Bocatrip

I haven't read all the posts. My experience is to try and get an alignment shop that will not just send your car out after it is in the "green" when finished. Both front wheels should be "close" to each other in specs as well as rears being as close as possible.
Being in the green is not the way to go these days with tires being as expensive as they are.

MRLexus90

Also, to align these cars properly you have to use TechStream or similar to center the steering angle sensor to 0.00, and reset the Yaw rate and zero-point-calibration afterward while its on the rack. I sat in the car with my laptop running TechStream while my tech did my last alignment. After he was done I used it to recalibrate the ECU. As far as indie alignment shops go, it's important to call ahead and ask to speak to someone who has experience aligning your specific car. Quiz them. Ask how they align your car, and are their any special procedures. You want to see if his schpiel jives with the FSM. If the tech sounds like he's full of it, pass and call another shop or talk to another tech. I have used the same Firestone mechanic for years for both my 1990 LS400 and my 2001 LS430 UL for alignments, everything else I do myself, and the difference from aligning just by the machine and using TechStream on my laptop was the difference between night and day in terms of vehicle stability, perfectly centered wheel, true tracking, and equal damping force for the air struts... I also had the sub frame bolts retorqued as per the periodic maintenance specs from the FSM, while it was on the lift prior to the alignment as an extra measure of insurance and I am glad I took the time to be a part of the alignment process. My UL has never ridden better. Ride quality is so important on many levels, from comfort to reduced driver fatigue to safety so it's crucial to get it right. Besides, these cars are our pride-and-joy's, so why take a chance handing over the keys to some lackey?? Firestone, here in Missouri, at least, offers a lifetime alignment for approx $150 and I can have it aligned as often as I like. They told me some guys come in every 5,000 miles, so there's no reason to pay the stealer if you just do it properly.

tradosauru

Wow. Awesome information.

ancdmd

What gripes me is having to tell the techs at every alignment to make sure they tighten the camber bolt to spec, which I thought was 166 ft lb. I see the manual states it should be 127 ft lb, which is news to me.

campisi

It's called a loss leader. As you note, there's no way they can make money at $49 so they bank on the fact that they can sell you a bunch of suspension parts or anything else they can think of which which will make them some money. If you're one of the customers that doesn't fall for their pitch for new parts then they lose money on you.
But, as you can see, it's hit/miss with whether you get a place/tech that can actually do the work correctly. Brand new equipment means nothing if the tech can't operate it in a repeatable manner, as OP found out. Alignment is actually one of those things I also believe I'd just take to the dealer. That doesn't mean you won't have problems though! My 03 has never had an alignment (or any suspension work done) and it still drives spot on so I've never had to go throught the alignment gauntlet.

Stu

I know the problem. My 2005 LS had 4 four wheel alignments in one year. The first 3 did not fix the cars inability to drive straight down any road or highway. I changed all 4 tires 3 times, and changed my wheels once. The issue was only fixed after I drove an hour to a shop that specializes in setting up race cars.

I am glad I took it to him. I was about to sell the car !

MRLexus90

I know a little bit about race cars and what most likely happened was the guy set the toe to correct for a defect which was causing your pulling. You had it aligned four times. You replaced all the tires three times. You changed the wheels once. I'm not knocking your shop or all your efforts, we've all been there, trust me! If you had it aligned on a rack each time, you should have seen a print out for the specs. I'd be most interested in seeing their data and the data from the race shop's alignment. If I were you, I'd take a closer look at the body mounts and lower control arm bushings to see if anything on the front or rear sub-frame has shifted position. Look for a "dirt line" indicating where mounting positions used to be. Look for signs of obvious impact damage and free-play to suspension parts. If the steering angle sensor is not zeroed out the whole time it's aligned, and you have air suspension, your car will not reliably track true on any surface, new pavement included, because it affects the dampening force of all four struts. If the angle is off, one side will be firmer / softer than the other, or the cross axis balance could be upset. Trust me, I know. I went down the list performing differential diagnosis following both Lexus methodology and my own and after performing a "correct" alignment, I doubt this car has rode this nice since it was brand new.

ancdmd

I had never heard of this sensor needing to be zeroed out, but it makes sense. None of the alignment shops I've ever been to ever mentioned it either, and I wouldn't expect them to be knowledgeable of it. For an air-equipped car like the UL I would guess that the dealer would be the only place that would know to do this, or maybe an independent Lexus/Toyota shop.

I've had a caster issue for a couple years and the resulting pull was eating up my tires. Last week I finally found a shop that was able to correct the caster by tweaking the control arm a bit. The pull is gone, but the steering is still off and the left camber bushing is squeaking, likely due to it not being torqued to spec. I have to take it back to the shop this Friday to have it corrected. I think I'll swing by the dealership on the way home and inquire about their procedure for aligning this car, and maybe even have em check the alignment to be sure.

Stu

Don't think the dealer is always the best answer. FYI, my second alignment was done by Lexus .... and they charged me for an alignment but did not adjust anything. Lexus said they needed to replace a bunch of parts before they could do an alignment on my car. It was BS of course. The guys here helped me notice Lexus has not done any adjustment to try to align the car, so I went back and they promptly refunded their alignment fee.

I only went to recommended shops that worked on high end vehicles and they all did a lousy job .... except the last guy who set up race cars. I didn't have to drive very far from his shop to know he had VASTLY improved the cars driveability.

MRLexus90

Before you go to any more time or expense, download and take a look at the file in my previous post, "alignment directions." Under the section for adjusting caster the FSM says you can adjust it by changing the No. 2 bracket and lists the part number for each one to give +/- 30' . If the shop had to "tweak" the control arm, and it's causing stress on the arm, I'd suspect the bracket needs replaced. Maybe it will explain your problem, maybe not, but at least you will be armed with the same information Lexus has access to when you go to the shop Friday. I just hope their tweaking hasn't damaged your No. 2 bushing. If they have, I'd make them pay for it as they were clearly not following the FSM directions. I hope this helps!

ancdmd

I did download it, thank you for posting it. My caster was about 2 degrees off. He mentioned the offset bracket being an option but said it still wouldn't bring it into spec. With a steel control arm it is likely that it got a little bent from some of the terrible pavement I drive on, especially since I'm lowered and on 20's. This is a very-highly reviewed frame and alignment shop and the owner guy is very experienced. He said he would heat up the arm a bit in one spot and use a porta-power (think I said that right) to bend the arm a tiny bit back into spec. I was in the waiting room when it was done but it didn't take long and the final result was that the caster was in spec. I don't think the bushing is damaged but I will check it again and if it is damaged then I will bring it to their attention, especially since the bushing is only about a year old.

MRLexus90

Sounds like you are in good hands, and I agree with your reasoning: sounds like maybe a bushing is suspect being too tight or just wearing-in at a different angle now. You didn't say whether you had replaced LCA bushings besides the No. 2 ones, so I'll assume they're original. A shop that can heat and bend those with repeated precision and success would ease my mind, too, so I think like you it must be impact damage. You might have a good look underneath and see if anything has shifted, though, by looking for dirt lines around the subframe mounting bolts and such; you might have hit a pothole and shifted the subframe. Those bolts are listed in the periodic undercarriage maintenance section of the FSM so when they get the alignment just like you want it, I'd go ahead and ask if they wouldn't mind torquing everything to spec, just for added rigidity and durability given your setup. Good luck Friday! Keep us posted please

ancdmd

Caster bushings are only about a year old, camber bushings are not original, I replaced them around 60k miles ago. 175k miles on the car now, it's an '02 UL. I'll have the subframe bolts checked and torqued.

StanVanDam

About the subframe bolts, here is what a local Lexus service manager said about them for my 2002 UL when I asked in 2011:

"The chassis bolts and propeller flange bolts do not need to be retorqued but they are visually inspected to make sure they are in place and not missing. None of the mentioned component bolts or nuts require to be retorqued because they either use a locking nut or have an ecentric cam on them."

I'm not sure I believe that since the service manual clearly tells you to retorque the bolts and provides the torque specifications for them.

ancdmd

Went back to the shop today and had them correct the steering and tighten the camber bushing bolts. The car drives better but I still wanted the sensors checked in addition to a few other items so I swung by Lexus of North Miami to ask about their alignment procedure for this car. The service writer said they do "laser alignment". Derp derp. I asked if they would set the steering angle sensor to zero and the reset the yaw rate and zero-point-calibration also and he looked at me dumbfounded and promptly recommended I take the car to "5-star Frame and Alignment" which is the shop I was just at. WTF? Since when does a Lexus dealer refer a customer to an independent shop? This Lexus dealer is such a joke. I reluctantly left the car there to diagnose my erroneously shifting transmission and malfunctioning a/c, along with an oil change and fog light bulb swap. Had to ask em for a loaner too. Looking forward to seeing how many thousands of dollars they'll tell me is required to fix the tranny.