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It's certainly a bit less than the dealer - the local one(Lexus of Concord) charges $900 just for the timing belt without water pump. The Aisin kit is probably the best you can get outside of sourcing all OEM parts, it is OEM - the water pump is slightly different than the one Toyota now suppliers from the parts counter. Mitsuboshi belt, Koyo/NTN/Nachi idlers and NTN tensioner. Just make sure the shop knows what they are doing - I was about to send my parents to a highly-respected Japanese indie, they said they don't like working on higher end Lexii.
Make sure they use the right coolant(Toyota pink SLLC, Zerex Asian Vehicle will also work) and replace the drive belt - Gates, Bando or OEM belt only.
The coolant is interesting, I found all kinds of red vs. pink threads....and I found one Toyota tech who only uses red coolant only, in his 2006 LS430.....somehow claimed this is based upon experience. Pink costs double (Toyota, not Zerex/Valvoline), yet after the first drain, does not provide double the interval (think it's 3 yr./50 vs. 2 yr./30--is there any science at all behind all this) so sometimes I wonder, with margins being thin, if a "job" goes for $750, it would seem an indie would prefer to use red......forget which year was the dividing line, was it 04 or 05 that pink came from the factory....also came across do not use pink in older cars, something like 1997 and older? Then a camp says that tells you something...lots of debate like oil....
You can go to BITOG and geek over over this for hours.
Toyota switched over in 2004 to SLLC pink coolant - starting with 2004 LS and Prius. Also the same time ATF WS was being phased in. The pink formula is a pOAT hybrid - using phosphate along with an organic acid for cooling system protection, red used mostly phosphate and an unknown inorganic acid salt. CCI makes the Toyota stuff and rumor has it that it uses sebacate as the organic acid. The Zerex label shows benzoate, and in theory they should be compatible.The pink stuff has caused a rash of water pump leaks, and Toyota did revise them to handle the pink stuff better, my worry with the Aisin kits is that the seal might be the old version - this explains why some techs and mechanics use the red stuff instead - it's good stuff.
I have a suspicion that CCI also bottles the Asian formulas for Zerex/Valvoline, there's a tell-tale 2/3 digit code on the lower corners of the Zerex Asian labels, CCI also does this with their OEM coolants as well as Peak and O'Reilly's coolants. Zerex was an BASF brand until they sold it to Valvoline - they still are using BASF concentrates and using Glysantin's code names(G-05/G-40/G-48, and they also supply service coolant for the Germans, Ford/Chrysler and Tesla).
You can go to BITOG and geek over over this for hours.
Toyota switched over in 2004 to SLLC pink coolant - starting with 2004 LS and Prius. Also the same time ATF WS was being phased in. The pink formula is a pOAT hybrid - using phosphate along with an organic acid for cooling system protection, red used mostly phosphate and an unknown inorganic acid salt. CCI makes the Toyota stuff and rumor has it that it uses sebacate as the organic acid. The Zerex label shows benzoate, and in theory they should be compatible.The pink stuff has caused a rash of water pump leaks, and Toyota did revise them to handle the pink stuff better, my worry with the Aisin kits is that the seal might be the old version - this explains why some techs and mechanics use the red stuff instead - it's good stuff.
I have a suspicion that CCI also bottles the Asian formulas for Zerex/Valvoline, there's a tell-tale 2/3 digit code on the lower corners of the Zerex Asian labels, CCI also does this with their OEM coolants as well as Peak and O'Reilly's coolants. Zerex was an BASF brand until they sold it to Valvoline - they still are using BASF concentrates and using Glysantin's code names(G-05/G-40/G-48, and they also supply service coolant for the Germans, Ford/Chrysler and Tesla).
Isn't it rather fascinating, because this is all business. I was floored when I found out genuine Toyota coolant is around $26/gal., 50/50 only. Floored! This implies $52/gal for 100%. Thankful that Walmart sells the SLLC2 approved 50/50 stuff for $8.xx.
It seems to be business related. A person just got a brand new Galaxy S7 from work, for $29.99, because corporate still has old plans with upgrades. I go to eBay to find the same, best I can find is $419. Same device, both are brand new. How is the delta accounted for?
Seems to me, red is safe, as long as it's changed every 2 years??
Jim, If I were in your shoes I wouldn't bother changing the belt either. Sounds like you've got plenty of cars around if this one ever breaks. Typically when a timing belt breaks its because of an issue with one of the bearings in the components that its driving, water pump, tensioner, idler, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the timing system is designed to last at least twice what they recommended change interval is anyway...
Agree the Lexus belt change recommend is ultra conservative.These cars are sold all over the world. There's extreme heat, cold, humidity, etc so 90k seems like a way to deal with all possible conditions. However age is factor. I decided to replace (at 90k) because it's an old car with an interference engine. Peace of mind.
LOL I know one owner that's got 125 (didn't know what a timing belt was). Talked to a possible buyer that's got 150+ (my husband replaced the belt that drives PS, etc that what's you mean right?)
I purchased my '04 LS430 last week. It has 51,383 miles on it. Well within the 90K belt replacement spec. But 4 years PAST the time spec of 108 months to replacement, if still on the original belt.
In going through the papers I found a "Water Pump Recall" for the '04. I assume it was done because a search shows NO outstanding recalls on my car. But I don't have a date for when it was done and there is no date on the recall notice.
If the water pump recall (impeller swells up and drags on housing) included the timing belt, as it should since the dragging water pump would put excessive strain on the belt, then my belt was replaced when the water pump recall was done. If the belt would not have been replaced with the water pump recall then this detective story is done here.
Now based on the above evidence, if the belt was replaced with the water pump recall and if the recall took place after 2008 then my belt is still under all replace requirements. But I dont know how to find out WHEN the water pump recall was actual done because the search only states that all recalls are complied with, not what or when. Nor do I know if the recall included the timing belt.
I purchased my '04 LS430 last week. It has 51,383 miles on it. Well within the 90K belt replacement spec. But 4 years PAST the time spec of 108 months to replacement, if still on the original belt.
In going through the papers I found a "Water Pump Recall" for the '04. I assume it was done because a search shows NO outstanding recalls on my car. But I don't have a date for when it was done and there is no date on the recall notice.
If the water pump recall (impeller swells up and drags on housing) included the timing belt, as it should since the dragging water pump would put excessive strain on the belt, then my belt was replaced when the water pump recall was done. If the belt would not have been replaced with the water pump recall then this detective story is done here.
Now based on the above evidence, if the belt was replaced with the water pump recall and if the recall took place after 2008 then my belt is still under all replace requirements. But I dont know how to find out WHEN the water pump recall was actual done because the search only states that all recalls are complied with, not what or when. Nor do I know if the recall included the timing belt.
Anyone know..??..??
Call up the dealer that performed the service and ask them. I would think that they have a little more detail than what's available to us...
I purchased my '04 LS430 last week. It has 51,383 miles on it. Well within the 90K belt replacement spec. But 4 years PAST the time spec of 108 months to replacement, if still on the original belt.
In going through the papers I found a "Water Pump Recall" for the '04. I assume it was done because a search shows NO outstanding recalls on my car. But I don't have a date for when it was done and there is no date on the recall notice.
If the water pump recall (impeller swells up and drags on housing) included the timing belt, as it should since the dragging water pump would put excessive strain on the belt, then my belt was replaced when the water pump recall was done. If the belt would not have been replaced with the water pump recall then this detective story is done here.
Now based on the above evidence, if the belt was replaced with the water pump recall and if the recall took place after 2008 then my belt is still under all replace requirements. But I dont know how to find out WHEN the water pump recall was actual done because the search only states that all recalls are complied with, not what or when. Nor do I know if the recall included the timing belt.
Anyone know..??..??
Have an 04. Mine was full dealer service. No mention of a water pump recall. Did a Google. All I can find are recalls are for 1) automatic transmission and 2) fuel pump. On the fuel pump, it was on cars manufactured from 7/29/03 - 3/9/04. Hope this helps.
Yes, that helps. I called Lexus and they said they can not find a water pump recall so I guess what I was reading was "fake news"...LOL...??
I did ask them the cost of a belt replacement and they said..."About $775 to $800 parts and labor" so I guess it will get done next time I am in Houston.
02legend,
The noise you are hearing is from bent valves. An adjustment will do nothing to fix it unless their plan is to replace the head. The belt being backwards was just a fabrication on the techs part and will not cause what you are experiencing. The pulleys are very clearly marked right and left.
See the "R" and "L" stamped on their faces?
I think they tried to start the engine without pulling the pin on the tensioner to release it. This is why only one head is effected. When they tried to reinstall the tensioner that's when the bolt got stripped. After having both heads off of my LS I would recommend that the shop buy you a good used engine with a warranty and have then pay someone else to install it.
I'm surprised I am just now seeing your post. I do believe it is valves as well as it's the only thing that makes sense. I was just going to post an "update" if you want to call it that. I found out why I was not getting many responses from my buddy. He was involved in a car accident and was at the hospital. He sent me a photo of his car this morning and said he was hurting but would be going to the office and contacting the dealer. I haven't heard anything back since. I am not in a rush as I am not scheduled to return home until the 21st and the dealer said it is not an issue to keep the car there. I will be making contact tomorrow with both entities and push to get a plan of action in order. The dealer at this point is awaiting for me to give them the go ahead to pull off the valve cover, take out the cams and check the valves.
The dealer won't be able to tell anything from pulling the valve cover and cams. I wouldn't authorize that unless someone else is paying for it. The dealer needs to do at least a compression test and preferably a leak down test to determine bent valves. These tests are cheaper labor wise and will tell you what you need to know. I know you are in a bad spot but just realize that any work the dealer does you are on the hook paying for. I hope you buddy is ok after his wreck.
Just curious, but what do you mean you were surprised to just now be reading my post?
The dealer won't be able to tell anything from pulling the valve cover and cams. I wouldn't authorize that unless someone else is paying for it. The dealer needs to do at least a compression test and preferably a leak down test to determine bent valves. These tests are cheaper labor wise and will tell you what you need to know. I know you are in a bad spot but just realize that any work the dealer does you are on the hook paying for. I hope you buddy is ok after his wreck.
Just curious, but what do you mean you were surprised to just now be reading my post?
The dealer did do a compression and leak down test and said that everything was right/good. This is where my guy is saying how is a valve damaged if it passed the compression/leak down test (doesn't make sense).
I have it setup to get instant notifications when someone replies to this post and for some reason I did not get most of them today.
Yes, that helps. I called Lexus and they said they can not find a water pump recall so I guess what I was reading was "fake news"...LOL...??
I did ask them the cost of a belt replacement and they said..."About $775 to $800 parts and labor" so I guess it will get done next time I am in Houston.
When the dealer quoted me $1,400, I sat in the SA's office. Never seen that before, where advisors have their own offices? lol I then observed a customer holding hands with a female SA, and introducing her to his mother in the lounge? Can't make this up!
But I got the feeling they were no better than BMW, meaning all they do is use fancy terms but don't know what they're actually talking about. He said if I don't do the job, based on age, my car could be done sometime in the near future, and that wouldn't be good. We can put you in a loaner (I glance over and see a line of RX's? Nein danke!) for the weekend. C'mon, BMW does it for a $60 job, that's not gonna sway me to do it and open up my Citi Double MasterCard. I felt confident I could wait and was going to do it next year, but let the indie do it. So if $800 is for the belt and pump, it's a steal based on my quote from Lexus. But while they're in there I would want the tensioner, idler, and tensioner pulley (it's all opened up already), plus the serpentine, my $1,400 price did not include any of those. They also wanted $1,400 or so for the lower control arm bushings at this visit. YIKES please stick to the coolant and brake fluid that I requested!
And oddly, if you look at the service history on my '06, the fuel pump was done under warranty as customer complained of long cranks. I feel this car does in fact crank longer than most cars. But again, with a car this old, I'm glad it does not have direct injection (more stuff to worry about incl. intake valve cleanings).
With 02Legend, indie shop internally pays dealership to fix the car, or face small claims, that's my take. No more let me talk to the tech stuff, send me an email that you are paying for everything to date....there comes a time where we all have to stop being nice, even though it's not inherent in our nature. Don't have to be mean about it, just firm....my .02....
Even though the narrator is exaggerating everything, the owner starts it up. Doesn't the motor sound a bit loud maybe thanks to the camera, but normal? And this vehicle had only 48k.
Been a busy weekend. I did speak with the dealer very briefly on Friday about my car, as well as my buddy. To start off, my buddy actually advised me to let the dealer do any/all work and he would take care of the bill. He felt that they would have the best means to solve the problem. Back to the bolts on the tensioner, my buddy was not aware that the tech drilled out the holes and re-tapped them for bigger bolts. He asked his tech about it, who admitted to doing it as per him the bolts were cross threading when going back in and damaged threads. My buddy was not happy that he was not told, especially since he relies on word of mouth and good service. Not to mention he knows how I am with my vehicles and that a customer, myself or anyone else should not have to find out that this was done from any other shop, he was pissed. At this point the dealer stopped work, or so I thought. I talked with the diagnostics/tech specialist working on my car and he told me there was valve lash on two valves when he checked (near the rear of the motor), pretty much where the noise is. Since I had not given any word about the tensioner yet, the motor was not put back together. I did ask if the valves were adjusted, what guarantee was there that the noise would now be gone? He could not answer the question, as in he could not give me that guarantee. I did push the issue of already spending the money on the fuel injector and the noise did not go away, and now all this money to check valves.
Thursday, before all of this conversing took place I did send an email the the service advisor I have been dealing with. Just updating on the information and to reiterate about the money already spent on a part and labor that did not fix the issue. I think after bringing this up more than a few times and wanting reassurance that the problem would be fixed, the dealer is not sure what the problem is now. I guess the good thing is they originally quoted just over $1200 to pull apart the passenger side to check the valves, but I got an email total for a price of $463.98 for the time in.
Here is the email I got today, tried calling to talk to the service advisor but did not have any luck.
Hey Nathan. I understand completely. We feel you should take the car back to the the facility that performed the timing belt work. At this stage we would be spending money on repairs that we cannot guarantee would make a difference. You should not have to be responsible for paying to get your car repaired. They should step up and make this situation correct. At this stage your bill is $463.98 which is way less than the time we have in it. We do not feel the valve lash is excessive enough to make the noise that is in the engine.
I know it's a long read. I am going to call the dealership tomorrow to get any final information. I plan on having my buddy pick up the car and fix the problem prior to me returning back home.
Well, plot thickens. Got a call from the dealer very early this morning. After all of the time the dealer put in and checking/adjusting the valves that supposedly had lash, the noise is still there. However, at this point they are recommending I take the car back to my buddies shop and have them figure out the problem as it started after their work. The service advisor did say there was NO bill at this time, he cleared it out and said they just want to help get it fixed by not racking up a bill for labor and not by throwing parts at the car.
04-05-17, 09:44 AM
