mannye

This argument you two are having sounds exactly like the argument audiophiles have about Bose home products. The fact is that what you have just said in this last post has A LOT of truth in it despite the fact that you were being sarcastic.

Bose, many years ago, used to make good speakers like the 1980's 501 speakers...GOOD not great, which compared to 90% of what was (and still is) being sold in stores was much better. But then BOSE decided to make "More Money Through Better Marketing" to paraphrase their slogan.

And now they make those crappy shouty overly bright systems that cost an astonishing amount of money for what they are. 2500 bucks for a Lifestyle system that can get blown out of the water by a B&W set of mini MT-50 speakers and almost any A/V receiver for about the same price, except the non-BOSE system is upgradable, but you will find an entire industry saying that BOSE is awesome. So yeah...what you say is absolutely plausible and in the case of the ML system in the LS 430, absolutely true.

Bob04

Who in the industry is claiming that Bose HTIB system are great? I've never heard that from anybody other than one of their infomercials or a kid at Circuit City. In fact, it has always been the exact opposite. Bose has been exposed for a long time. They are a punchline in the world of home audio.

Why is Mark Levinson still considered a premium, class-leading system after all these years? Why haven't they been exposed like Bose?

mafpolo

I test drove a new Audi A6 Premium Plus today. It had the standard system. Bose is an upgrade. The standard system was impressive. I got back in my LS UL with the ML, and I must say.......the ML didn't hold a candle to the standard Audi system.

Stu

Aftermarket car audio equipment is not expensive. If you are unhappy with the sound in your LS, you don't need to suffer, just upgrade it. Probably could do it easily for less than $ 2,000 - cheaper than a set of wheels and tires !

Mark Levinson car audio and BOSE are not high end gear anymore. That is why they are putting their systems in cars, lol

mannye

Because you're somehow equating ML home equipment with the parent company pimping the name out to Lexus. Lexus knows full well that most of the customers that buy an LS new don't care, or can't hear well enough even if they did. You're comparing the home products with the car products when all that ML does is lend sound engineers and the name. Hence the decent soundstage is all you get from ML aside from the snazzy badge.

Plus, this isn't opinion, it's fact. Anyone that sits in an LS430 and says that it's the best sound they have ever heard in a car is either someone that only sat in Yugos, full of bull, or deaf as a bat.

Stu, I wish. I would really love to rip that ridiculous equipment out of the car and replace it with at least a better amp and speakers, not to mention upgrade to a hard drive and some nice FLAC tunes, but alas, it doesn't seem possible.

The radio is hooked up to the nav, steering wheel, hands free, voice recognition etc... If it were a separate unit it would be a lot easier. My guess (I really don't know) is that to make the changes the car really needs would cost a lot more than 2K due to having to replace so many other systems and probably make a custom console or at least heavily modify the existing one so it looks good.

I will however, disagree that ML isn't high end anymore. (well it apparently never was in car audio...lol). Mark Levinson home audio is still very much a high end product. Although I will confess not having auditioned any ML stuff for at least a couple of years, they are still right there with Krell and that level. Try and find any ML amp for under 2K... the only thing you will find for less than I would guess an average of 2500 bucks is of course, the car audio amps! LOL.

Jabberwock

Just by looking at the cheap paper cones and foam surrounds, low rent magnets, and pot metal baskets, anyone familiar with moderate to high end high quality audio speaker components would immediately recognize the ML drivers that are put in the LS430 as low end cheap speakers. It does seem weird for Lexus to have built such a great car but used pretty junky audio components in it. What is amazing is the the ML system sounds as good as it does considering the weak amp and the low rent speaker components. My apologizes in advance for the heretical ramblings about the beloved ML system in the LS430.

I recently replaced the four crappy JBL speakers (another bogus Harman K "brand") in my wife's 07 Highlander Limited with a nice set of Polk Audio ref series component speakers . Also added a ipod/iphone interface. Left the head unit alone. The sound (bass and clarity) drastically improved with the new Polks. Wife absolutely loves the "new" system in her car, and at least I can stand to listen to it now.

mannye

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. The only heresy being performed is by Harmon International not giving a crap about the reputation of it's brand. If I had a ML home system that can easily run into the tens of thousands of dollars and heard this abortion I would be very upset. Strong words to be sure, but it's an abortion in relative terms. The fact that this hodgepodge of corporate compromise and marketing BS even sounds halfway decent is a testament to the sound design engineers that worked on it. Now think of how EPIC this system could be if it they had spent more than 150 bucks on parts.

Bob04

Wrong. It absolutely is NOT fact. It is YOUR opinion.

And I'm not equating it to ML home equipment at all. It's you guys that hate it that are expecting it to be the same level of ML home equipment. Anybody with a lick a sense would know that you aren't going to get the same quality components, no matter the brand, for a fraction of the price in an automobile.

Again, how did Lexus and ML fool the entire world for so long with a terrible sounding system? How did something become a industry benchmark and nobody listen to it for years and not call them out?

Jabberwock

Bob - I think it is great that you can express differing viewpoint and perspectives with passion.

Lot's of debate on the forum on the quality of ML system in the LS430. Lot's of smart folks on both sides of the debate expressing relatively diverging opinions - and absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is a good thing for the forum when folks can provide entirely different viewpoints and sometimes contrary perspectives and still remain civil and respectful to other contributors. The idea is that someone coming to the forum would read a thread like this and make an independent judgement based on posts - from the objective data points supplied and also from the credibility of the various posted opinions.

mannye

So you think the ML system in the Lexus in class-leading best in the world. benchmark? OK. That's your opinion I guess. We have to agree to disagree. I concede it sounds better than the even worse base system. I completely disagree that it sounds in any way shape or form "benchmark."

I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. But then again, you might not be either.

mafpolo

The cones are lousy paper, the components are cheap, and the Yugo used cheap components and cheap paper cones. I agree with the above posts, and I endorse them. Actually, you can fool a lot of the people for a very long time. Bottom line....when it comes to the ML sound system, the emperor has no clothes.

warminwisc

Jabberwock, you thought the speakers in the JBL Highlander where junk. You should have seen junk in the base stereo in my 010 Highlander not even JBL. I had a Camry Hybrid with the JBL system thought nothing special of it. Hearing and music is so subjective, Lexus may have outsourced different speakers for a while so maybe others have better quality.

jayclapp

This has become somwhat like religious arguments. Based on internal beliefs with no way of changing anyone. Facts and data not required nor listened too even if available. Enough already!

mafpolo

Come on jayclapp, you're ending the party before everybody wants to go home.

Bob04

You seem a little edgy. Did you take finding out that your ML system is really only as good as the radio in a Yugo really hard?

I don't want to alarm you, but you might have bigger issues. What if Lexus is using that same crappy quality voodoo magic they used with the ML system to fool us about how great the LS430 itself is? You may actually be driving around in a crappy aborted rolling turd with a Yugo quality radio, and not even know it. Not the car that has been universally accepted as one of the best in history with a sound system that set the benchmark for premium audio in luxury sedans. Fooled by the quality voodoo doctors at Lexus.