Bob04

I could buy 5 LS460s, but based on my experience with the 460, I'm not sure I can spend that much time at the Lexus service department.

Tom57

They'd give you a nice LS 430 for a loaner ...

Bob04

Considering how unreliable my 460 was, I'd need 5 of them if I want to be sure I had one available to drive every day.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Or an ES 350 and then you appreciate your LS even more.

AJT123

We both look at cars in different ways. Features and the latest technology aren't what makes a car "good" to me. The 430 was newer than the 400, yes, but those are both models that were OBJECTIVELY rated as one of, if not THE, most reliable and bulletproof cars in history. The 460 does not share this attribute with them. It's still a very reliable car in general, best in class for sure, but it's just not ungodly bulletproof like the previous ones were. That's the reason why I think the older ones are "better."

Yes, us, as well as all the Lexus dealer service departments and master techs. My Service Advisor in Knoxville told me the 460 "is half the car", that "many customers regret trading from 430 to 460", and that they are in such high demand that "if one came in here today, it would be gone by closing time." He also mentioned 460 motor issues. They then sent me a letter and tried to buy my car from me, offering thousands over trade in value.

As soon as I got to LA I went to the service department to ask one of the SAs about transmission maintenance. Again, the guy was like "Oh, a 430, nice. Great car. It has the best engine Lexus ever made. You'll never have any (engine) issues with it." Then, sure enough, I got something in the mail from Beverly Hills Lexus offering, again, to buy my car well above trade in value. The letter couldn't emphasize enough how high in demand the 430s are.

I know that this is somewhat dealership hodgepodge (like, they're not losing anything by offering me more $ for the trade in the end), but it does speak for itself. The service guys, however, gain nothing from what they tell me.


Okay, but the objective results say otherwise. Go look at consumer reports. It's documented the 430 is more reliable. It had no issues like the 460 did when it came out. You can't go wrong with any 430 (or 400), whereas you need to avoid certain years on the 460. I bought my 430 when it was 8 years old and didn't think a thing of it. Would I go buy an 8 year old (2007) LS460? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Okay, but not everyone has a 50, 60, 70k budget for a car.

Newer, yes, of course!! But again, newer doesn't necessarily mean better. The 460 is newer, but is it the car that the 400 and 430s were in their day? No. I don't think a 460 is better than my 430 because it has more features and is newer. We both just feel totally opposite as to what makes a car "better", and that's fine.


This is just baloney. It has nothing to do with psychology. Back in those days I was many years away from even owning one; how could I be biased? All I'm saying is, back in the day, 400s and 430s were EVERYWHERE, at least as much as the competition. Now they are scarce. I swear to god when I tell you this, I see more 1st gen LS400s (the old OLD ones with the 15" rims) than I do new 460s out here. Some are pristine and look brand new; others are complete beaters. That's a fair indication of how many there were back then. Of course, this is only in my city and it's different other places. But, Lexus LS sedans (everywhere, not just here) just aren't ubiquitous like they used to be. I see so many S-Classes and 7-Series that I'm practically blinded by them. For every 460 I see, I see at least 50 S550s--no exaggeration.


Okay, I don't know where to start with this one. Yes, I have read both comparisons many times. Last place is last place. They criticized the 430 for the exact same thing in the "lows" column. "Not very involving on back roads, tires easy to squeal" is exactly what I think they said. They also prefaced it by saying something like "This is not a Car and Driver sort of car." But it still won first place, and C&D gushed over it. C&D wasn't looking for anything "different" in the newer comparison, just what the best car was. Best I remember the W220, Audi A8 and especially the 745i of those times were very good driver's cars and dynamically superior. But still the 430 took first place, even with the worst handling, etc.

The short answer? Probably. Mercedes from that era (70s-mid 80s) were just indestructible, which is also well-known. You REALLY got what you paid extra for with those back then.

CarGuy89

Just wanted to throw in my experience as I've recently gone from a 430 to a 460.

430: A phenomenal car, anyone who talks bad about it clearly doesn't understand proper luxury. It is also the longest I've ever had a car which was roughly 5 years. Usually I get bored after a year or 2 and just trade for something else, but not the case with the 430. I was always amazed by how quiet and rattle free the car was, despite being around 11 yrs old when I sold it. The car still looked great and it made me sad to see it drive off.

460: I got this car to consolidate and 'downsize' from having 2 daily drivers. I wanted AWD snow capabilities, but did not want the unnecessary size and mass of an SUV. I looked at a lot of different cars, from mid to full size sedans. One of my favorites ended up being the BMW 750 (sorry if I made anyone ), and i will admit that when I'm further along in my career it is the car I would pick. However, I chose the 460 in the end b/c of reliability. Yes, you hear some bad stories about the 460s, but that's just a select few. The '11 model years and onwards pretty much addressed all the little bugs. Now, I've only had the 460 for 2 months, so time will tell about long term reliability. I must say though, the car feels every bit as well built as my 430, if not better in some respects. For instance, the interior materials - if you didn't have the extended leather on the dash in the 430, then the plastics while high quality, were quite hard. In the 460, the plastics are softer and feel nicer somehow. The fit/finish and attention to detail are exceptional. The extra toys are nice too, though coming from a 430 I'm not as blown away as I once was. To summarize, the 460 captures the essence of the 430 very well, but IMO improves on many little details to make a pretty big and positive difference. Of course, styling can always be argued but that is a very subjective topic; you won't love a car you don't like the look of. I am not trying sway anyone one way or the other, merely sharing my experiences. In the end, both are fantastic cars and we are all very fortunate to be driving these wonderful machines.

Jabberwock

Nicely stated. Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective.

AJT123

Ahh, there you are! I see you traded up! Congrats, glad you like your car. I'm sure the AWD will be a life saver for you!!!

Tom57

I've owned and driven LS since they were first introduced, having had a corporate fleet of the 400's. Currently own only three (3) LS430's; looking for a 4th. Could easily own as many 460's.

The one point that is never addressed by 460 owners is the consistent, pervasive and virtually verbatim comment that so many of us heave heard from Lexus technicians across the nation: "the 430 was the best that Lexus ever made." Some go on to disclose the many problems with the 460 that keep them busy and paid. I've read 460 owners dismissing these objective facts with only anecdotal and subjective remarks. Who better to provide objective evidence of the quality, durability and reliability than the folks who fix them? As simply owners and drivers, none of us have the personal knowledge to match or even reply to such an all-encompassing statement grounded in objectivity. When I was looking for my 2nd LS 2 years ago, I too heard that statement from a Lexus parts manager and a tech, and that was all I needed to know. At the time, I had 200K+ reliable and comfortable miles on the '01, and it was a simple and risk-free decision to narrow my search for a '06 LS430. Then another '06 LS430 last month.

Bob04

I don't feel that way about the 460. It is very expensive to fix and has had more issues than the 430. It might not be maintenance nightmare an S Class is out of warranty, but I would expect some expensive repairs with the 460. Considering the cost of the repairs I had done under warranty on my 460L, I would not own one out of warranty. I don't feel the same way about the 430, except maybe the air struts on the UL.

That's where I think Lexus lost it's way with the LS. Instead of being the over-engineered pure luxury car, I feel they tried to chase the Germans. The end result was a car that took a step back as a pure luxury car, but still didn't come close to achieving the German feel. Lexus needs to stick to what they did best with the LS. Don't try to outhandle a BMW. Don't try to be faster than a MB. Just be a super smooth, ultra quiet luxury car that offer rock solid reliability. Handling and acceleration need to be as good as possible without compromising what makes a great luxury car great.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

Yeah the whole warranty discussion on the 460 side is constant. Consumer reports and other sources like
Clark Howard consistently show how oem and aftermarket warranties are not in the favor of the consumer but this also plays into how willing the consumer will be to research, purchase the parts themselves, and install or pay for labor only vs just driving up and saying "fix it."

I was offered an extended warranty through my credit union when I purchased my UL and it would have been a total waste of money. Like $3500 worth. Nothing has failed on the car. The only issue when I purchased the car was an intermittent door lock actuator. The selling dealer cut me a check for $500 for the part and I purchased a $9 motor to fix it...

Now with the air suspension, it is an expensive fix if you replace new. I was a bit paranoid when I purchased the car but I also love the way it rides. Really exceptional. I decided to either replace with a conventional system or find a nice used set. After a few months of general looking a whole set popped up on eBay and I had them shipped to my house for $500. As mentions before, they have been sitting around for about 3 years. But when the time comes it will not be expensive for me me to replace as needed. It's actually cheaper going this route then a conventional suspension. As long as you are open to options the UL's air suspension is not a nightmare waiting to happen.

Bob04

I don't really think your situation can be considered a typical option. Many people don't want to put used suspension ebay parts on their cars, and I think you paid way less than what is typical for a set of 4 air shocks. I see them typically listed at $500 a piece. So unless you are willing to go ebay used and get a freakishly low deal, the air suspension will be a very expensive fix, especially compared to the non-air suspension.

jayclapp

It seems to me that people who don't have air suspension are the ones that are concerned about the price to replace them. Why don't we just let those that have the air suspension worry about it? I have air suspension and I don't worry about it. Why should someone worry about it for me? Just my opinon.

jwillis123

Well said. I agree 100%. I am a former Mercedes fanatic now driving a 430. I'm sure some of my passion for the 430 is a result of my disappointment with Mercedes. A big part of pride of ownership is knowing the 430 has not let me down. 20 years ago it almost seemed like a rite of passage to own a beautiful Mercedes that would take a dump and cost you thousands for an unexpected repair. It's really a shame for the 460 to be perceived in the same light as an S Class (get rid of it when the warranty is up)

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

With very few individual exceptions, that is absolutely not the perception of the LS460.