warminwisc

The old generation was ashamed to go on assistance, the new generation expects everything without earning it or working hard to get it. We on this forum do not represent the average joe where just shy of 2/3rds retire to SS and charity at 65, just shy of 1/3rd are dead and like 5 percent are able to take care of themselves at 65. The average Joe at age 50 has saved 50k for retirement. More of the average Joe's should be on the bus line saving the gas, insurance, car payments for an education to better themselves and saving for retirement.

And no offense SW a career where you deal with folks with enough dough to buy homes is not an overall accurate perspective of the real world. "People are employed, earning good income, have cash to buy homes, people are working and doing well?" Not in my neck of the woods it is the folks who have lost their jobs or worry about losing their jobs, and who have credit debt galore. Big business disrespects the average Joe who wants to work hard to make 20 bucks an hour in favor of shareholders(I live in the rustbelt). I agree this generation will be a generation who will not do as well as their parents for the first time in history of the US as Jay alludes. When I was 20, in the early eighties I made 8 bucks an hour and a used car could be had for 250-500 bucks a new Vega was 2699.

SW17LS

While I could certainly buy my cars for cash, I absolutely disagree. I would never take money out of my investments to buy a depreciating asset like a car if I can borrow money for less interest than I am making in return on the investment. To me, that is foolish. Debt is not evil, you just have to be smart about its use and you have to make it work for you. IMHO taking $60,000 out of a investment that returns 5-10% a year to avoid paying 1.9% on a car loan is foolish...that COSTS me money.

The vast majority of people finance their cars...and they do it without having the cash to choose to buy outright...and its been that way for many, many years. The world has kept on turning around.

That is just absurd. "Any other plan is the road to the poor house". I certainly have never followed your plan and I am certainly not in "the poor house".

I agree that revolving credit card debt is insidious and bad, but financing a car...I've financed all my new cars and I've turned out fine, my parents did before me and THEY turned out fine, many, many people do so and turn out fine. Do some people get in over their heads? Sure. Does that mean that even "most" people do? No. If your financial picture is so thin that buying a new car and financing it would ruin your ability to save and plan for the future...then you're doing things wrong on many, many different levels.

What I have done to great success is to identify a certain percentage of my income every month that goes into funding my investment plan. If you start that in your 20s, you'll be fine. The rest of my income is mine to enjoy now, and I enjoy it as I see fit with no guilt.

Again, you're making cliche generalizations. Your parents and grandparents generations said the same thing about you. I'm 33, and I work 7 days a week a lot of weeks, I know many, many other people my generation and younger that are the same way. Is there an entitlement issue out there, sure, I would agree with that...but to say "the new generation expects everything without working for it" is hopelessly out of touch.

May be true overall because of financial realities, but thats not because this generation is lazy or unwilling to work. They don't have the good fortune of being blessed with a favorable economy as you were. Dare I say, our success is harder earned than yours.

I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying your perspective that everybody is suffering, afraid for their jobs, and one check away from disaster is not an accurate perspective of the real world either.

And I'm not talking about people with "dough". My business is primarily young families, buying their first home, selling their first home and moving up for the first time. Not rich people, but middle class people. Yes, despite what you might think the middle class is alive and well.

Certainly DC is better off than a lot of other areas in the country...but its always been that way. I remember when I was a kid in the 90s we had family in WV who were poor and suffering. My mother was downsized and lost her job in 1996, a time when the economy was doing very well. When I was a kid my Dad and I would take turkeys to people he used to work with that were down on their luck who couldn't buy a turkey for thanksgiving...this was "boom times"

Its all about perception...the perception is that things are bad and dire, but its not nearly as bad as that perception makes you think. People like me that realize that are capitalizing off of it. So, thanks. The media distorts that, they tell you that the economy is bad, such and such country is doing this and that and thats going to do this and that, people can't eat. My response? I stopped watching. This 24 hour news cycle is the problem here IMHO, everybody is constantly surrounded by doom and gloom and it hurts their perceptions of the economy, their prospects for the future. Guess what? The most successful people I know did the same thing...its a life changing experience I suggest you try it.

And your dad talked about how he bought his first brand new car for less than $1k and couldn't believe what a Vega cost "nowadays".

Its all relative. Our generation will do just fine, don't worry about us.

jayclapp

People's perception is their reality. It doesn't always matter whether or not that perception is based on fact or not. We've probably gone as far as we can go on this issue. My apologizes for diverting it in this direction.

SW17LS

Thats why you need to change your perception if you want to make a positive change in the way you look at something, like the economy, or the way things are now vs the way they were then. You can go about hanging your head talking about all the bad, "oh all these people buying cars when we're going to all wind up in the dumpster" waah wash stuff, or you can focus on how to create the good in the climate we're in and live your life...which I have done and many others have done and I can tell you...its pretty good.

And you have to understand that your perception is YOUR perception. I'm not sitting here trying to tell you you're wrong for choosing to buy used cars, or not spending on vacations or other lifestyle things so instead you can save the maximum for the future. BUT...you are trying to tell me that I am wrong. According to other posters here any way of doing things other than their way is "the road to the poor house" and thats just absurdly false.

Jabberwock

Please share with us the investment opportunities you have that provide 5-10% consistent yearly return : ) Just kidding, please don't...different forum.

Seriously I am happy to see different perspectives voiced on the forum, and with passion, as long as they are voiced with respect and consideration to others sharing the forum. It is a great group here and everyone is really good about keeping things civil, not taking differing posts personally, and most importantly focusing our posts on being of service and help to other forum members. If everyone agreed and had same perspective, it would be pretty boring and not very educational.

SW17LS

They're out there! Depends on how consistent you want...but like you said, different forum.

I agree 1000%!

AlexusAnja

Everyone... go enjoy the car and stop rambling. I find when I'm feeling blue, I hop in my LS and life is a little bit better and quieter.

Bob04

I agree. The comfort and solitude of my 430 makes my 30 minute commute enjoyable.

Legender

I can't agree more... I'm in the truck this week and can't wait to get back in the LS.
I look forward to leaving work and the ride home... don't really care what the traffic is like...
Even though the 99 is 16 years old... I enjoy the comfort, and luxury it affords me. Even at that age...

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

Legender, I'm curious as why do you prefer to drive the 99 over the 02 and 04? Better ride?

mannye

Wow! What happened to this thread? LOL I just want to give another vote for the LS430 as the greatest car ever. I totaled my '04 and was all ready to move into an 08 or 09 until I test drove them. WTF is going on? Harsh ride! Same great interior, but no way did it justify the premium. I found a sweet mercury metallic '05 with only 52ishK miles on it...brand new as far as I was concerned and never looked back. My 04 was the same color but had the grey interior, and this one is black...looks classier IMO. ALSO... didn't have the 18 in rims...came with the puny ones 17? 16? not sure...they don't look cool BUT what a difference in ride! Much quieter and much more comfortable. To hell with looking cool!

Legender

It's a funny thing that I prefer the older one... I have not quite put my finger on it...
The ride is a bit firmer... the responsiveness seems a bit quicker.
Don't get me wrong, I do love the ride of the 04...
The 04 has more creature comforts than I really need and the 99 just seems to fit my personality better I think. I know, I'm strange, why drive the old one when you have the newer one...
And I think I like the looks of the 99 better than the 430... has more of that sleek sedan look to it, balanced yet powerful. And I just picked up some OEM chrome rims that I'm trying to decide if I want to put on...

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

Ok gotcha. Just wanted some insight on differences. Some say the 400's are even softer than the 430's. I will make an comparison soon as i have buddy that has a 98 400 and will ride in it to see for myself.

SW17LS

My dad had a 98 400 (w/ air suspension) and then an 04 430 UL, both bought new. The 430 was superior in every way, bigger, even smoother and quieter but for some reason we both agreed we missed the 400. Not sure why, maybe it was because it was both of our first experiences with Lexus and it was just such a step up from any car he'd had before (Cadillacs, Lincolns, etc) and something he had wanted for a long time (he had almost bought one three times before, in 1990, 1993 and 1995). Maybe because he got the 400 when I was a senior in high school and I had a great time driving it around to parties and school events and such...but that car to me is a very special car.

I still look around on eBay and auto trader every so often for a good cream puff 98-00 LS400...not sure why I would buy such a thing but I have a feeling someday I will just to have as a third car or something.

Legender

And you really need to drive it... not just ride in it...
and maybe too...ever since they came out I always wanted one...
I even lust after my dad's 93 model with 120k on it... I just really like those cars.