a car that is 1K over the required service and refusing to do it? Wouldn't want this to be my dealer. Don't think I'd want to buy a car from him either. Just my opinion.
05-16-12, 07:54 PM
#7
The timing belt service is due at 90k. Also do the water pump w/ O-ring, radiator hoses, coolant, timing belt tensioner, t-belt pulleys, serpentine belt. IIRC, on my LX (basically the same engine as the LS), I bought landcruiser parts wholesale from a toyota dealer (around $500) and the labor ran about $900 for everything (free since I accumulated enough points on my lexus visa to pay for it all for free). So it's a non-trivial expense. Don't believe it when shops say they can do it for $300. No way!
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05-16-12, 08:30 PM
#8
Moderator
The seller isn't going to pay for the TB/WP service or give you a $1500 discount if they can sell the car soon to someone else at the current asking price. Also what the seller paid for the car is 100% irrelevant - if they paid too much that's their problem.
Here is the reality of any used car sales situation - the seller wants you to think that other buyers are coming in to buy the car very soon so he doesn't have to give you a discount. He wants you to think you need to pay his asking price or you will lose the car. At the same time the seller knows they have a rapidly depreciating asset on the lot that is costing them money every week it sits unsold. And its a high mile high dollar used car with a somewhat limited appeal. So in reality you may be the only serious buyer for the LS that the seller has had any contact with in quite - but he will keep that a secret.
In the average every day used car transaction the buyer has to realize that their only leverage point and power in the transaction comes from time. The seller wants to sell now this week, this month, as time goes by he loses money and also less and less buyers are interested in an older car.
So a smart buyer always conducts a transaction maximizing their leverage, dealing fairly with the seller, but always negotiating from the power position. The power position works like this - make what you consider a fair offer (do the research on latest market price, cost to do the required services) and make the offer by phone. This happens after you have gone to test drive the car and checked it out on site beforehand. So when you are ready to buy - call them up - ask for the sales manager specifically (not one of the sales people) and make the offer - let's say something like 19500 minus 1500 for TB/WP services so you offer 18,000. So you say this - "I want to make you a firm offer of $18000 plus tax, tag and title drive out price, and not a penny more. My offer is 100% firm and it is good for 48 hours. After that point I will likely be buying a different car at another dealer. So please call me if you want to sell the car immediately and I bring you a check for the exact amount of my offer and you give me the key." Give the sales manager your phone number thank them for their time and hang up. Under no circumstances get into conversation about how much they paid, how high demand is, or any other BS they want to waste time talking about. And its important to not physically go into the dealer and make verbal offer - that significantly decreases your leverage and shows weakness transferring power back to the seller.
In the end if you are making a fair offer at a fair market value and the dealer wants to sell the car immediately they will call you back and accept the offer. Remember they have an immediate firm offer from you and now time is on your side, and all the pressure is on the seller, they must find a buyer willing to pay more or else they lose an immediate sale. If they have other buyers ready and willing to pay above market price then you will not hear back. But you don't want to pay above market so let someone else do that. Another good car will come along - they always do.
People that go into a dealer and spend 3 hours supposedly "negotiating" the price are known as fish in the used car business. The used car guys are experts at maximizing selling price when the fish shows up and is willing to sit in their offices for hours - the huge time commitment just demonstrates to the seller how badly the fish wants the car being negotiated. So all the leverage and power in negotiating the transaction is now with the seller. And the seller has to be in his office at work anyway and is happy for the company of any buyers that want to come sit with him : )
Good luck.
Here is the reality of any used car sales situation - the seller wants you to think that other buyers are coming in to buy the car very soon so he doesn't have to give you a discount. He wants you to think you need to pay his asking price or you will lose the car. At the same time the seller knows they have a rapidly depreciating asset on the lot that is costing them money every week it sits unsold. And its a high mile high dollar used car with a somewhat limited appeal. So in reality you may be the only serious buyer for the LS that the seller has had any contact with in quite - but he will keep that a secret.
In the average every day used car transaction the buyer has to realize that their only leverage point and power in the transaction comes from time. The seller wants to sell now this week, this month, as time goes by he loses money and also less and less buyers are interested in an older car.
So a smart buyer always conducts a transaction maximizing their leverage, dealing fairly with the seller, but always negotiating from the power position. The power position works like this - make what you consider a fair offer (do the research on latest market price, cost to do the required services) and make the offer by phone. This happens after you have gone to test drive the car and checked it out on site beforehand. So when you are ready to buy - call them up - ask for the sales manager specifically (not one of the sales people) and make the offer - let's say something like 19500 minus 1500 for TB/WP services so you offer 18,000. So you say this - "I want to make you a firm offer of $18000 plus tax, tag and title drive out price, and not a penny more. My offer is 100% firm and it is good for 48 hours. After that point I will likely be buying a different car at another dealer. So please call me if you want to sell the car immediately and I bring you a check for the exact amount of my offer and you give me the key." Give the sales manager your phone number thank them for their time and hang up. Under no circumstances get into conversation about how much they paid, how high demand is, or any other BS they want to waste time talking about. And its important to not physically go into the dealer and make verbal offer - that significantly decreases your leverage and shows weakness transferring power back to the seller.
In the end if you are making a fair offer at a fair market value and the dealer wants to sell the car immediately they will call you back and accept the offer. Remember they have an immediate firm offer from you and now time is on your side, and all the pressure is on the seller, they must find a buyer willing to pay more or else they lose an immediate sale. If they have other buyers ready and willing to pay above market price then you will not hear back. But you don't want to pay above market so let someone else do that. Another good car will come along - they always do.
People that go into a dealer and spend 3 hours supposedly "negotiating" the price are known as fish in the used car business. The used car guys are experts at maximizing selling price when the fish shows up and is willing to sit in their offices for hours - the huge time commitment just demonstrates to the seller how badly the fish wants the car being negotiated. So all the leverage and power in negotiating the transaction is now with the seller. And the seller has to be in his office at work anyway and is happy for the company of any buyers that want to come sit with him : )
Good luck.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 05-17-12 at 06:04 AM.
05-17-12, 12:14 PM
#9
Driver School Candidate
Love the psychology of it
Thanks Jabberwock, for that buying lesson. Love it. It seems I don't buy enough cars to get good at it, and fall for the same old tricks all the time. I re-learn it, and then 4-5 years go buy before I buy another, and I have to learn it all over again.
I was looking at trading in a car recently, and was in a dealership. Sure enough, the car I was thinking of BUYING was "very special" and "lots of peole were looking at it" and "it's really in high demand." The car I was SELLING was "hard to turn around" and "not really what people are after around here." I was actually believing all that stuff - under the used car salesperson "spell" for about a day ("Maybe I SHOULD get rid of this thing no one wants!") -- until I snapped out of it and realized - hey I've been hypnotized!!
I certainly also get deeply affected by "this is the ONLY ONE!" mentality. If I don't get this one, I'll never ever find another one!! That attitude tends to cost me quite a bit of money over the years. You don't want to ever believe the car you're looking at is the only one. It's not. And chances are, you'll learn more about what a good deal is the more you look.
But when it comes down to that final decision, however, one also has to factor in CONVENIENCE. Is it the model and color you want? Does it "feel" good when you sit in it? Do you have a family and a job? (meaning time is at a premium?) If so, sometimes paying an extra $1000 is what you have to do - or at least end up doing. It takes a long time to look at cars, and takes a lot of psychological energy. Nowadays, you can find them anywhere in the country, but that involves travel, risk, and transportation costs.
I'll admit I'm not the best negotiator, and when I'm retired, or working part-time, or when the kid grows up a bit I will have more time to look leisurely, compare, and wait - and hopefully improve my skills. But until then, I figure I might get $1000-$1500 less than a perfect deal, and I just have to live with that as part of the "cost of doing business." I work full time and have a 7 year old and it seems like every hour of my life is already "claimed."
For comparison, I recently bought a 2005 LS430 ML/Smartkey - Gold/ - in great shape with 54K miles. It was $22,500 +$200 license fee (to dealer) + tax + $550 to transport from Austin to Denver. Also paid $140 for independent inspection. I had looked for about a month, and that seemed like a good deal to me at the time, but when all was said and done, it was $690 over what a local car would have been
(I'd also come within an inch of buying a Green '04 ML with 101K for $19,5 - 90K service had been done, but it had some interior wear and tear that was obvious.)
I don't think that the car I bought was the best deal ever, and for a few weeks I stressed out about "maybe I didn't get the best deal" and "I should've negotiated harder!" Those are probably true statements, but so what? I made a decision after a month of spending every extra moment looking at cars, trolling CL, and it was affecting my work and family life. I certainly got a reasonable deal. I am not a professional car buyer so I don't do it as well as I might. I am also not a plumber or a drywaller, and so I end up paying $1000's for those services when I could take a few weekends, learn the skills and do that myself also.
Bottom line: if you got the time, take your time. Make that dealer sweat. Keep looking. It's fun to bargain. If you don't have the time, buy it. You'll love it.
One thing that helps me is to think: Is it LOVE or FEAR?
LOVE = I really like THIS particular car. I am attracted to IT. It feels like "the car that was meant for me." This baby feels GOOD!
vs. FEAR = I'm scared that if I don't get this one I'll never find another one. I have to buy it now!!! TODAY!!
If it's LO VE, and you have feelings for the car, that will last a long time. And you will always be happy that you have YOUR car, even if it cost a bit more than others might have.
If it's FEAR, and you buy it because you'll never find another one -- well, actually, you will find another one, and it will be a better deal.
So even if I might have saved some money by buying a different one, I do drive my little gold beauty with some kind of perverse belief that "This car was meant for me! We finally found each other!"
--- Wow, that was long. Guess I had some feelings about that.....hopefully you're not quite as neurotic as I am about it....
In closing, As far as that 90K service - if you're buying from a Lexus dealer, I wonder if there is some kind of middle ground. Would they do it in house for less? Maybe $1G? Might be nice to get that out of the way before you drive it off the lot.
I was looking at trading in a car recently, and was in a dealership. Sure enough, the car I was thinking of BUYING was "very special" and "lots of peole were looking at it" and "it's really in high demand." The car I was SELLING was "hard to turn around" and "not really what people are after around here." I was actually believing all that stuff - under the used car salesperson "spell" for about a day ("Maybe I SHOULD get rid of this thing no one wants!") -- until I snapped out of it and realized - hey I've been hypnotized!!
I certainly also get deeply affected by "this is the ONLY ONE!" mentality. If I don't get this one, I'll never ever find another one!! That attitude tends to cost me quite a bit of money over the years. You don't want to ever believe the car you're looking at is the only one. It's not. And chances are, you'll learn more about what a good deal is the more you look.
But when it comes down to that final decision, however, one also has to factor in CONVENIENCE. Is it the model and color you want? Does it "feel" good when you sit in it? Do you have a family and a job? (meaning time is at a premium?) If so, sometimes paying an extra $1000 is what you have to do - or at least end up doing. It takes a long time to look at cars, and takes a lot of psychological energy. Nowadays, you can find them anywhere in the country, but that involves travel, risk, and transportation costs.
I'll admit I'm not the best negotiator, and when I'm retired, or working part-time, or when the kid grows up a bit I will have more time to look leisurely, compare, and wait - and hopefully improve my skills. But until then, I figure I might get $1000-$1500 less than a perfect deal, and I just have to live with that as part of the "cost of doing business." I work full time and have a 7 year old and it seems like every hour of my life is already "claimed."
For comparison, I recently bought a 2005 LS430 ML/Smartkey - Gold/ - in great shape with 54K miles. It was $22,500 +$200 license fee (to dealer) + tax + $550 to transport from Austin to Denver. Also paid $140 for independent inspection. I had looked for about a month, and that seemed like a good deal to me at the time, but when all was said and done, it was $690 over what a local car would have been
(I'd also come within an inch of buying a Green '04 ML with 101K for $19,5 - 90K service had been done, but it had some interior wear and tear that was obvious.)
I don't think that the car I bought was the best deal ever, and for a few weeks I stressed out about "maybe I didn't get the best deal" and "I should've negotiated harder!" Those are probably true statements, but so what? I made a decision after a month of spending every extra moment looking at cars, trolling CL, and it was affecting my work and family life. I certainly got a reasonable deal. I am not a professional car buyer so I don't do it as well as I might. I am also not a plumber or a drywaller, and so I end up paying $1000's for those services when I could take a few weekends, learn the skills and do that myself also.
Bottom line: if you got the time, take your time. Make that dealer sweat. Keep looking. It's fun to bargain. If you don't have the time, buy it. You'll love it.
One thing that helps me is to think: Is it LOVE or FEAR?
LOVE = I really like THIS particular car. I am attracted to IT. It feels like "the car that was meant for me." This baby feels GOOD!
vs. FEAR = I'm scared that if I don't get this one I'll never find another one. I have to buy it now!!! TODAY!!
If it's LO VE, and you have feelings for the car, that will last a long time. And you will always be happy that you have YOUR car, even if it cost a bit more than others might have.
If it's FEAR, and you buy it because you'll never find another one -- well, actually, you will find another one, and it will be a better deal.
So even if I might have saved some money by buying a different one, I do drive my little gold beauty with some kind of perverse belief that "This car was meant for me! We finally found each other!"
--- Wow, that was long. Guess I had some feelings about that.....hopefully you're not quite as neurotic as I am about it....
In closing, As far as that 90K service - if you're buying from a Lexus dealer, I wonder if there is some kind of middle ground. Would they do it in house for less? Maybe $1G? Might be nice to get that out of the way before you drive it off the lot.
05-17-12, 01:01 PM
#10
Moderator
Doc Denver - good points. I do agree that its usually a time versus money thing and you have to achieve a balance between the two. I also agree that getting the specific car that you are in love with is more important than getting the absolute lowest price. Getting a real good deal makes you happy for a few days but getting a very special car that makes you happy every time you drive it can make you happy for years.
My comments and suggestions about conducting effective used car transactions with dealers were really designed to illuminate the underlying "physics" and psychology of buying a used car from a dealer in hopes of being of service to others. Because they don't negotiate big ticket items for a living many people are at a loss with how to get a fair deal on a used car. And note that I say fair deal - both the seller and the buyer have to have their needs met in a fair exchange.
My comments and suggestions about conducting effective used car transactions with dealers were really designed to illuminate the underlying "physics" and psychology of buying a used car from a dealer in hopes of being of service to others. Because they don't negotiate big ticket items for a living many people are at a loss with how to get a fair deal on a used car. And note that I say fair deal - both the seller and the buyer have to have their needs met in a fair exchange.
05-18-12, 02:10 AM
#12
Pole Position
Thread Starter
The seller isn't going to pay for the TB/WP service or give you a $1500 discount if they can sell the car soon to someone else at the current asking price. Also what the seller paid for the car is 100% irrelevant - if they paid too much that's their problem.
Here is the reality of any used car sales situation - the seller wants you to think that other buyers are coming in to buy the car very soon so he doesn't have to give you a discount. He wants you to think you need to pay his asking price or you will lose the car. At the same time the seller knows they have a rapidly depreciating asset on the lot that is costing them money every week it sits unsold. And its a high mile high dollar used car with a somewhat limited appeal. So in reality you may be the only serious buyer for the LS that the seller has had any contact with in quite - but he will keep that a secret.
In the average every day used car transaction the buyer has to realize that their only leverage point and power in the transaction comes from time. The seller wants to sell now this week, this month, as time goes by he loses money and also less and less buyers are interested in an older car.
So a smart buyer always conducts a transaction maximizing their leverage, dealing fairly with the seller, but always negotiating from the power position. The power position works like this - make what you consider a fair offer (do the research on latest market price, cost to do the required services) and make the offer by phone. This happens after you have gone to test drive the car and checked it out on site beforehand. So when you are ready to buy - call them up - ask for the sales manager specifically (not one of the sales people) and make the offer - let's say something like 19500 minus 1500 for TB/WP services so you offer 18,000. So you say this - "I want to make you a firm offer of $18000 plus tax, tag and title drive out price, and not a penny more. My offer is 100% firm and it is good for 48 hours. After that point I will likely be buying a different car at another dealer. So please call me if you want to sell the car immediately and I bring you a check for the exact amount of my offer and you give me the key." Give the sales manager your phone number thank them for their time and hang up. Under no circumstances get into conversation about how much they paid, how high demand is, or any other BS they want to waste time talking about. And its important to not physically go into the dealer and make verbal offer - that significantly decreases your leverage and shows weakness transferring power back to the seller.
In the end if you are making a fair offer at a fair market value and the dealer wants to sell the car immediately they will call you back and accept the offer. Remember they have an immediate firm offer from you and now time is on your side, and all the pressure is on the seller, they must find a buyer willing to pay more or else they lose an immediate sale. If they have other buyers ready and willing to pay above market price then you will not hear back. But you don't want to pay above market so let someone else do that. Another good car will come along - they always do.
People that go into a dealer and spend 3 hours supposedly "negotiating" the price are known as fish in the used car business. The used car guys are experts at maximizing selling price when the fish shows up and is willing to sit in their offices for hours - the huge time commitment just demonstrates to the seller how badly the fish wants the car being negotiated. So all the leverage and power in negotiating the transaction is now with the seller. And the seller has to be in his office at work anyway and is happy for the company of any buyers that want to come sit with him : )
Good luck.
Here is the reality of any used car sales situation - the seller wants you to think that other buyers are coming in to buy the car very soon so he doesn't have to give you a discount. He wants you to think you need to pay his asking price or you will lose the car. At the same time the seller knows they have a rapidly depreciating asset on the lot that is costing them money every week it sits unsold. And its a high mile high dollar used car with a somewhat limited appeal. So in reality you may be the only serious buyer for the LS that the seller has had any contact with in quite - but he will keep that a secret.
In the average every day used car transaction the buyer has to realize that their only leverage point and power in the transaction comes from time. The seller wants to sell now this week, this month, as time goes by he loses money and also less and less buyers are interested in an older car.
So a smart buyer always conducts a transaction maximizing their leverage, dealing fairly with the seller, but always negotiating from the power position. The power position works like this - make what you consider a fair offer (do the research on latest market price, cost to do the required services) and make the offer by phone. This happens after you have gone to test drive the car and checked it out on site beforehand. So when you are ready to buy - call them up - ask for the sales manager specifically (not one of the sales people) and make the offer - let's say something like 19500 minus 1500 for TB/WP services so you offer 18,000. So you say this - "I want to make you a firm offer of $18000 plus tax, tag and title drive out price, and not a penny more. My offer is 100% firm and it is good for 48 hours. After that point I will likely be buying a different car at another dealer. So please call me if you want to sell the car immediately and I bring you a check for the exact amount of my offer and you give me the key." Give the sales manager your phone number thank them for their time and hang up. Under no circumstances get into conversation about how much they paid, how high demand is, or any other BS they want to waste time talking about. And its important to not physically go into the dealer and make verbal offer - that significantly decreases your leverage and shows weakness transferring power back to the seller.
In the end if you are making a fair offer at a fair market value and the dealer wants to sell the car immediately they will call you back and accept the offer. Remember they have an immediate firm offer from you and now time is on your side, and all the pressure is on the seller, they must find a buyer willing to pay more or else they lose an immediate sale. If they have other buyers ready and willing to pay above market price then you will not hear back. But you don't want to pay above market so let someone else do that. Another good car will come along - they always do.
People that go into a dealer and spend 3 hours supposedly "negotiating" the price are known as fish in the used car business. The used car guys are experts at maximizing selling price when the fish shows up and is willing to sit in their offices for hours - the huge time commitment just demonstrates to the seller how badly the fish wants the car being negotiated. So all the leverage and power in negotiating the transaction is now with the seller. And the seller has to be in his office at work anyway and is happy for the company of any buyers that want to come sit with him : )
Good luck.
i still feel like a huge fish tho.
ps: tho i didnt spend 3hrs i spent 15mins heh.
05-18-12, 03:28 AM
#13
The seller isn't going to pay for the TB/WP service or give you a $1500 discount if they can sell the car soon to someone else at the current asking price. Also what the seller paid for the car is 100% irrelevant - if they paid too much that's their problem.
Here is the reality of any used car sales situation - the seller wants you to think that other buyers are coming in to buy the car very soon so he doesn't have to give you a discount. He wants you to think you need to pay his asking price or you will lose the car. At the same time the seller knows they have a rapidly depreciating asset on the lot that is costing them money every week it sits unsold. And its a high mile high dollar used car with a somewhat limited appeal. So in reality you may be the only serious buyer for the LS that the seller has had any contact with in quite - but he will keep that a secret.
In the average every day used car transaction the buyer has to realize that their only leverage point and power in the transaction comes from time. The seller wants to sell now this week, this month, as time goes by he loses money and also less and less buyers are interested in an older car.
So a smart buyer always conducts a transaction maximizing their leverage, dealing fairly with the seller, but always negotiating from the power position. The power position works like this - make what you consider a fair offer (do the research on latest market price, cost to do the required services) and make the offer by phone. This happens after you have gone to test drive the car and checked it out on site beforehand. So when you are ready to buy - call them up - ask for the sales manager specifically (not one of the sales people) and make the offer - let's say something like 19500 minus 1500 for TB/WP services so you offer 18,000. So you say this - "I want to make you a firm offer of $18000 plus tax, tag and title drive out price, and not a penny more. My offer is 100% firm and it is good for 48 hours. After that point I will likely be buying a different car at another dealer. So please call me if you want to sell the car immediately and I bring you a check for the exact amount of my offer and you give me the key." Give the sales manager your phone number thank them for their time and hang up. Under no circumstances get into conversation about how much they paid, how high demand is, or any other BS they want to waste time talking about. And its important to not physically go into the dealer and make verbal offer - that significantly decreases your leverage and shows weakness transferring power back to the seller.
In the end if you are making a fair offer at a fair market value and the dealer wants to sell the car immediately they will call you back and accept the offer. Remember they have an immediate firm offer from you and now time is on your side, and all the pressure is on the seller, they must find a buyer willing to pay more or else they lose an immediate sale. If they have other buyers ready and willing to pay above market price then you will not hear back. But you don't want to pay above market so let someone else do that. Another good car will come along - they always do.
People that go into a dealer and spend 3 hours supposedly "negotiating" the price are known as fish in the used car business. The used car guys are experts at maximizing selling price when the fish shows up and is willing to sit in their offices for hours - the huge time commitment just demonstrates to the seller how badly the fish wants the car being negotiated. So all the leverage and power in negotiating the transaction is now with the seller. And the seller has to be in his office at work anyway and is happy for the company of any buyers that want to come sit with him : )
Good luck.
Here is the reality of any used car sales situation - the seller wants you to think that other buyers are coming in to buy the car very soon so he doesn't have to give you a discount. He wants you to think you need to pay his asking price or you will lose the car. At the same time the seller knows they have a rapidly depreciating asset on the lot that is costing them money every week it sits unsold. And its a high mile high dollar used car with a somewhat limited appeal. So in reality you may be the only serious buyer for the LS that the seller has had any contact with in quite - but he will keep that a secret.
In the average every day used car transaction the buyer has to realize that their only leverage point and power in the transaction comes from time. The seller wants to sell now this week, this month, as time goes by he loses money and also less and less buyers are interested in an older car.
So a smart buyer always conducts a transaction maximizing their leverage, dealing fairly with the seller, but always negotiating from the power position. The power position works like this - make what you consider a fair offer (do the research on latest market price, cost to do the required services) and make the offer by phone. This happens after you have gone to test drive the car and checked it out on site beforehand. So when you are ready to buy - call them up - ask for the sales manager specifically (not one of the sales people) and make the offer - let's say something like 19500 minus 1500 for TB/WP services so you offer 18,000. So you say this - "I want to make you a firm offer of $18000 plus tax, tag and title drive out price, and not a penny more. My offer is 100% firm and it is good for 48 hours. After that point I will likely be buying a different car at another dealer. So please call me if you want to sell the car immediately and I bring you a check for the exact amount of my offer and you give me the key." Give the sales manager your phone number thank them for their time and hang up. Under no circumstances get into conversation about how much they paid, how high demand is, or any other BS they want to waste time talking about. And its important to not physically go into the dealer and make verbal offer - that significantly decreases your leverage and shows weakness transferring power back to the seller.
In the end if you are making a fair offer at a fair market value and the dealer wants to sell the car immediately they will call you back and accept the offer. Remember they have an immediate firm offer from you and now time is on your side, and all the pressure is on the seller, they must find a buyer willing to pay more or else they lose an immediate sale. If they have other buyers ready and willing to pay above market price then you will not hear back. But you don't want to pay above market so let someone else do that. Another good car will come along - they always do.
People that go into a dealer and spend 3 hours supposedly "negotiating" the price are known as fish in the used car business. The used car guys are experts at maximizing selling price when the fish shows up and is willing to sit in their offices for hours - the huge time commitment just demonstrates to the seller how badly the fish wants the car being negotiated. So all the leverage and power in negotiating the transaction is now with the seller. And the seller has to be in his office at work anyway and is happy for the company of any buyers that want to come sit with him : )
Good luck.
05-19-12, 01:39 PM
#15
Driver School Candidate
After I spent a very long time rationalizing why I spent so long on my diatribe above, outlining why CONVENIENCE is so important, and worth paying for, I realize "I doth protest too loudly." While part of it certainly true, I think really what is happening is .... I feel like a "fish" as well. Even after three months of looking, there are a critical couple of hours in this negotiation stage. A little bit of patience and strategy could have saved me $1000. If that took an extra 2 hours over the course of five days, that would be an awesome return on cash.
Carve that post in stone!
Carve that post in stone!