06 Mark Levinson mediocre sound quality
03-21-14, 06:08 PM
#46
Didn't live up to the hype or cost?
That is ridiculous. I've never seen a review that did anything but say how incredible it was. Since it's introduction, it has been the factory system that other factory system are measured by. The only factory system I've heard that could compete with the ML system is the B&O system in the Audi A8, and it cost almost $7000 if I remember correctly.
That is ridiculous. I've never seen a review that did anything but say how incredible it was. Since it's introduction, it has been the factory system that other factory system are measured by. The only factory system I've heard that could compete with the ML system is the B&O system in the Audi A8, and it cost almost $7000 if I remember correctly.
03-22-14, 07:14 AM
#47
I have no issues whatsoever with the sound. My only complaint is with the crappy quality of the paper speakers that fall apart prematurely.
03-22-14, 07:56 AM
#48
You nailed it
I do consider myself something of an audiophile. My home system consists of single ended triode monoblock amps fed by a tube preamp and a Music Hall MMF-5 turntable all playing though single driver hand made folded horns. I listen to jazz, classical, classic rock and opera.
The ML system in my old 04 and in my new 05 is a disappointment. I was very excited after reading all the glowing reviews about the ML system, even though I knew he was gone (I think Mark Levinson now owns Red Rose Music) and Levinson was owned by some crappy large corporation. If you like the system in this car, that's great, and I'm happy for you. Ignorance is bliss. I loved my Fisher stereo my father got me back in 1977, but that doesn't mean 8 track tapes don't sound bad. I just didn't know any better.
Assuming that anyone that doesn't like the stereo in the LS is only listening to hip hop or bass heavy music is another red flag that you're not really paying attention. A good stereo should be able to handle anything thrown at it with very few limitations. I guess crazy heavy competition bass tracks would be one thing only a specialized stereo can handle, but classical music and rap both have very low bass notes. Classical being just as bad as hip hop. Listen to The Planets by Holst and you will see what I mean. Snoop Dog would probably be holding his ears.
The ML system is weak, it may have an ok soundstage in front but the speakers in the rear doors are way underpowered in relation to the fronts. I know they are only supposed to provide "fill" but it's like they aren't there at all. Listening to just one channel reveals a mid range speaker that sounds like someone covered it with a thick towel and the tweeter sounds like it belongs in a Yugo. The rear channels are even worse when heard individually.
My problem is I know NOTHING about car audio products and that modern cars have integrated the stereo deep into the dash. The days of getting a single or double DIN head unit and a nice amp are over. I don't even know how to start trying to improve this stereo. So I usually just listen to 80s pop ( a lot of which generally sounded like crap anyway) or NPR.
The ML system in my old 04 and in my new 05 is a disappointment. I was very excited after reading all the glowing reviews about the ML system, even though I knew he was gone (I think Mark Levinson now owns Red Rose Music) and Levinson was owned by some crappy large corporation. If you like the system in this car, that's great, and I'm happy for you. Ignorance is bliss. I loved my Fisher stereo my father got me back in 1977, but that doesn't mean 8 track tapes don't sound bad. I just didn't know any better.
Assuming that anyone that doesn't like the stereo in the LS is only listening to hip hop or bass heavy music is another red flag that you're not really paying attention. A good stereo should be able to handle anything thrown at it with very few limitations. I guess crazy heavy competition bass tracks would be one thing only a specialized stereo can handle, but classical music and rap both have very low bass notes. Classical being just as bad as hip hop. Listen to The Planets by Holst and you will see what I mean. Snoop Dog would probably be holding his ears.
The ML system is weak, it may have an ok soundstage in front but the speakers in the rear doors are way underpowered in relation to the fronts. I know they are only supposed to provide "fill" but it's like they aren't there at all. Listening to just one channel reveals a mid range speaker that sounds like someone covered it with a thick towel and the tweeter sounds like it belongs in a Yugo. The rear channels are even worse when heard individually.
My problem is I know NOTHING about car audio products and that modern cars have integrated the stereo deep into the dash. The days of getting a single or double DIN head unit and a nice amp are over. I don't even know how to start trying to improve this stereo. So I usually just listen to 80s pop ( a lot of which generally sounded like crap anyway) or NPR.
03-22-14, 08:01 AM
#49
Levinson Not Part of Harmon
Levinson is not part of the Harmon Group. When he left, he left. For a while he was with LG, and now ons Rose Red. The ML engineers were given a price pint, and Lexus were excited to use the ML name. I haven't heard the base Pioneer system in an LS, but it wouldn't surprise me if it sounds better. I even wonder how many ML engineers stayed at HK when Levinson left. The cultures between the two companies are 180 degrees different. Hard for me to imagine an ML engineer putting in poor quality speakers and sub woofer as they did.
03-23-14, 06:01 AM
#52
You are right
The Bose system in the A8 has much more detail to it, wider dynamic range, and the bass actually has detail and definition. The ML was marketing hype. It does not take away from the LS being a great automobile.
03-23-14, 06:08 AM
#54
I disagree.
I've heard the Bose in the A8, and it is average, at best. That's why it is the standard system. And that's why they can charge an outrageous $6300 for the B&O system.
I've heard the Bose in the A8, and it is average, at best. That's why it is the standard system. And that's why they can charge an outrageous $6300 for the B&O system.
03-23-14, 06:12 AM
#55
That doesn't even make sense. Mark Levinson (the man) left Mark Levinson (the company) 20 years before Harman came in 2001. So, you don't even have to wonder about that.
I see. You have some buthurtedness with Harman. The Mark Levinson line of home products certainly haven't been hurt by the association with Harman. The product that ML engineers designed with Harman to put in the LS430 made it the best factory system of it's time. If it junk to you, everything else around it's time would be even worse. Of course, that opinion doesn't line up with the multitude of reviews stating that the system is nothing short of amazing and worth every dime paid for it.
03-23-14, 07:46 AM
#56
Has anyone taken the speakers out of the ML? What do they look like? Everyone has different tastes and hearing levels.
When I took the speakers out of my Highlander SE they where utter trash.
Go ahead BOB, shoot away, yur the best.
When I took the speakers out of my Highlander SE they where utter trash.
Go ahead BOB, shoot away, yur the best.
03-23-14, 10:59 AM
#57
Actually Levinson was there when HK took over
I thought I pretty much stated that when I said "Mark Levinson left the company he founded in the early 80's." Should have been obvious when I said Mark Levinson was part of the Harman (not Harmon) that I was talking about the company Mark Levinson, not the man.
Name a car company where it works differently.
That's a joke. I've owned both, and it's not even close. And I have heard the Bose system in the A8 that you claim is so great, and it was average at best. Which explain why it was standard, since I can't see anybody paying extra for it. If it were as great as you think it is, there would be no way they could charge an outrageous $6300 for the B&O upgrade.
That doesn't even make sense. Mark Levinson (the man) left Mark Levinson (the company) 20 years before Harman came in 2001. So, you don't even have to wonder about that.
I see. You have some buthurtedness with Harman. The Mark Levinson line of home products certainly haven't been hurt by the association with Harman. The product that ML engineers designed with Harman to put in the LS430 made it the best factory system of it's time. If it junk to you, everything else around it's time would be even worse. Of course, that opinion doesn't line up with the multitude of reviews stating that the system is nothing short of amazing and worth every dime paid for it.
Name a car company where it works differently.
That's a joke. I've owned both, and it's not even close. And I have heard the Bose system in the A8 that you claim is so great, and it was average at best. Which explain why it was standard, since I can't see anybody paying extra for it. If it were as great as you think it is, there would be no way they could charge an outrageous $6300 for the B&O upgrade.
That doesn't even make sense. Mark Levinson (the man) left Mark Levinson (the company) 20 years before Harman came in 2001. So, you don't even have to wonder about that.
I see. You have some buthurtedness with Harman. The Mark Levinson line of home products certainly haven't been hurt by the association with Harman. The product that ML engineers designed with Harman to put in the LS430 made it the best factory system of it's time. If it junk to you, everything else around it's time would be even worse. Of course, that opinion doesn't line up with the multitude of reviews stating that the system is nothing short of amazing and worth every dime paid for it.
All auto manufacturers set a price point when designing a system. If you really think that the Bose in an A8 sounds as good, or worse than the ML, get a hearing test. It doesn't. I've had my old boss who still has the high end audio business listen to them, and he agrees that the A8 is a lot better than the ML. As for the B&O. That's for the person who doesn't care about the budget, and loads up the car. It is a great system, but, it is made with top quality components in very small quantities.
Bottom line. Levinson was there when HK came in. He was gone when Lexus hired ML to build a system for the LS. HK probably did the best they could with the budget they had. Bose built a better sounding unit for Audi (it is not standard in all of their cars).
p.s. Let me guess. You probably think that CD's sound better than vinyl
03-23-14, 12:01 PM
#58
Yeah, Lexus and ML fooled the entire automotive audio industry into thinking they made an outstanding system when in reality, it is garbage. End probably worse than the standard system according to you.
Really? How did they do that?
Really? How did they do that?
03-23-14, 12:15 PM
#59
Lexus Champion
Must be because only idiots bought the new cars from dealers!
03-23-14, 12:35 PM
#60
Yep. I agree. That must be it.
And for some reason, they decided to build one of the best cars in the world but offer a terrible sound system as the upgrade. Then, they somehow got the entire automotive audio world to call it not just great, but the best in the market. The benchmark that all other OEM systems are compared to.
Amazing work by Lexus.
And for some reason, they decided to build one of the best cars in the world but offer a terrible sound system as the upgrade. Then, they somehow got the entire automotive audio world to call it not just great, but the best in the market. The benchmark that all other OEM systems are compared to.
Amazing work by Lexus.