I don't think there will ever be another Lex like the 430. Rant alert!
02-23-14, 12:02 AM
#31
Pole Position
The LS430 is my third car, and by far my favorite. When I was learning about car ownership, one survey question that I thought was interested was the question, "would you buy your car again?"
I never thought that anyone would ever say "yes" in a world where new cars come out with furious frequency. But after driving my LS430 for about a day or two, I realized that I'd never drive another car if that were an option.
I think the attention to detail sums to systems that produce no vibration or harshness. Old Range Rovers used to have 800 lbs of metal ***** on their frames to quell vibrations. Old GM's have dozens of pounds of sound deadening. The Lexus LS is quieter and smoother than both, and doesn't employ cheap trickery to get there. It's just absurdly well balanced and put together.
I think the LS430 isn't strictly an old school Toyota, but it is reliable in the same way. I'd say it's "close enough" given that the only things that seem to go out on these cars are technically wear items, we just put a lot more miles on our car than most, and the parts seem easy enough to replace and often enough are priced like Toyota parts.
Consider the spectrum of the most reliable Toyotas. The last old school Toyota in production the Crown Comfort , a manual diesel sedan that's often used as a taxi in Asia, it's not uncommon for their odometers to roll over 1 million km on the stock powertrain. Look them up, they're pretty neat. And we have new school, but old-school over-engineered, over built, 100% Japanese with the Japanese parts to match, like the Prius.
Although there's a lot of luxury baked into our cars. At their core, they're RWD, V8 sedans made in Japan. You all know how they feel, when you drive it, it's frictionless. There's no squeaks or rubbing when you about your daily commute. No unexplained ticking. No vibration. Name one element of the car that feels stressed. I bet you can't. They're built to last.
Toyota can obviously make new technology work (spectacularly so! someday I'd love to pick up an LS600hl), but old school Toyotas are simple, effective, well-understood, and will likely outlast their original owners. I got an LS430 because it's nice, and because I think it'll be as nice at 100k, 200k, 300k miles. And then I don't know whether it'll stay in the family or who the next owner might be, but they'll get a car that will spoil all other cars for them.
That's what Toyota luxury ought to be: timeless. No other luxury car lasts as long with the same routine maintenance.
My LS430 has spoiled me, I have the proud distinction of being its second owner. And I can tell you that all the subsequent owners will be privy to the secret that is a modern luxury car can be manufactured in 2001 and last as long as you want.
I never thought that anyone would ever say "yes" in a world where new cars come out with furious frequency. But after driving my LS430 for about a day or two, I realized that I'd never drive another car if that were an option.
I think the attention to detail sums to systems that produce no vibration or harshness. Old Range Rovers used to have 800 lbs of metal ***** on their frames to quell vibrations. Old GM's have dozens of pounds of sound deadening. The Lexus LS is quieter and smoother than both, and doesn't employ cheap trickery to get there. It's just absurdly well balanced and put together.
I think the LS430 isn't strictly an old school Toyota, but it is reliable in the same way. I'd say it's "close enough" given that the only things that seem to go out on these cars are technically wear items, we just put a lot more miles on our car than most, and the parts seem easy enough to replace and often enough are priced like Toyota parts.
Consider the spectrum of the most reliable Toyotas. The last old school Toyota in production the Crown Comfort , a manual diesel sedan that's often used as a taxi in Asia, it's not uncommon for their odometers to roll over 1 million km on the stock powertrain. Look them up, they're pretty neat. And we have new school, but old-school over-engineered, over built, 100% Japanese with the Japanese parts to match, like the Prius.
Although there's a lot of luxury baked into our cars. At their core, they're RWD, V8 sedans made in Japan. You all know how they feel, when you drive it, it's frictionless. There's no squeaks or rubbing when you about your daily commute. No unexplained ticking. No vibration. Name one element of the car that feels stressed. I bet you can't. They're built to last.
Toyota can obviously make new technology work (spectacularly so! someday I'd love to pick up an LS600hl), but old school Toyotas are simple, effective, well-understood, and will likely outlast their original owners. I got an LS430 because it's nice, and because I think it'll be as nice at 100k, 200k, 300k miles. And then I don't know whether it'll stay in the family or who the next owner might be, but they'll get a car that will spoil all other cars for them.
That's what Toyota luxury ought to be: timeless. No other luxury car lasts as long with the same routine maintenance.
My LS430 has spoiled me, I have the proud distinction of being its second owner. And I can tell you that all the subsequent owners will be privy to the secret that is a modern luxury car can be manufactured in 2001 and last as long as you want.
02-23-14, 07:00 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Ya know guys, I've had my RX now for about 2 weeks and I have to say I'm warming up to it. Yes my LS is still way better in so many ways- but I am starting to like the RX too for what it brings to the table. I gave her a good interior cleaning, which helped me feel good about my new purchase. Got rid of all the garbage crap detail products that we're used before it was sold. ......We may be friends, but will never be lovers. My LS has nothing to worry about. But it's nice to be able to park on a mountain of snow and blast out of a spot.
The LS from your year adjusted for inflation is an $80,000 car. The RX even new is a vehicle that starts in the low $40s and tops in the low $50s. So...the LS is $30-40,000 more expensive. You should be pissed if your RX is anywhere near as nice a car as your LS.
If you got the LS experience in every Lexus, why would anybody buy the LS?
When you take stock of what the RX is and what it competes with, its very nice, and rides very well and is very quiet. Friend of mine just leased a $50,500 RX yesterday for under $500 a month. I mean...thats a lot of vehicle for that money. Does yours have the 18s? They ride much better on the 17s.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-23-14 at 07:05 AM.
02-23-14, 07:20 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
It was back then, but you have to adjust it for inflation when comparing it to the cost of a modern car. The UL at the time wasn't even that expensive.
My Dad's 98 LS was under $60k, and I think his 04 UL LS was maybe $67k? But...the 98 was 16 years ago, and the 04 was 10 years ago. Its not fair to say that a $67k 2004 LS is only $17k more than a $50,000 2014 RX. A comparable LS today costs $85k.
EDIT: Check it out (I know its not perfect, but it shows you what I'm saying):
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com
If we take $67,000 in 2004 and turn that into 2014 money it is $82,966.50.
If we take $58,000 in 1998 and turn that into 2014 money it is $83,233.91.
If you look at the LS460 prices, they're about in line with this.
My Dad's 98 LS was under $60k, and I think his 04 UL LS was maybe $67k? But...the 98 was 16 years ago, and the 04 was 10 years ago. Its not fair to say that a $67k 2004 LS is only $17k more than a $50,000 2014 RX. A comparable LS today costs $85k.
EDIT: Check it out (I know its not perfect, but it shows you what I'm saying):
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com
If we take $67,000 in 2004 and turn that into 2014 money it is $82,966.50.
If we take $58,000 in 1998 and turn that into 2014 money it is $83,233.91.
If you look at the LS460 prices, they're about in line with this.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-23-14 at 07:25 AM.
02-23-14, 07:39 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
It puts it into perspective when you think about how expensive these cars have gotten, they really haven't when you think about inflation. My 2013 GS350 was $60,000...when you think that my Dad bought an LS in 98 for less money than that, it seems like prices have gotten out of control. BUT, if you take that $60,000 in 2013 and adjust it for 2003 dollars, its $47,390...or about what a well optioned GS300 cost in 2003. Bear in mind my GS also has AWD and the luxury package with all the equipment not even available in 2003.
My 2003 ES loaded was $39,500 or so, today a similar ES is about $46k. Thats actually a steal! $39,500 adjusted for 2014 dollars is $50,215...
My 2003 ES loaded was $39,500 or so, today a similar ES is about $46k. Thats actually a steal! $39,500 adjusted for 2014 dollars is $50,215...
02-23-14, 07:29 PM
#37
2005 MSRPs:
9100 LS430 sedan 56,325
UN Ultra Luxury selection w/ PCS 13,570
IN Semi-aniline leather 2,100
FK 18" chrome wheels 1,920
Z1 Preferred Accessory Pkg (PIO) 209
Total 74,124
So, the max MSRP you could pay for a USA 2005 LS430 was $74,124 plus the cost of the XM radio.
Of course, dealers might add other stuff.
9100 LS430 sedan 56,325
UN Ultra Luxury selection w/ PCS 13,570
IN Semi-aniline leather 2,100
FK 18" chrome wheels 1,920
Z1 Preferred Accessory Pkg (PIO) 209
Total 74,124
So, the max MSRP you could pay for a USA 2005 LS430 was $74,124 plus the cost of the XM radio.
Of course, dealers might add other stuff.
02-23-14, 08:10 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
I did a little looking, it must have been the CL that was around $67k. I found a window sticker on CL showing a $71,500 or so MSRP for a UL. Bear in mind we were talking about an 04 which did not have PCS.
So, if you assume an 04 was $71,500, that means your 04 cost $88,538.88 in 2014 dollars, making comparisons to a 43-51k RX even more unfair.
Interestingly enough, when you option a 2014 LS RWD SWB with the UL option it comes out to about $88,500. Not a coincidence.
So, if you assume an 04 was $71,500, that means your 04 cost $88,538.88 in 2014 dollars, making comparisons to a 43-51k RX even more unfair.
Interestingly enough, when you option a 2014 LS RWD SWB with the UL option it comes out to about $88,500. Not a coincidence.
02-24-14, 09:08 AM
#40
I think that's why the older you get, the cheaper you get, because you're used to a set of values when growing up and it's hard to adjust to the idea of inflation.
When I hear the prices of new cars, I just don't know if I could ever buy a new car again because it just seems now like such an eye popping amount of money. Even non-luxury cars seem to be over the top in the price department, something like a new Mustang GT is going to be over $30,000 out the door. That was considered almost a teenagers/young adult car growing up.
When I hear the prices of new cars, I just don't know if I could ever buy a new car again because it just seems now like such an eye popping amount of money. Even non-luxury cars seem to be over the top in the price department, something like a new Mustang GT is going to be over $30,000 out the door. That was considered almost a teenagers/young adult car growing up.
02-24-14, 05:09 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
something like a new Mustang GT is going to be over $30,000 out the door. That was considered almost a teenagers/young adult car growing up.
Originally Posted by Lavrishevo
PCS, from what I understand, was available somewhere in January of 04, many 04's UL's don't have it it though.
02-24-14, 06:17 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Really? I have never seen PCS on a 2004.
02-24-14, 06:18 PM
#45
SW13GS - Actually, Dynamic Laser Cruise Control (DLCC) was included on CL and UL cars.
After about Jan 2004, you could order Pre-Collision System (PCS) which, among other things, replaced DLCC with Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC).
DLCC is recognized by the "glass eye" in the lower bumper on the passenger side (at least on US cars).
DRCC has the "plastic shield" behind the Lexus "L in an ellipse" logo in the center of the grille.
Part of the confusion is the result of Lexus choosing to call both "radar" in the dash display.
Hope this helps.
After about Jan 2004, you could order Pre-Collision System (PCS) which, among other things, replaced DLCC with Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC).
DLCC is recognized by the "glass eye" in the lower bumper on the passenger side (at least on US cars).
DRCC has the "plastic shield" behind the Lexus "L in an ellipse" logo in the center of the grille.
Part of the confusion is the result of Lexus choosing to call both "radar" in the dash display.
Hope this helps.