Stu

I like Yokohama tires, and found them to be just every bit as good as the Michelins, and $200 cheaper on a set of 4.

Everyone here seems to favour the Michelin Primacy tires for the LS, so you are doing things your way, which is good.
I bet you'll be happy with the tires and the money you saved.

abs

Well, I've been researching and researching and researching. I prefer to make decisions based on facts rather than speculation or opinion. Bottom line: TireRack publishes the results of their tire tests on their web site which has allowed me to create a little spreadsheet comparing the performance of a range of tires I have been considering. Before anyone starts to flame me about this, I do realize there may be differences test to test based on temperature, track conditions, the driver of the car, or even the test car and tire size itself. HOWEVER, in trying to come to some reasonable determination of which tires are better versus worse performers from a pure stats standpoint, this is the best thing I've found. Of particular interest is the fact that wet and dry braking times as well as wet and dry skid pad performance are in some cases substantially better with three season / summer tires. The Michelin Primacy MXV4 tire scored particularly badly out of the entire bunch in stopping times and overall slalom. The RE960AS I was considering was not nearly as good as I imagined based on the reviews I had read. The Continental DSW performed shockingly well for an all-season tire, scoring nearly as well or in some cases as well as the summer tires, across the board. Since I am going to be running dedicated snows, I've decided to go with one of the dedicated summer tires . . . Most likely the Continental DW.

I hope this may help some other board members when the time comes to consider new shoes for their own LS430 . . .

Cheers,

Andrew

Stu

abs, I agree with your thinking only if you are looking for a high grip, high performance tires.

However, ALL these "performance" type tires make more noise, are harsher riding and will wear out much faster, and are always more expensive.

No tire can deliver it all .....

Jabberwock

abs - thanks for the data - nicely done. Every piece of new info helps others make better choices per their priorities.

caddyowner

Check and see if you can get the Michelin Pilot Exalto in the size you need. That tire was designed for premium touring cars - comfort and acceptable performance. However, I suspect it may not be available in many sizes larger than 16". I was pleased with the Exaltos on my Allante.

abs

Hi Stu - I currently have the Goodyear RSA's on the OEM 18" rim - this is generally considered a poor performing and noisy tire. I do think that most of the high performance tires will be both quieter and much better performing than this Goodyear model. I am planning on the Continental DW which has a soft sidewall and is said to have a very smooth and quiet ride by all accounts.

Also, from reading on other messages boards - BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, it is clear to me that some folks are able to get 30k on some very high performance tires. It has a lot to do with driving style as well as suspension setup/alignment. In any case, being able to stop 30 feet sooner in wet conditions (MXV4 vs. almost any 3 season tire on my list), is a safety issue and by far outweighs any concerns about tire longevity IMHO.

Hi Caddyowner - Unfortunately I don't think the Pilot Exalto is available in the 245/45/18 size . . . Thanks for the recommendation.

Andrew

Stu

I just bought 4 of these in 225 55 18 and they are a big improvement over old bald tires with two nails, lol. They are very quiet and smooth ....

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....num=255TR8H727

jsdds

Influence of 245/45/18 OEM wheels, vs 17" (16), in selecting tires for quiet ride? Are larger rims a handicap for treadlife and/or quiet ride?
Will probably purchase Primacy MXV4 for 2005 LS 430 based on this forum.

abs

jsdds - An 18" rim will usually ride a little firmer than a 17" rim assuming the same overall wheel height because there is less sidewall and therefore less of an air cushion. Less sidewall usually also means less compliance over bumps. Having said that, tire design can play a very important role. As an example, the subjective feedback I've read about the two new Continental tires (the DW and the DWS) is that they both have relatively soft sidewalls and, even with low profile implementations (like our 18" rims have with a 45 aspect ratio), therefore deliver a very smooth, comfortable and compliant ride. This is to such a degree that some people have disliked the tires for not giving enough "road feel" or "on center feel" both of which are often attributed to a firmer sidewall design. For these tires, I have read subjective reviews where people upsized their rims to a +1 (i.e. from an 18" to a 19" with a commensurately lower profile such as from a 45 to a 40) but then installed the Continental tire and claimed they experienced a more comfortable and compliant ride than before with the smaller rim! Tire construction and design is one of the most important factors determining overall ride quality and noise.

If you haven't done so already, I highly recommend you download the Excel spreadsheet I posted earlier in this thread. I know that the MXV4 is a decent riding tire because I had it on my last car (Cadillac Deville). It does generate some fairly loud road noise over certain road types and this fact has been widely acknowledged. At the time, I got a good deal on them from Costco and assumed, wrongly, that Michelin would have a top notch tire. However, when I think about tires now I prioritize the safety factor above all else. Is the tire going to respond well and give me the traction I need during an evasive maneuver to avoid an accident or hitting an animal? Likewise, traction levels can can be especially important in wet weather. Just a couple of quick facts comparing two different tires, both with data from TireRack and included in my spreadsheet:

Michelin MXV4:

Wet Braking Distance from 50mph: 110.9 feet
Wet Lateral G-Force: .72g
Dry Braking from 50mph: 91.1 feet

Continental DWS:

Wet Braking Distance from 50mph: 85.9 feet
Wet Lateral G-Force: .89g
Dry Braking from 50mph: 88.4

I think everyone here would agree that being able to stop a full 24 feet sooner in wet conditions with the DWS tire is a huge advantage - this could be the difference between a very severe accident and avoiding an accident entirely. Likewise, the difference in lateral grip from .72 to .89 is very significant and could easily mean the difference between fishtailing and loosing control around a turn (and perhaps hitting a tree or worse) and not. I'm not trying to scare anyone, just pointing out that not all tires are the same and just because Michelin is a brand that people "trust" or that it has great marketing ads on TV doesn't mean that is the tire one should run out and buy. I can't give any subjective feedback on the DWS tire as I've never ridden on one, but if I wanted an all season tire, looking at these statistics, I find extremely difficult to recommend that anyone buy that Michelin tire. If one wanted to stay with the Michelin brand for some reason, it looks like the Pilot A/S+ would be a much better choice from a measured performance standpoint than the Primacy MXV4 and that tire (the A/S+) has received extremely positive subjective reviews for "feel", "noise" and "ride quality" time and again.

The DWS does appear to offer a major step change in overall grip/handling relative to any other all season tire I investigated on Tire Rack and if I wanted an all season tire, this is the one I would buy.

I asked my dealer to order me up the Continental DW 3 season tires today. Here is an excellent review of quite a few high performance 3 season tires, (guess which one won ):

http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticle...ide/index.html

Hope this helps,

Andrew

JimsGX

ABS,

I can attest to the merits of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires... My 430 is very responsive with them on. Not quite as quiet as the Primacy's, but performance wise, they're in a different class. They're Y rated (186mph). I have Primacy's on two other Lexus' that I own so I'm very familiar with the characteristics of both tires.

I've had good luck with Michelin's in general (except with MXV4 S8's). I think the quality of the product in general is better than some others and they tend to hold a balance better than some other brands.

abs

JimsGX -

Yes I agree with these points and concur that Michelin has very good quality control. The Primacy MXV4 isn't a terrible tire, but folks should buy that tire with eyes wide open. In particular, for driving in wet conditions, there are better options.

Andrew

abs

Just wanted to quickly update this thread. I've been running the Continental DW tires on my car for a few days now, perhaps 150 miles so far. The first 20 miles were somewhat noisy, more than I had anticipated, HOWEVER, since then the tires have become steadily quieter to the point where they are actually quieter than the Goodyear RSAs which were on the car previously. Also, these tires have an extremely compliant ride, also more so than the RSAs had. They are VERY smooth riding. Lastly, the grip is excellent. I've taken some turns at much higher speeds and with confidence than I've ever been able to do with the RSAs on the car. The ONLY complaints I have with these tires so far are that they seem to flat spot a little overnight and have a little vibration for the first few miles of day and that they were slightly fidgety at highway speeds until I dropped the pressure down to OEM spec (the dealer overfilled the tires to 36psi instead of 33psi).

These are not winter tires. Other than that, highly recommended.

Andrew

StanVanDam

I have 10 months/6000kms on my Michelin Primacy MXV4s. I find they are very smooth and quiet, especially over brand new pavement.

The only problem I found so far was one occasion with wet traction. During some moderate rain, I was turning left from a stop at an intersection (no traffic in any direction) and I was not heavy on the pedal. The tires lost traction and the rear end swung out a little bit before the traction control kicked in and beeped.

Since the tires lost traction on that little to moderate amount of rain with a low amount of torque applied around a turn, I have lost confidence in their wet weather handling and drive extra-careful when it's wet out.

I normally drive quite smooth and lightly and don't pull enough G forces in wet weather to know if the wet handling capabilities are good OR bad.

I definitely would not recommend the Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires if you drive fast or moderately aggressive in wet weather with a heavy rear-wheel drive car.

The Continental DWS looks like a better choice if you do a lot of wet weather driving.

abs

Although a different vehicle, my wife had an accident last winter in the 1998 Deville running on the MXV4 tires. Traffic had come to a stop on the highway the morning after a snow storm that put a few inches ont the ground. Conditions were slushy. She hit the brakes but was not able to stop in time and hit the car in front of her. I am positive the DWS tires would have been better in these conditions than the MXV4s.

The DW tires will do extremely well in wet as will the DWS based on the test scores I've seen. Also the survey results on TireRack and anecdotal reports I've read on various message boards across the internet.

Lastly, wanted to update that now, having driven a few more miles on the DW tires, they have become much quieter than the old RSA tires, especially noticeable at highway speeds. Also, the ride is MORE comfortable on the DW tires. I've also noticed that I only experienced the vibration one morning so far - may have been part of the tire break-in. I'll report again soon. Overall, very impressed with these tires so far.

Andrew

elite7

I would not recommend the Michelin MXV4 either.

Going from the OEM Dunlop 4000's to the brand new MXV4+ i noticed right away the MXV4+ was a lot harder. This was on my LS400. On the LS430 i used to have Dunlop SP Sport 5000's which were made in Japan . They had about 42,000 miles on them and had about 2-3000 miles left on them.

Continental from what i hear is supposed to be decent. I never tried it.




The guy at costco was telling me they stop 20 feet quicker than any other tire.

I used to have the MXV4+ and was glad to replace them once the time came.

After that experience i am done with buying Michelin. They were not cheap tires either.

I went back to OEM on the vehicle which was Dunlop and the car behaves a lot better. Much smoother, better in the rain, quieter, and better handling.

I never really used Continental, but ive found Dunlops or Bridgestones work great for me.