04-06, has anyone who did full tranny flush had problems after the fact?
07-10-15 | 08:33 AM
#31
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 651
Likes: 24
From: WI
I'm confused. From everything I've read and what people are saying here, you're describing a flush if ALL the fluid was transferred out while all new fluid went in. A drain only gets about 2 qts. out which then gets replaced. It takes multiple services to get a "full" change. Are you talking about a third option that I've not seen mentioned anywhere? Is this a Lexus LS?
07-10-15 | 10:21 AM
#32
I've got a 2010 460 with 70,000 miles, CPO. I have a full record of Lexus services, no transmission fluid services. Seeing that mine is the "closed" system would like to hear opinions on whether an independent shop or Toyota service would be advised for the 2-3 qt. drain and fill? I suppose I could wait until just before the CPO runs out in case of problems. My initial thought is to wait...
Changed my mind after some thought. Best to do it sooner than later, less chance of solids build up to break free with the intro of fresh fluid.
Changed my mind after some thought. Best to do it sooner than later, less chance of solids build up to break free with the intro of fresh fluid.
Last edited by swfla; 07-10-15 at 05:50 PM.
07-10-15 | 11:57 AM
#33
Update: I called a local repair shop highly rated by Angie's list members. They do a full flush....I ended the call quickly. I'm new in town and obviously need to do more research for an independent. I also called local Toyota service, the adviser said they recommend a 100,000 mile interval on the WS fluid and would drop the pan to do a full drain and replace (about $180) but would do a simple drain and top off if I wanted it. From the experiences stated here, I'm more comfortable with the simple drain and top off even if it takes several years to complete as I only put about 7,000 miles on my car each year.
07-10-15 | 02:15 PM
#35
Yelp is a good free site to look for independent mechanics. The transmission pan never needs to be dropped unless to repair something. This is from Aisin directly. The drain and refill procedure is identical for the 460 as it is for the 04-06 430. Although, the amount drained may be a little different. Anyone recommending dropping the pan for no reason makes zero sense. Have you tried your local Lexus dealer and a quote for the drain and refill only? Also, dropping the pan does not get any more fluid out then draining the pan. The rest of the fluid is not in the pan.
On the 04-06 430:
Transmission pan and drain plug removal 1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
On the 04-06 430:
Transmission pan and drain plug removal 1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 07-10-15 at 02:33 PM.
07-10-15 | 04:25 PM
#36
Thanks for the specific info. No Lexus dealer nearby. I talked further to Toyota and a Japanese specialist shop. The J shop recommended the drain and top off, I also got oil change prices from them. Then called Toyota to get a price on the same services. Turns out that Toyota is $60 for 0w20 full synthetic and filter. The J shop was $100. Both gave me a price for the drain and top off of $80-120 depending on number of quarts of "world" fluid at $20/qt. Plus Toyota wants me to drop car in the PM so the car is the right temp. for drain in the AM and will shuttle me home and back again the next day.
I'm going with Toyota as they'll be cheaper in the long run, have all the right equipment, materials and have several Lexus certified mechanics on staff. The courtesy shuttle was the cherry on top. Boo-yah. I don't mind paying the $20/qt as I'm totally comfortable with their abilities and experience. I'll probably go back in 2500 miles increments for a total of 6 transmission refills depending on how many quarts come out. Does that sound like enough? According to Amsoil the total capacity is 10.9 qts., the draining is supposed to yield 3 qts.
I'm going with Toyota as they'll be cheaper in the long run, have all the right equipment, materials and have several Lexus certified mechanics on staff. The courtesy shuttle was the cherry on top. Boo-yah. I don't mind paying the $20/qt as I'm totally comfortable with their abilities and experience. I'll probably go back in 2500 miles increments for a total of 6 transmission refills depending on how many quarts come out. Does that sound like enough? According to Amsoil the total capacity is 10.9 qts., the draining is supposed to yield 3 qts.
Last edited by swfla; 07-10-15 at 05:55 PM.
07-10-15 | 07:53 PM
#37
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 67
From: Illinois
Yelp is a good free site to look for independent mechanics. The transmission pan never needs to be dropped unless to repair something. This is from Aisin directly. The drain and refill procedure is identical for the 460 as it is for the 04-06 430. Although, the amount drained may be a little different. Anyone recommending dropping the pan for no reason makes zero sense. Have you tried your local Lexus dealer and a quote for the drain and refill only? Also, dropping the pan does not get any more fluid out then draining the pan. The rest of the fluid is not in the pan.
On the 04-06 430:
Transmission pan and drain plug removal 1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
On the 04-06 430:
Transmission pan and drain plug removal 1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
07-10-15 | 08:07 PM
#38
Do you think that it is different because that pdf is from an 01-03 model? I have heard the same thing about it being closer to two but I wonder if the pan size is different of the earlier models.
07-10-15 | 08:13 PM
#39
Thanks for the specific info. No Lexus dealer nearby. I talked further to Toyota and a Japanese specialist shop. The J shop recommended the drain and top off, I also got oil change prices from them. Then called Toyota to get a price on the same services. Turns out that Toyota is $60 for 0w20 full synthetic and filter. The J shop was $100. Both gave me a price for the drain and top off of $80-120 depending on number of quarts of "world" fluid at $20/qt. Plus Toyota wants me to drop car in the PM so the car is the right temp. for drain in the AM and will shuttle me home and back again the next day.
I'm going with Toyota as they'll be cheaper in the long run, have all the right equipment, materials and have several Lexus certified mechanics on staff. The courtesy shuttle was the cherry on top. Boo-yah. I don't mind paying the $20/qt as I'm totally comfortable with their abilities and experience. I'll probably go back in 2500 miles increments for a total of 6 transmission refills depending on how many quarts come out. Does that sound like enough? According to Amsoil the total capacity is 10.9 qts., the draining is supposed to yield 3 qts.
I'm going with Toyota as they'll be cheaper in the long run, have all the right equipment, materials and have several Lexus certified mechanics on staff. The courtesy shuttle was the cherry on top. Boo-yah. I don't mind paying the $20/qt as I'm totally comfortable with their abilities and experience. I'll probably go back in 2500 miles increments for a total of 6 transmission refills depending on how many quarts come out. Does that sound like enough? According to Amsoil the total capacity is 10.9 qts., the draining is supposed to yield 3 qts.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 07-10-15 at 10:21 PM.
07-10-15 | 08:19 PM
#40
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 67
From: Illinois
Having done drain and fills on my '01 for years, I know the '01 - '03 is not less than 2 qts. And, rkw's manual from which that page was taken is for a 2004 LS.
07-10-15 | 09:35 PM
#42
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 67
From: Illinois
Lav, the pdf came from this thread, post # 8 where you, rkw77080 and I posted. https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...into-gear.html
Perhaps rkw can confirm what year that pdf is for.
XJSfan post # 31 above says always around 3 qts. for his 2006.
Perhaps rkw can confirm what year that pdf is for.
XJSfan post # 31 above says always around 3 qts. for his 2006.
Last edited by Tom57; 07-10-15 at 09:42 PM.
07-10-15 | 10:06 PM
#43
I am wondering if more fluid comes out if the car is not level. For instance, most people at home use jack stands or ramps vs having a lift. I wonder if this will affect the level in the pan. What I was quoting was from the technical procedure in the transmission mother thread for 04-06 but I have never done this personally so I can't verify the amount from personal knowledge.
As far as the pdf goes, the thread rkw posted it in was for the 01-03 model. You can also tell because it references the dip stick and using type IV fluid. Both of which 04-06 models don't have. The procedure on the 04-06 models is a lot more difficult as well.
As far as the pdf goes, the thread rkw posted it in was for the 01-03 model. You can also tell because it references the dip stick and using type IV fluid. Both of which 04-06 models don't have. The procedure on the 04-06 models is a lot more difficult as well.
The following bellow is the procedure I copied from the service manual:
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID
ADJUSTMENT
1. BEFORE TRANSMISSION FILL
_ This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
_ It is necessary to refill the transmission with the correct
amount of fluid.
_ The vehicle must remain level while adjusting fluid level.
2. TRANSMISSION PAN FILL
(a) Remove the two bolts and transmission case cover.
(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.
(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins
to trickle out of the overflow tube.
(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.
3. TRANSMISSION FILL
(a) Fill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid as
listed in the table below.
(b) Reinstall the refill plug to avoid fluid splash.
Performed Repair Fill Amount
Transmission pan and drain plug removal
1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
HINT:
If you cannot add the listed amount of fluid, do the following:
(1) Install the refill plug.
(2) Allow the engine to idle with air conditioning OFF.
(3) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
fluid.
(4) Wait for 30 seconds with the engine idling.
(5) Stop the engine.
(6) Remove the refill plug and add fluid.
(7) Reinstall the refill plug.
4. FLUID CIRCULATION
(a) Allow the engine to idle with the air conditioning OFF.
(b) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
the fluid.
5. FLUID TEMPERATURE CHECK
NOTICE:
_ On vehicles equipped with air suspension, perform
step (c) if it necessary to jack up the vehicle while the
engine running.
_ The fluid temperature should be less than 30_C (86_F)
before beginning the fluid temperature check.
(a) With hand-held tester
(1) Connect the hand-held tester to the DLC3.
(2) Select the tester menus: OBD/MOBD, ENGINE,
DATA LIST and A/T.
(3) Check A/T OIL TEMP.
(4) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(b) Without hand-held tester (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4) and TC (13) of
the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D every 1.5 seconds for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator will come on again when the
fluid temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will
blink when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle unit the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(c) For vehicles with air suspension (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4), OPA (11) and
TC (13) of the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
Terminal OPA is connected to prevent air suspension
height adjustment from occurring when the vehicle
is lifted off the ground with the engine running.
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D at 1.5 seconds interval for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator comes on again when the fluid
temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will blink
when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
6. FLUID LEVEL CHECK
NOTICE:
The fluid temperature must be between 46_C (115_F) and
56_C (130_F) to accurately check the fluid level.
(a) Remove the overflow plug with the engine idling.
(b) Check that the fluid comes out of the overflow tube.
_ If fluid does not come out, proceed to step 7
_ If fluid comes out, wait until the over-flow slows to
a trickle and proceed to step 8.
7. TRANSMISSION REFILL
(a) Install the overflow plug.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Remove the refill plug.
(d) Add 0.4 liters (0.42 US qts, 0.35 Imp. qts) of fluid.
(e) Allow the engine to idle and wait for 10 seconds.
(f) Proceed to step 6.
8. COMPLETE
(a) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Install the refill plug with a new gasket.
(d) Install the transmission case cover with the two bolts.
Torque:
20 Nm (205 kgfcm, 15 ftlbf) for overflow plug
39 Nm (400 kgfcm, 29 ftlbf) for refill plug
__________________
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID
ADJUSTMENT
1. BEFORE TRANSMISSION FILL
_ This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
_ It is necessary to refill the transmission with the correct
amount of fluid.
_ The vehicle must remain level while adjusting fluid level.
2. TRANSMISSION PAN FILL
(a) Remove the two bolts and transmission case cover.
(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.
(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins
to trickle out of the overflow tube.
(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.
3. TRANSMISSION FILL
(a) Fill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid as
listed in the table below.
(b) Reinstall the refill plug to avoid fluid splash.
Performed Repair Fill Amount
Transmission pan and drain plug removal
1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
HINT:
If you cannot add the listed amount of fluid, do the following:
(1) Install the refill plug.
(2) Allow the engine to idle with air conditioning OFF.
(3) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
fluid.
(4) Wait for 30 seconds with the engine idling.
(5) Stop the engine.
(6) Remove the refill plug and add fluid.
(7) Reinstall the refill plug.
4. FLUID CIRCULATION
(a) Allow the engine to idle with the air conditioning OFF.
(b) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
the fluid.
5. FLUID TEMPERATURE CHECK
NOTICE:
_ On vehicles equipped with air suspension, perform
step (c) if it necessary to jack up the vehicle while the
engine running.
_ The fluid temperature should be less than 30_C (86_F)
before beginning the fluid temperature check.
(a) With hand-held tester
(1) Connect the hand-held tester to the DLC3.
(2) Select the tester menus: OBD/MOBD, ENGINE,
DATA LIST and A/T.
(3) Check A/T OIL TEMP.
(4) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(b) Without hand-held tester (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4) and TC (13) of
the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D every 1.5 seconds for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator will come on again when the
fluid temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will
blink when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle unit the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(c) For vehicles with air suspension (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4), OPA (11) and
TC (13) of the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
Terminal OPA is connected to prevent air suspension
height adjustment from occurring when the vehicle
is lifted off the ground with the engine running.
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D at 1.5 seconds interval for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator comes on again when the fluid
temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will blink
when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
6. FLUID LEVEL CHECK
NOTICE:
The fluid temperature must be between 46_C (115_F) and
56_C (130_F) to accurately check the fluid level.
(a) Remove the overflow plug with the engine idling.
(b) Check that the fluid comes out of the overflow tube.
_ If fluid does not come out, proceed to step 7
_ If fluid comes out, wait until the over-flow slows to
a trickle and proceed to step 8.
7. TRANSMISSION REFILL
(a) Install the overflow plug.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Remove the refill plug.
(d) Add 0.4 liters (0.42 US qts, 0.35 Imp. qts) of fluid.
(e) Allow the engine to idle and wait for 10 seconds.
(f) Proceed to step 6.
8. COMPLETE
(a) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Install the refill plug with a new gasket.
(d) Install the transmission case cover with the two bolts.
Torque:
20 Nm (205 kgfcm, 15 ftlbf) for overflow plug
39 Nm (400 kgfcm, 29 ftlbf) for refill plug
__________________
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 07-10-15 at 10:28 PM.
07-11-15 | 08:15 AM
#45
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 67
From: Illinois
So my personal experience of doing drain and fills for several years on my '01 with 260K+ miles is confirmed by the pdf (above): drain and fill capacity = 2 qts.+/- . XJZFan posted above that drain and fill on his 06 is about 3 qts. The 1.37 qts. drain and fill capacity for 04 - 06 isn't confirmed by actual experiences. When it comes time to do my '06's ATF, it looks like I should have 3 qts. of WS available.
Last edited by Tom57; 07-11-15 at 08:43 AM.