tallcaguy

I would find it hard to go back to the shop where the problems started. Did the valves make noise before?

Johnhav430

Is the issue noise, since compression is fine? Is any issue with the TB a done deal? Again, I don't believe it makes any difference which direction the arrows are facing, as long as the tooth count is exact, but this is coming from someone who has not performed the job. Just that I haven't seen any reliable answer on what the difference is, besides it just is, and I have seen a reliable case of where someone openly said he put it in backwards and had no issues, although it is unxplainable that in the pic the crank seemed off. I thought with my Nissan, the valve adjustment would come up where someone said the motor was making more noise than they would like....I believe the cams have to come out at least with the Maxima, it would get shimmed, and it wouldn't be cheap even though it's a V6 (still dohc)....again I never even considered doing it in 240k and didn't seem to suffer as a result...

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

No noise prior, only after the timing belt was done. I don't plan on having his shop do the work. Waiting for another dealer to call me back so I can get a quote from them.

Johnhav430

Good question....also, remember, dealers are always looking for big ticket jobs, and they aren't as much as the indies are, where they discern between what you want, and what you need.....

This would be my acid test. What were the measurements? There is still a decent amount of labor to measure the clearances, and much more labor to do anything about it. If they say, you just need it, we didn't write down the measurements, SEE YA!

tallcaguy

There's still the question of possible valve damage causing the noise. No noise before? Why should valves need to be adjusted after a TB replacement?

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

Glad you brought up the belt being backwards again. I did ask the diagnostics guy working on my car about that. He said as long as everything lined up then there would be no issue with the belt being on backwards.

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

That's an answer I can't seem to get. That's my first thought, why would valves need adjusted after a timing belt job unless there was an issue.

tallcaguy

Yes maybe the backwards belt works but shows a lack of experience and no attention to detail. It sounds like the shop did something wrong here. It is an interference engine. Someone does the TB and now there's valve train noise. This is a one day job. How long did they take?

Johnhav430

It sounds silly, but it has to do with a person mixing up that the driver side is the left side of the car, even if they are facing the car and their right is the driver's side....they take the belt and put the R CAM marking on the driver's side, and then line up L CAM on the passenger's side. Still, everything lines up. So now it gets into is there any difference physically, when you flip the belt, and there is not....and one would think that if it mattered, things would be keyed to prevent human error....just making it up, maybe the notch starts out wide, then gets narrower, making it impossible to reverse it and still have it fit...

tallcaguy

Give the shop an LS that runs fine. No valve noise. They do the TB. Belt install is incorrect (see Tom 2/27).
Now the valves need to be adjusted? Why didn't they mention this or give a quote?

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

This is where I am getting irritated. They were trying to say that OCV was a little noisy, but quiets down when warm. I also told him that the noise does not get quiet/quieter when the motor is warm, mentioned this to him before and for some reason he sounded shocked when I told him again. This was when I first got my car back. The statement didn't make sense, as I had a GS430 with the same motor and had to change out the OCV's before and am familiar with some symptoms they exhibit when not working properly.

Johnhav430

At the end of the day, you know your car better than anyone....so if that noise has only been there since the timing belt job, then something did happen (meaning we can't pinpoint the cause and really don't have to--so many things come apart for the job itself), and it would irritate me as well. Honestly, I would be past the point where I felt the shop who did the timing belt is incompetent. Either they are going to adjust the valves, or, I say look, I don't trust you so you're going to a) refund me what I paid for the timing belt job b) pay for my valves to be adjusted--they can send your car to the dealership and cover it internally, meaning it doesn't cost them $2,400, it may cost < 50%, but they should pay.

If they won't make good, then BBB, Yelp, google, DMV, etc. Dunno why, but it seems every establishment starts out with a A+ rating at the BBB. If they get one complaint and do not resolve, it drops to C-, and establishments seem to care about the BBB whether accredited or not. This case is all of our worst nightmares, the last thing we want is to have our cars serviced and then to have a subsequent problem....good luck...

Tom57

Insisting that it doesn't matter which way the timing belt goes on when you haven't performed the job and your opinion is admittedly based upon only what you read in one post is pure idle speculation. Speculating on less important matters is fine, but this topic is the heart of the interference engine and everyone knows replacing the timing belt must be done correctly, or else. The timing belt has arrow marks for left and right cams and crank because it installs correctly, only one way. As stated above, the distance between each mark on the belt is critical. The cams and crank can always be rotated to line up the match marks on a backward installed belt. Doing that, of course, does not mean "everything lined up."

There is plenty of evidence posted by 02Legend that his belt was installed backwards. If it didn't matter which way the match marks on the belt were installed, why would 02's 2nd tech even say the belt was originally installed "backwards"? And why did he flip the belt and re-install it? If it didn't matter which way the belt was installed, why did the belt have arrows with L and R markings from the factory? Why does the manual say to hand turn the engine 2 full rotations on the crank to make sure no valve interference before starting up the engine?

The novice indie tech installed the belt backwards, turning the cams and crank to make the match marks "all line up." He then started the engine and heard a valve(s) hit a piston(s), even if only lightly. That bent a valve(s). The noise 02Legend hears is the damaged valve(s). They now tell 02Legend that they want to "adjust the valves" for $2,400. (Replacing a timing belt and tensioner correctly does not require any valve adjustment. I'm not aware that there is any valve lash which is adjustable on the 3UZ-FE. The hydraulic lifters compensate for that.) But the tech knows they need to tear down the upper engine and replace the bent valve(s), but they're not telling 02Legend that. Perhaps I just wrote what others are thinking as well, but none of us want to tell 02Legend this strong possibility.

I would take the LS to another shop and have them diagnose and fix the cause. Then take up the cost to repair with the original shop. Did you use a credit card for the original timing belt job? Then refuse payment through your credit card company. Also, many credit card companies offer various types of insurance coverage on purchases. Look into that. Finally, since the damage is fixable and relatively small dollars, you can always file a small claim court complaint. Be sure to get a written statement from the shop that fixes the damage, AND be sure they give you the damaged valve(s) for your Exhibit A.

Johnhav430

Don't quite agree. For example, doing an ABS job on a car successfully, doesn't mean I know everything about the job. It does imply that I should be able to repeat the job much more easily than you can, if you have not performed it. I know what I did, on my car. There may be someone else out there, who hasn't done the job, but has read materials that I did not. It's neither here nor there. When I do the timing belt on my car, I'll be putting the arrows facing forward, with L on the driver side, and R on the passenger side. But I can envision someone who is competent, getting careless, and putting it on backwards, still lining up the marks. 02 Legend stated that the dealer told him it didn't matter which way the belt was installed--that is, if the marks lined up.

edit p.s. I googled this topic and it's absolutely hilarious....do it if you want a laugh. There's really only one answer, but two sides of the debate, like what happens if you use 93 octane in a car designed for 87.....etc. To elaborate, you'll find people who state they did in fact technically reverse it, that their cars are running fine, and someone will insist the wear pattern will be different and eventually the motor will fail....sometimes we just need to take a step back and remember, it's a belt. The other thing, is in life, people do make mistakes. It's important to be accurate with what the consequences are, imho...

Johnhav430

This is what I would expect, from a physics perspective. How many serpentine belts has an average person here done in their lifetime? I actually have never given any thought to which way the brand name would face, I always assumed so that it reads properly when standing in front of the motor. But looking at a typical belt, there's no difference. With the timing belt, there are arrows, so a prudent person would likely decide which way the arrows should point, forward, or backwards....

edit: this doesn't let the original shop off the hook, plenty of what if's. What if they put it on with the arrows pointing forward, missed a tooth, got the error, panicked, now put it on backwards lined up. Anything could have happened, and the "backwards" just casts doubt on the overall job...