joined the timing belt club at ~ 87k
02-26-17, 06:57 PM
#61
It does matter. There's only one (correct) way to put the timing belt on.
Yes, of course the engineers did. That's why the belt is marked "R-CAM" and "L-CAM." The R-CAM is the passenger side, not the driver's side. That is likely where the error was made by 02Legend's tech.
Yes, of course the engineers did. That's why the belt is marked "R-CAM" and "L-CAM." The R-CAM is the passenger side, not the driver's side. That is likely where the error was made by 02Legend's tech.
02-26-17, 08:12 PM
#62
Pole Position
Hang in there and don't sweat it, especially while traveling. It's definitely repairable.
02-27-17, 12:32 PM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Here is a documented case, tutorial, where the belt is totally on backwards. The user has R and L mistaken, and his arrows are lined up, but facing the wrong way, pointing to the back.
He said nothing was wrong, and acknowledges it's backwards. Again, my hunch is the arrows serve the purpose of making sure the number of teeth are correct i.e. spacing. Because it's being installed in a slackened state, how else would one know how to put it on? But in my analogy, if each mark is 17 teeth off, it would still be the same...my .02. I know, there's no reason to put it on backwards, but I'm trying to establish that it doesn't seem like it makes any difference, unless the teeth were wrong....
Again I hope maybe there is nothing wrong with 02Legend's car....
https://www.yotatech.com/f28/tundra-...l#post51580474
He said nothing was wrong, and acknowledges it's backwards. Again, my hunch is the arrows serve the purpose of making sure the number of teeth are correct i.e. spacing. Because it's being installed in a slackened state, how else would one know how to put it on? But in my analogy, if each mark is 17 teeth off, it would still be the same...my .02. I know, there's no reason to put it on backwards, but I'm trying to establish that it doesn't seem like it makes any difference, unless the teeth were wrong....
Again I hope maybe there is nothing wrong with 02Legend's car....
https://www.yotatech.com/f28/tundra-...l#post51580474
02-27-17, 02:41 PM
#64
Here is a documented case, tutorial, where the belt is totally on backwards. The user has R and L mistaken, and his arrows are lined up, but facing the wrong way, pointing to the back.
He said nothing was wrong, and acknowledges it's backwards. Again, my hunch is the arrows serve the purpose of making sure the number of teeth are correct i.e. spacing. Because it's being installed in a slackened state, how else would one know how to put it on? But in my analogy, if each mark is 17 teeth off, it would still be the same...my .02. I know, there's no reason to put it on backwards, but I'm trying to establish that it doesn't seem like it makes any difference, unless the teeth were wrong....
Again I hope maybe there is nothing wrong with 02Legend's car....
https://www.yotatech.com/f28/tundra-...l#post51580474
He said nothing was wrong, and acknowledges it's backwards. Again, my hunch is the arrows serve the purpose of making sure the number of teeth are correct i.e. spacing. Because it's being installed in a slackened state, how else would one know how to put it on? But in my analogy, if each mark is 17 teeth off, it would still be the same...my .02. I know, there's no reason to put it on backwards, but I'm trying to establish that it doesn't seem like it makes any difference, unless the teeth were wrong....
Again I hope maybe there is nothing wrong with 02Legend's car....
https://www.yotatech.com/f28/tundra-...l#post51580474
02-27-17, 06:18 PM
#65
Pole Position
Here is a documented case, tutorial, where the belt is totally on backwards. The user has R and L mistaken, and his arrows are lined up, but facing the wrong way, pointing to the back.
He said nothing was wrong, and acknowledges it's backwards. Again, my hunch is the arrows serve the purpose of making sure the number of teeth are correct i.e. spacing. Because it's being installed in a slackened state, how else would one know how to put it on? But in my analogy, if each mark is 17 teeth off, it would still be the same...my .02. I know, there's no reason to put it on backwards, but I'm trying to establish that it doesn't seem like it makes any difference, unless the teeth were wrong....
He said nothing was wrong, and acknowledges it's backwards. Again, my hunch is the arrows serve the purpose of making sure the number of teeth are correct i.e. spacing. Because it's being installed in a slackened state, how else would one know how to put it on? But in my analogy, if each mark is 17 teeth off, it would still be the same...my .02. I know, there's no reason to put it on backwards, but I'm trying to establish that it doesn't seem like it makes any difference, unless the teeth were wrong....
The provided link is a 2UZ engine (4.7 L), not the 3UZ. There's one pic in that thread which demonstrates that a backward installed timing belt would result in incorrect valve sequence. Note where the crankshaft belt timing mark is at 5 o'clock with the belt ostensibly lined up with each of the 3 timing marks. Now imagine flipping the belt. The cams would not move to line up the cam marks but the crank would have to move to 7 o'clock to line up the crank timing mark. That shows there are two (2) different timing results using the belt correctly and backwards.
Read the many good threads with specifics regarding where the crank and cams must be when the belt is removed and replaced - since you don't want the cams to be under stress from the valves in open position and move while trying to install the new belt.
Why did 02Legend's tech who knew how to do timing belts say the belt was backwards? Because he knew that was a problem. Why is the belt marked R, L and Crank? Because it's installed correctly only one way.
Last edited by Tom57; 02-27-17 at 06:34 PM.
02-27-17, 07:10 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Anyone can install a timing belt backwards and move the cams and crankshaft to get all the marks to line up ... but that doesn't mean it's installed correctly. Faulty information drawn from a different engine isn't reliable.
The provided link is a 2UZ engine (4.7 L), not the 3UZ. There's one pic in that thread which demonstrates that a backward installed timing belt would result in incorrect valve sequence. Note where the crankshaft belt timing mark is at 5 o'clock with the belt ostensibly lined up with each of the 3 timing marks. Now imagine flipping the belt. The cams would not move to line up the cam marks but the crank would have to move to 7 o'clock to line up the crank timing mark. That shows there are two (2) different timing results using the belt correctly and backwards.
Read the many good threads with specifics regarding where the crank and cams must be when the belt is removed and replaced - since you don't want the cams to be under stress from the valves in open position and move while trying to install the new belt.
Why did 02Legend's tech who knew how to do timing belts say the belt was backwards? Because he knew that was a problem. Why is the belt marked R, L and Crank? Because it's installed correctly only one way.
The provided link is a 2UZ engine (4.7 L), not the 3UZ. There's one pic in that thread which demonstrates that a backward installed timing belt would result in incorrect valve sequence. Note where the crankshaft belt timing mark is at 5 o'clock with the belt ostensibly lined up with each of the 3 timing marks. Now imagine flipping the belt. The cams would not move to line up the cam marks but the crank would have to move to 7 o'clock to line up the crank timing mark. That shows there are two (2) different timing results using the belt correctly and backwards.
Read the many good threads with specifics regarding where the crank and cams must be when the belt is removed and replaced - since you don't want the cams to be under stress from the valves in open position and move while trying to install the new belt.
Why did 02Legend's tech who knew how to do timing belts say the belt was backwards? Because he knew that was a problem. Why is the belt marked R, L and Crank? Because it's installed correctly only one way.
i'm going to count the teeth to see if the marks are symmetrical. Not in the next few days, though.
the thing about 02's job, did the shop button everything up, start it up, and get timing advanced, and then open it up again? That is a ton of labor. Or, did they start it up, get timing advanced, and the code went away? When did they decide that the belt was backwards? What did they think the incorrect orientation did? I have changed many serpentine belts before, and I never really gave it any thought. And as mentioned, if I went by the word Toyota on the 3uz belt, it would face me, and the arrows would point back. The belt would now be backwards. That's counterintuitive on Toyota or Mitsuboshi's part.
03-02-17, 07:47 AM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I believe an indie is about $700-$850 for the timing belt and water pump "job"....I would ask them if they're going to include the tensioner pulley, idler, and tensioner, and also pink Toyota coolant (forget what year, 05+?), and if they have ever done the 3UZ before, to me it makes sense to do the serpentine belt too since there is no add'l labor, but I was told there's really no need to do the thermostat or hoses unless there is a problem, which they would tell me if they come across it...no need to learn on our cars....I'd rather hear, no we haven't done your car before, and go elsewhere, than to be told, your car won't be ready today, we need another day (something is wrong at this point, I think it's a 3-4 hr. job by a specialist)....
03-23-17, 07:33 PM
#70
Not sure if anyone is still checking back in here, but I am taking my car to the dealer on Saturday and hoping they can "actually" diagnose the issue on Monday and possible have it fixed. Otherwise, my car will be sitting at the dealer for almost a month (they agreed to let me leave it there). I am flying back home tomorrow and just found out my company needs me to fly back out A.S.A.P to save grace with a customer. So, hopefully I will know by Monday, if not, during next week and get it fixed. I will update when I hear from the dealer.
03-25-17, 01:40 PM
#72
It has been a pain. Good thing is I am very patient. Dropped the car off at the dealer earlier and was told it was going to take priority Monday morning as the service guy wants to have the car fixed and not sitting there for 20+ days. I did ask that they just double check the timing belt and timing, as well as the rear passenger spark plug since the plugs were changed.
03-28-17, 08:54 AM
#73
Just got a voicemail from the dealer. They did a leak down and compression test. Said all was good, but said that I would need valve(s) adjusted. Got a lovely quote of $2400. Don't know if that's high/low or about average. Trying to get a hold of another dealer in my area for a second quote.
03-28-17, 08:59 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Just got a voicemail from the dealer. They did a leak down and compression test. Said all was good, but said that I would need valve(s) adjusted. Got a lovely quote of $2400. Don't know if that's high/low or about average. Trying to get a hold of another dealer in my area for a second quote.
03-28-17, 09:03 AM
#75
Good to hear that (all was good except)....I wonder how necessary it is, my Maxima has manually adjusted valves and I never did it in over 240k. But if you were to do it, can we apply the indie rule that it should cost maybe about 55% of the dealer quote....so if you really want to do this work, would it be maybe $1300 at an indie? Seems like too much to spend on an older car, I mean we all consider the timing belt to be a major job even at $700-$850, so I'd be hesitant to spend any more than that on our older cars....my .02